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Boa hybrids and python hybrids

Starsevol, I think you are making some faulty assumptions. First and foremost, I do like hybridizing and I do realize a need to find out as much as you can when hybridizing. Sadly, when mixing two different species together you are often dealing with phenotypes that neither snake had to begin with so the only way to learn is to dive in or explore the works of other hybridizers. I saw some beautiful morphs of corns and I was hooked and new I wanted to hybridize them. I didn't need to know everything to see the art that I see in so many morphs is something I wanted to be a part of. I also saw some beautiful sinacorns, corndurans, mexicorns, jungle corns, etc. and while I may not have the knowledge you have about the individual genetics of corns I knew it was something I wanted to get into as fast as I could within reason. Sure, I'm going to learn more by doing than by sitting around reading a book on morphs as I'm not as much interested in morphs as I am hybrids and not as much information is out there on that subject. Still, I know enough to know how to do test crosses and the like and to determine where my genes are coming from if that is your concern.
 
I'd like to address some of the things you said in your post to me. Humans are not hybrids...they are intermixes. DNA is homo erectus...you won't find anything else. There may be european etc, but that's not a hybrid. Base DNA and genetics is human, pure human. We're interbreeding mixes, not hybrids. Dog/jackal dog/wolf hybrids..yes we create them...but that doesn't mean they are good. Just because they are viable doesn't mean they are a good mix. I rescue dogs and train them. Hybrids are problems for the most part. I can point you to a multitude of rescues that handle wolf hybrids and deal with the issues of what that entails. The higher the percentage of canis lupis, the higher the chance of having behavioral issues. The dog acts like a wolf...but isn't.....it doesn't fit into the domestic canine world (Canis lupus familiaris) or wolf (Canis lupus lupus). While 99% the same, that 1% creates a very messed up dog that acts more like a wolf than a dog while retaining some of the dog behaviors. Dog/Jackal...same problem. Flowers are lovely...definitely.....they aren't an animal that has to get around in the world of man either. They aren't a thinking breathing entity (not that we know of anyway in the sense of sentience). Snakes certainly don't seem to have the same issues as a dog lets say, but they still serve the animal no purpose to mix them that way. I guess I can understand your love of the new and never seen, but I don't see any purpose to them other than the dollar. Geographic miles do make a difference and the difference in DNA does make an impact. I've yet to see a carpondro/carpondro reproduce. Why? Because it a'int right! It's not supposed to happen.
 
Actually, Meg, there is some evidence of Homo neanderthalensis interbreeding with Homo sapien. As for the origin of Homo sapien... we were last to come onto the scene.

You state, "Why? Because it a'int right! It's not supposed to happen." That makes as much less sense then the following.

If it was not supposed to happen it would not be able to happen Meg.
 
Not necessarily true. Kings will breed with a corn if the female (or the male wants to breed whatever is handy) is ready to breed but in the wild they never would. We make it so they do what they wouldn't normally do. Breed with a species that it wouldn't normally do it with. I've seen bulls so driven for sex they will attempt to mount a horse...because they don't have anything else. Given the proper circumstances where a male is in his proper habitat with the proper species to breed with, they will breed with the ones they are supposed to (can't help it that the guys just gotta screw something...the women often have no say in it). We were the last to come on the scene, but today's modern man is not a hybrid. We are all the same species we just have different..er...morphs if you will. Either way....you will never convince me that hybrids are something that benefit anything. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and you have your passions and I have mine. Mine is purity of the species the way nature intended it....not messed around with by us. Our track record sucks in that category.
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
Starsevol, I think you are making some faulty assumptions. First and foremost, I do like hybridizing and I do realize a need to find out as much as you can when hybridizing. Sadly, when mixing two different species together you are often dealing with phenotypes that neither snake had to begin with so the only way to learn is to dive in or explore the works of other hybridizers. I saw some beautiful morphs of corns and I was hooked and new I wanted to hybridize them. I didn't need to know everything to see the art that I see in so many morphs is something I wanted to be a part of. I also saw some beautiful sinacorns, corndurans, mexicorns, jungle corns, etc. and while I may not have the knowledge you have about the individual genetics of corns I knew it was something I wanted to get into as fast as I could within reason. Sure, I'm going to learn more by doing than by sitting around reading a book on morphs as I'm not as much interested in morphs as I am hybrids and not as much information is out there on that subject. Still, I know enough to know how to do test crosses and the like and to determine where my genes are coming from if that is your concern.
Click to expand...

Seems to me that since YOU can't look at a snake and figure out what it is, all you want to do is hybridize as many species as you can so the result is some homogenous messed up snake dna glop that NO ONE ELSE can identify either......

Learning about morphs actually takes some drive, memory and knowledge.
Throwing two completely unrelated animals together "just because"......not so much.....
 
By the way, reading through your two links....the first one says exactly what I was saying...that we were different species. It says in the DNA testing that modern man and neanderthal man were two different peoples and while it doesn't rule out admixture it's more likely they were a completely different people....showing we had different evolutionalry paths. We are related much like modern horse and the african jackass but we are two differnt species. The other just shows the timelines of evolution no DNA studies at all. Interesting stuff though! I enjoyed the first link quite a bit. Very interesting.
 
Starsevol states, "Seems to me that since YOU can't look at a snake and figure out what it is, all you want to do is hybridize as many species as you can so the result is some homogenous messed up snake dna glop that NO ONE ELSE can identify either......

Learning about morphs actually takes some drive, memory and knowledge.
Throwing two completely unrelated animals together "just because"......not so much..... "
Who says I can't learn to look at a snake and id it just as good as you can? That sounds a bit arrogant and a bit demeaning when you add in your comment about drive, memory, and knowledge. Are you really this way in person?
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
Starsevol states, "Seems to me that since YOU can't look at a snake and figure out what it is, all you want to do is hybridize as many species as you can so the result is some homogenous messed up snake dna glop that NO ONE ELSE can identify either......

Learning about morphs actually takes some drive, memory and knowledge.
Throwing two completely unrelated animals together "just because"......not so much..... "
Who says I can't learn to look at a snake and id it just as good as you can? That sounds a bit arrogant and a bit demeaning when you add in your comment about drive, memory, and knowledge. Are you really this way in person?
Click to expand...

Hey, at least when I make a cake I know what goes into it.
I don't look at an egg (not seeing a round thing and unable to identify it, mind you), and dream about all the crap I can mix into it to make it something else.
 
Starsevol, I get the feeling you see hybrids as crap via your statement, "and dream about all the crap I can mix into it to make something else.

Personally, I don't want to work with crap snakes to make crap hybrids. I don't think many would want to use crap snakes. Who sells these crap snakes? If you fail to dream of the impossible you will never achieve the impossible. Don't hate the dream.
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
Starsevol, I get the feeling you see hybrids as crap via your statement, "and dream about all the crap I can mix into it to make something else.

Personally, I don't want to work with crap snakes to make crap hybrids. I don't think many would want to use crap snakes. Who sells these crap snakes? If you fail to dream of the impossible you will never achieve the impossible. Don't hate the dream.
Click to expand...

So, what you are saying is that your nickname is NOT "crap serpents"?
Funny though, that is how I think of the end results of your erector set play sessions. Hah, learn something new every day!
 
Bethany, if you want to poke fun and otherwise demean me by calling me crap serpents go ahead if that makes you feel big and important. The facts will always remain that some will like hybrids and some will hybridize and others will not. You can dislike hybrids or even hybridizers themselves if you want. Just don't think it adds weight to your argument to say hybrids are bad, hybrids are crap, your crap.... because it doesn't.
 
So, you call yourself a "hybridizer" and yet have trouble distinguishing a pure corn from one of your beloved hybrids.
What have YOU done to contribute to the destruction of the corn snake species yourself? Another way of asking you what kind of hybrid art *cough cough* have you bred yourself?
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
Starsevol, I get the feeling you see hybrids as crap via your statement, "and dream about all the crap I can mix into it to make something else.

Personally, I don't want to work with crap snakes to make crap hybrids. I don't think many would want to use crap snakes. Who sells these crap snakes? If you fail to dream of the impossible you will never achieve the impossible. Don't hate the dream.
Click to expand...

And as far as this goes, why NOT use crap snakes to make crap hybrids? Take the ugliest corn or cal king to use in your projects because by the time you are done, you won't have anything anyone can identify anyway.

You can make the best mashed potatoes in town, but after adding gravy, peas, onions and small pieces of chicken, who would ever know?
 
Woooooow, This thread exploded.
My view on hybrids; If Everyone is responsible and tells buyers that its a hybrid. It dosen't bug me.
It is when someone buys a snake, thinking it is of pure lineage and breeds them without that knowledge and then sells them as non hybrid, that bugs me.
I will probably never breed hybrids but some of them are definately beautiful to look at.

I guess you could call me a 'Purist'

Oh, and there are SOME (Very little im sure) Wild Hybrids out there! I wouldn't put it past nature.
 
No need to get so defensive Bethany. Not sure why this bothers you so much to the point you're resorting to name calling. I don't like hybrids but I'm not going to kick someone's butt over the fact they do. I just don't have to buy one or create one. I don't see a purpose to it other than money making but you never know...perhaps there will someday be a hybrid that has traits that can fight disease. Until that day though...I still think I'll sit out the hybrid train. I think so far everyone has been civil except you and I'd like to think that you aren't intending to be so hot about it. Perhaps this topic touches more of a nerve with you than with me. I'm hot on guns, but I still remain civil about it when someone goes off about taking them. It only serves to make you look like a hothead instead of someone making a case. Let's just all get along. We need to welcome all ideas from all people. Not just the ones that we agree with. There is value in everything.
 
MegF. said:
No need to get so defensive Bethany. Not sure why this bothers you so much to the point you're resorting to name calling. I don't like hybrids but I'm not going to kick someone's butt over the fact they do. I just don't have to buy one or create one. I don't see a purpose to it other than money making but you never know...perhaps there will someday be a hybrid that has traits that can fight disease. Until that day though...I still think I'll sit out the hybrid train. I think so far everyone has been civil except you and I'd like to think that you aren't intending to be so hot about it. Perhaps this topic touches more of a nerve with you than with me. I'm hot on guns, but I still remain civil about it when someone goes off about taking them. It only serves to make you look like a hothead instead of someone making a case. Let's just all get along. We need to welcome all ideas from all people. Not just the ones that we agree with. There is value in everything.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is a huge hot spot with me. I personally had hatched some hybrids that I did not know were hybrids, and polluted many bloodlines in this area alllllllll by myself. Yay, go me!
Especially when someone does not even know what a pure version looks like, yet be so hot to muck it all up. No appreciation for how something is supposed to be.
And if you think I am a hothead when it comes to hybrids, don't get ME started on guns. (I think you and I are on the same page there).
 
Okay, I'm at friends', I'm on my phone, can you guys PLEASE be civil? There is no law about discussing hybrids in a hybrid thread. If you don't like hybrids, fine, but I don't think we're accomplishing anything digging up old grudges. Thank you.
 
Bethany, so your telling me you bred a snake you didn't know the history of and couldn't id as a hybrid? Yeah, I would be upset as well if it was something that was done intentional to me while I was still learning and I had no intention of breeding hybrids. For what its worth, I have collected a photo gallery of hybrid snakes on my own computer. I have also collected pictures of various snakes I think might contribute to the look I'm after. I'm also in the research stage still and after several months of wanting to hybridize corns.... I still find myself looking at pictures trying to decide exactly what I want to mix and what I hope to achieve. I'd like to take my time and truly create something novel and unique, but I can totally understand your frustration.
 
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