Bowel Obstruction

[heatwave]

There are also visible lumps, which is why I first thought she was gravid. .

Yea.... if multiple lumps are palpatable and they arent like "hips" (fat deposits by the tail) Im going to guess retained eggs.

 

[Raiyne]

The thing about the lumps is that they aren't hard or anything, and they're not in any specific location. They move around as you hold her in different positions, sometimes being closer to her neck. It's more like her stomach is bumpy in places. I was thinking gravid, then possibly gas, then maybe a blockage. Her stomach has been getting larger over the past few months, but I chalked it up to normal growth since there didn't seem to be anything wrong (she wasn't bloated, just a little squishy on her underbelly). Could gravid snakes live that long with the problem not being treated? I mean, could she have been egg-bound for months prior to this?

 

[Raiyne]

I should mention that I haven't noticed any "hips" on her. Her lower end seems to transition to her tail fairly smoothly. It's her mid-section that's huge.

 

[heatwave]

The thing about the lumps is that they aren't hard or anything, and they're not in any specific location. They move around as you hold her in different positions, sometimes being closer to her neck. It's more like her stomach is bumpy in places. I was thinking gravid, then possibly gas, then maybe a blockage. Her stomach has been getting larger over the past few months, but I chalked it up to normal growth since there didn't seem to be anything wrong (she wasn't bloated, just a little squishy on her underbelly). Could gravid snakes live that long with the problem not being treated? I mean, could she have been egg-bound for months prior to this?

Wow...yea im at a loss. Its a head scratcher. Now that you say that im thinking maybe cysts or something... but again im not a vet!!

I know its a PITA since you just coughed up $145 for the last vet but I would seriously consider a second opinion at a really good reptile vet.

 

[heatwave]

I found these listings, but they are from 2006 so not sure they are still good:

Deborah L. Wiggins, DVM
Family Pet Wellness Clinic
8501 W. Franklin Road
Boise, ID 83709
Tel: (208) 377-9009
Mike Koob, DVM
All Pet Complex
6712 Glenwood
Boise, ID 83703
Tel: (208) 853-1000

Intermountain Pet Hospital
800 W. Overland Rd.
Meridian
208-888-2910



* Seth Trachtenberg
Prairie Animal Hospital
920 West Prairie Avenue
Coeur D Alene 83815
208-772-3214

http://idahovethospital.com/our-services/

 

[Raiyne]

I found these listings, but they are from 2006 so not sure they are still good:

Deborah L. Wiggins, DVM
Family Pet Wellness Clinic
8501 W. Franklin Road
Boise, ID 83709
Tel: (208) 377-9009
Mike Koob, DVM
All Pet Complex
6712 Glenwood
Boise, ID 83703
Tel: (208) 853-1000

Intermountain Pet Hospital
800 W. Overland Rd.
Meridian
208-888-2910



* Seth Trachtenberg
Prairie Animal Hospital
920 West Prairie Avenue
Coeur D Alene 83815
208-772-3214

http://idahovethospital.com/our-services/

Wow, that's awesome heatwave, thank you so much. It might be out-dated, but it gives me places to call. Lesson learned about owning a snake; find a good vet and keep in touch with them so you aren't blind-sided by their retirement and left in a lurch years later.

 

[diamondlil]

First off, sorry to say this but she's seriously overweight. See how small her head looks compared to her body? Corns should be slender and muscular, whereas she's more of a ball python shape. Cutting back down to mice will really help though, once she's feeding again I'd suggest one large adult mouse every 2 weeks would be a good starting point for her. She should lose the extra weight gradually and be more active, but she may well end up with those stubborn deposits ('hips') becoming visible as the rest of her slims down.
The squishy lumps you could feel sound more like ovulation, some females get quite swollen as the egg mass develops, and as she's not very toned it may explain why you could feel the lumps. The good news is that if it is just follicles, she may well reabsorb them without trouble. If she does go on to develop slugs (unfertilised eggs), having her more active and toned will help her to lay them. Cutting down her feeding and getting her out to crawl about and exercise more (up and down stairs is good exercise) will help.
If you do go on to suspect she's egg-bound, please don't go to your present vet, as suggesting euthanasia for something that could be as simple as ovulation or constipation is, I'd say, extreme!
Was there visible bruising before you took her to the vet? If not, is it a result of the vet's examination?

 

[heatwave]

First off, sorry to say this but she's seriously overweight. See how small her head looks compared to her body? Corns should be slender and muscular, whereas she's more of a ball python shape. Cutting back down to mice will really help though, once she's feeding again I'd suggest one large adult mouse every 2 weeks would be a good starting point for her. She should lose the extra weight gradually and be more active, but she may well end up with those stubborn deposits ('hips') becoming visible as the rest of her slims down.
The squishy lumps you could feel sound more like ovulation, some females get quite swollen as the egg mass develops, and as she's not very toned it may explain why you could feel the lumps. The good news is that if it is just follicles, she may well reabsorb them without trouble. If she does go on to develop slugs (unfertilised eggs), having her more active and toned will help her to lay them. Cutting down her feeding and getting her out to crawl about and exercise more (up and down stairs is good exercise) will help.
If you do go on to suspect she's egg-bound, please don't go to your present vet, as suggesting euthanasia for something that could be as simple as ovulation or constipation is, I'd say, extreme!
Was there visible bruising before you took her to the vet? If not, is it a result of the vet's examination?

^^^^ excellent points.

Never thought of ovulation. My boa gets HUGE and puffy when she ovulates. I cant palpate the actual folicules but I can see that being overweight might make a difference. The only thing is OP mentions that her gal has been like this for some time, possibly over a month? That would make ovulation a stretch wouldnt it?

I would
A) call the vet and get as much info as possible. Ask lots of questions. Really push it. Thats their job, remember.

B)I would ask for a copy of the x-rays showing the "blockage". They can usually email them or burn a copy on disc for you. They are your property and there is no reason you can not get a copy. I get a copy of all my animals x-rays.

C)I would ask what, if anything, was removed, and how it was removed

D)I would ask them why they recommended euthenization for her...?

E)Id start calling around and find a new herp vet!

 

[Raiyne]

First off, sorry to say this but she's seriously overweight. See how small her head looks compared to her body? Corns should be slender and muscular, whereas she's more of a ball python shape. Cutting back down to mice will really help though, once she's feeding again I'd suggest one large adult mouse every 2 weeks would be a good starting point for her. She should lose the extra weight gradually and be more active, but she may well end up with those stubborn deposits ('hips') becoming visible as the rest of her slims down.
The squishy lumps you could feel sound more like ovulation, some females get quite swollen as the egg mass develops, and as she's not very toned it may explain why you could feel the lumps. The good news is that if it is just follicles, she may well reabsorb them without trouble. If she does go on to develop slugs (unfertilised eggs), having her more active and toned will help her to lay them. Cutting down her feeding and getting her out to crawl about and exercise more (up and down stairs is good exercise) will help.
If you do go on to suspect she's egg-bound, please don't go to your present vet, as suggesting euthanasia for something that could be as simple as ovulation or constipation is, I'd say, extreme!
Was there visible bruising before you took her to the vet? If not, is it a result of the vet's examination?

The "bruising" was there before the examination. Basically what the vet was pointing out to me was that the stretched skin around her middle was blue-ish compared to the white-ish parts around her neck. Maybe it was bruising. Maybe it's just because her skin there is more see-through and it's showing her insides?

I'm at a complete loss, but I'm leaning towards this being a gradual problem rather than a sudden one, the more I think about it. Maybe if I wait a month until her next meal, drop back down to mice, and get her some regular exercise, she'll go back to normal. I'll talk to the vet about my concerns tomorrow, as heatwave suggested, and if she's no help, I'll try to get in touch with someone else.

Unfortunately, even if she needs surgery, it's probably not in our budget. My husband and I decided on a $350 limit for this. We really can't afford more at this point in time due to my recent decline in health and ridiculous hospital bills. I hate to be the person who lets an animal that could get better be euthanized because of budget constraints, but here I am. Before that though, if the vets can't help her, I'll try the diet and exercise bit and see if she improves. Euthanasia will be a last resort and will depend on her quality of life.

 

[heatwave]

Unfortunately, even if she needs surgery, it's probably not in our budget. My husband and I decided on a $350 limit for this. We really can't afford more at this point in time due to my recent decline in health and ridiculous hospital bills. I hate to be the person who lets an animal that could get better be euthanized because of budget constraints, but here I am. Before that though, if the vets can't help her, I'll try the diet and exercise bit and see if she improves. Euthanasia will be a last resort and will depend on her quality of life.

I really wouldnt be worrying about surgery right now. She doesnt look at all like shes on deaths door, and if shes really only just stopped eating...have you googled pictures of egg bound females on deaths door? it aint pretty. In your pictures she looks alert and (albeit a chunky monkey) just a little distended.

Take a deep breath

Squeeze as much info out of the vet you took her to as possible. You paid her, you deserve it.

Keep us updated and hopefully more people will chime in here. Heck if you get her x-rays post them here! Maybe someone here has been through the exact same thing and can help more with the images.

She can go several weeks without food, she wont starve!

Unless it comes out that she is in massive pain, has inoperable malignant tumors, or is belly up in her viv gasping for air, I personally wouldn't think about euthenasia. I think that vet was pretty irresponsible for even putting it in your head.

You got lots of good ideas to go from here- so keep calm and slither on! And keep us posted!

 

[Raiyne]

I really wouldnt be worrying about surgery right now. She doesnt look at all like shes on deaths door, and if shes really only just stopped eating...have you googled pictures of egg bound females on deaths door? it aint pretty. In your pictures she looks alert and (albeit a chunky monkey) just a little distended.

Take a deep breath

Squeeze as much info out of the vet you took her to as possible. You paid her, you deserve it.

Keep us updated and hopefully more people will chime in here. Heck if you get her x-rays post them here! Maybe someone here has been through the exact same thing and can help more with the images.

She can go several weeks without food, she wont starve!

Unless it comes out that she is in massive pain, has inoperable malignant tumors, or is belly up in her viv gasping for air, I personally wouldn't think about euthenasia. I think that vet was pretty irresponsible for even putting it in your head.

You got lots of good ideas to go from here- so keep calm and slither on! And keep us posted!

I needed to hear this before going to bed, thanks. It's 3:40 am and I'm exhausted.

 

[heatwave]

I needed to hear this before going to bed, thanks. It's 3:40 am and I'm exhausted.

Night night! Let us know how she is tomorrow. Its 5:46 am here and I'm still a good 4 hours away from being able to get some sleep lol.

 

[diamondlil]

Honestly, right now I can't see anything about your snake or in your description of what's been happening that makes surgery or even less euthanasia on the cards! I'm not a vet, but I've kept my snakes for a few years now and been a member on here. So as well as learning about my own snakes I've followed other keeper's experiences, joys and failures.
Your snake has passed feces since the vet visit, so there's not a complete blockage there. It's normal for some ovulating females to refuse food, perhaps the swelling makes them uncomfortable? If she is indeed egg-bound, there are more ways than one to get her to pass the eggs and active interventions can be the worst thing to do.
You've done the right thing coming on here with your concerns, there are so many experienced breeders and keepers that will help with practical suggestions and support. Rest easy for now, you're not alone in this.

 

[bitsy]

She feels like a balloon and if you lift her up by her front end you can see the bulge slide down. There are also visible lumps, which is why I first thought she was gravid.

Someone posted pics here of a grossly overweight Corn that they'd rescued (couple of years ago, sorry I can't find the thread). The poor snake looked like a sock filled with pool balls. The lumps were just extreme and uneven fat deposits. That certainly matches your description, if not her exact appearance. If the problem was that she was gravid and eggbound, then I'd expect more extreme swelling in her lower third. As it seems like the effect is all over her body, then I'd be more wary of thinking about eggbinding. Having said that, it might just be difficult to tell with a deep layer of fat all over her.

I agree that the vet was a little previous when suggesting euthanasia. I could understand it if they'd identified something like a tumour causing the blockage, but without that diagnosis I dont see the logic of it. Having passed some faeces, it doesn't seem like there's a total blockage any more, but it'd be good to know what the vet removed and how (could only have been by reaching in via the mouth or vent, neither of which bear thinking about!).

If there are internal fat deposits, then these could be choking her internal organs - just the fact that she's this fat, might mean that her digestive system is compromised and that part of it is partly blocked by something like a prolapse.

Refusal to eat in a usually eager feeder (and you lass certainly has been!) is always a worry, but sometimes there can be really simple and easy-to-fix causes that needn't be anything sinister. Double-check the temperatures at the warm and cool ends of her tank (on the floor). Too hot or too cold can put them off eating and sorting something like this really is the quickest fix of all.

 

[Raiyne]

Shesha seems to be doing fine today. I did some google image searches for "corn snake overweight" and the pictures definitely look like Shesha. One of the images came from a forum post on here and the description of the snake being "squishy" and there being strange creases and bumps sounds identical to my girl. The pictures appear to be of a reverse okeetee, just like Shesha. I'm starting to think she's just really fat and any other underlying problems will be difficult to diagnose in her current condition.

I haven't gotten a hold of the vet just yet. I'm a little nervous about making the call because it's hard for me to be assertive. There have been many times where I was overcharged or something I bought ended up being broken when I opened the package or I was sent the wrong item, and I wasn't confident enough to ask questions. Usually my husband helps me in situations like these. He used to be on the debate team in high school and is a pro at negotiating, so it's easy (even enjoyable) for him to deal with things like this.

In the meantime, I'll get her some regular exercise and cut way back on the size of her meals and see if she starts looking better as she loses weight.

 

[Raiyne]

I keep forgetting there's no edit button for me. I forgot to link the thread I was talking about in my previous post.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71836

 

[WingedSweetheart]

Keep us posted. Hopefully your snake is alright and just has a weight problem (which can be fixed over time). Hope nothing more serious than that.

Also refusing meals this time of year isn't uncommon for male. Sometimes even females will go off feed (normally not nearly as long as males though).

Hopefully you can get some answers from your vet on the nature of this "blockage".

 

[Raiyne]

Just to give some more information:

Shesha came from a breeder who had intended to use her for her breeding program, but due to unfortunate life events, she had to sell most of her corns to help pay for hospital bills. She told me Shesha had been "super fed" to get her up to size as fast as possible for breeding and that she was a fine example of a "high white" reverse okeetee.

When I graduated from large mice to small rats, it was largely because Shesha didn't act like she used to after being fed. There wasn't a visible lump and she remained active rather than camping out on the warm side for a day or two. I felt bad about it, but I rarely fed her more often than two and a half weeks apart, and it wasn't uncommon for her to go 3 weeks between meals. I feel less bad about it now that I know she's not starving.

The worst thing I've done is that I no longer handle her like I used to. Maybe once ever two to three weeks, and usually that's for feeding or cleaning her viv. I've considered finding her a new home because of the health problems I've been dealing with and how little time I now spend with her, but I'm worried that someone else might not properly care for her in other ways such as temperatures, substrate, and cleaning.

How often should I be handling her now that I know she's overweight? Once a day? Three or four times a week? I take it from everyone's advice that she should go back to large mice maybe once every two weeks or so, but how long should I wait to start feeding her again?

 

[AliCat37]

When snakes are powerfed like you said she was, it's pretty typical of them to always act hungry- they are used to their cage opening up meaning feeding time. I think that with a diet of a small mouse (like weanling) every two or three weeks will do her a lot of good. I wouldn't feed her till she poops though, like everyone else suggested earlier.

 

[Raiyne]

I called the vet to ask for her weight since they put her on the scale yesterday. I wanted to ask about the blockage but the receptionist seemed so annoyed at having to bring up her file that I chickened out. At yesterday's appointment, the vet said she'd call to check on us on Wednesday, so hopefully I'll feel more comfortable asking questions at that time.

Her weight, according to the vet, is 1.35 kg.