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Breeding Mice/Rats

K

kellyjones

Addicted but happy
Due to the expence of feeding the ever growing population of corns in my house, I am considering breeding my own Mice and Rats as food for them. I have quite a few questions I would like to know the answers to before I decide. Does anybody out there do this and would they be prepared to enter into correspondence with me about it?
 
hiya kelly

i breed my own


and would be only too pleased to answer your questions, how many snakes do you have/intend to have??



steve........................
 
I also breed my own mice for 8 snakes.

I have been breeding my own feeders for about two-three years now. And I must say it has become as big a part in the hobby for me as the snakes themselves. You will find that you come to enjoy breeding the mice and caring for them almost as much as the snakes.

They take about double the work of the snakes but it is more than worth it IMHO if you do it right. :) I will also be happy to answer any questions to have. Post away right here and maybe others who are just starting can learn something too! :)

bmm
 
What is the ideal sex ratio of...

male to female as far as breeding mice is concerned, !.3, 1.4,1.5's How about rat ratios?

Is anybody using more than one male to a tub..., I know that it's possible with mice if they are raised from weaning age together, is that true with rats also?
Or will the male rats kill each other?

How about diet, any recommendations?

Any Opinions on what constitutes the "Ideal" mouse breeding substrate.

Here is a mice breeding link that seems
to cover the basics pretty well; http://www.boakingdom.com/rodents.html

Mind as well run with this thread title here. :D
kellyjones, you have been cordially invited to ask away on this public forum,
What do you wish to know?:)
 
Last edited:
Sex Ratio: Anywhere from 1:3 to 1:5 for both mice and rats.

More than 1 male per tank: No problem with either mice or rats as long as all the males are new to the tank and fairly young. If one dies, replace all the males or keep a male that was born in the tank and has never been removed.

Diet: I feed Mazuri rodent pellets, but any diet made specifically for rodents is fine. Stay away from dog food as the protein level is too high and the dyes are not good. You can mix your own diet of various grains and seed...I used to use whole oats, cracked corn and sunflower seeds (equal volume, not weight, of each) before my feed store carried Mazuri.

Bedding: I've always used pine shavings (with some shredded newspaper for the rodents to nest with) and have never had any problems with them or my snakes. DO NOT use cedar. Aspen is also good, but is more expensive.
 
I've only recently started trying to breed some of my own feeders, and I've found the rats far easier to breed than the mice...

After about three months of having mice, I'd yet to have a litter that didn't get eaten... but with the 2 colonies of rats (whom I've had for a little over a month), I have had 6 litters born so far and no problems. The only issues I have with rats are that they're smellier, and the smallest food item they produce is about mouse-fuzzy size (newborn rat). Beyond that, no problems.

I'm currently looking at putting together a third cage of rats (ratio 1:3 as anything more would require larger caging), and I think at that point I'll have my adult snakefood needs fairly well covered... If not, then a fourth colony should pick up the slack. As far as the mice go, they became food for JR's ball pythons. ;) Beyond that, they're darn cute, and I'm tempted to start keeping/selling some of the nicer-looking babies as pets.

Just for reference, I have 20 ratsnakes and only 4 of them are currently too small to take ratpups... though I could likely switch them over to younger rats for prey...

hooded.jpg


-Kat
 
I maintain a fair size colony--and I think opinions will vary on what works best-- some things to consider???
MICE...
How long will I keep my breeders?
I don't keep mine any longer than 10 months. Date you trays and watch your production.

How old should my breeders be?
Males are best at 9 weeks. Females are best at 11 weeks.

Stress?
Mice seem to be easily stressed compared to rats. If you disturb them or aggravate them, they wiil canibalize the offspring. They do seem to get used to one person though.

Ratio?
As large as your container will allow. I use Freedom breeder racks(just a bit pricey, but now I'm committed)--or maybe I should be-- and 1:5 works well.

Male mice(nasty little buggers)?
I never put more than 1 to a tray. Unless they are raised together they fight to the death--and if not to the death--there will always be one that breeds and one that gets the krap kicked out of him, additional stress in the mousey world! If your male does not produce, make him a snake entree'
Bedding?
I recently switched to Alfalfa pellets(rabbit food). This works extremely well in controling odor. Pine works very good too. It's cheaper, but you have to clean more often.

Food?
I use Mazuri 5m30. There are some other brands that work just as well, this is what is available to me. Dog food is to high in protein for mice, (makes em fat) but I have had good results in a mixed diet of Mazuri and dogfood for rats. Watch there weight, If they get really fat ez up on the dogfood a little. This does not have to be technical--don't bother weighing you rats. The breeding females will always look ideal. Watch the males! When they look pregnant, they are to fat.

Rats are completely different from mice. They have no social order. I think some of my rats have more pesonality than some people I know. I will say there is somthing for genetics though. All of my rats are people freindly. A friend of mine breeds rats and has a bad time with his biting--had his son in the hospital with one bite that went to the bone. Rats I usually keep for 12 to 18 months. If you watch production, you will know when its time to retire them. I have never had any of my rats eat their offspring. Rat pups work well for fattening up those females your going to breed.

This is my opinion, others may have something that works better for them. So use what you want and throw out the rest.

Matt L.
 
I myself:

Diet: Small animal mix, Squrriel Mix all the time....once or twice per week I offer oats, dogfood (yes, and the protien level in the mouse food is higher than my cheapo brand dog food as well as the fat and there is no dye if you get the cheapest possible), Alfalfa and Timothy hay, and leftovers.

I normally make a bowl of leftovers like croutans, rices, dry pasta, egg and egg shell and whatever else. The babies really grow fast on it. Anyways....

I keep 1.4 in shoebox size tubs.

I have only had four babies die this season and I suspect they might have been stillborn as the mother ate only them and not the rest and they never seemed to move at all. So other than that, a 100% survival rate.

Works for me. But lots of things work for mice. They live with anything lol

bmm
 
by "season" I meant in a year. I only breed mice in the winter, fall, spring as the summer kills them off fast here with no AC, so I maintain no mice during June, July, and August.

bmm
 
I have 10 rubbermaid containers with mice, 1 to 4 ratio and get about 75 newborns a week. I feed them a commercial rodent diet that I get at a reduced price. I buy it at a store that sells to the university research laboratories, so when they have a bag that is broken, they can't sell it to the universities.

I use aspen chips or shredded aspen as bedding, again I buy the slightly damaged or broken bags for a discount price. Total cost per mouse for food and bedding is about 5 cents.
This sure beats buying frozen mice at a cost of anywhere from 40 to 90 cents depending on the size and quantity.

I have never fed them anything else (table scraps, dog food supplements, etc.). Can you see any reason to ?

Mark
 
Nope. Many people raise thousands of feeders on nothing but Lab blocks (like you do) or even some on just dog food. And both groups of people have been having good results for years.

I just do it for me. I enjoy taking care of them and I enjoy feeding them so this gives me more time to do that. They seem to enjoy it, so why not. Cost is so low doesn't hurt me to throw in some treats.

You know, mice are just so easy. They have lived forever in a million different conditions and thrived. I think when it comes to mouse diet, you are pretty safe making a choice from the main types out there no matter which you pick it seems. :)

bmm
 
It does sound good as the cheaper option but I don't think I could raise mice then have to kill them :( I'm way too soft! Was it difficult to do when you first started breeding your own colonies? I'd love to be able to because feeding is getting quite expensive (they put prices up again). Thing is, I feel sorry for the mice we experiment on at uni. Some zoologist I am!! :rolleyes:
 
Hard to kill at first? A little.

The feeling went away within minutes though.

LOL

Seriously, my boyfriend could probably kill a mouse now while eating his dinner. :)

bmm
 
I was wondering

If anyone else Had some idias on whats best for breeding mice i just started a week ago with 1 male and 2 females thanx




Ryan
 
What do you mean ideas??

All the above are good ideas.....

Diet- your choice...either mice feed, lab blocks, dog food, a mix of all this etc.

Bedding usually aspen and other wood chips, no cedar! Alfalfa pellets...

1 male and any number of females....you already have a 1.2 group set up, so leave them alone. They will probably have their first litter within 1-3 months. Can take some time ot get established for them. um thats about it.

You can use search engines online to look for "mouse care" most pages are for raising pets but the advice works as good .

bmm
 
I agree---All the information presented in this thread is excellent. Let's face facts, no matter what anyone says, mice are easy to raise. Just put them together. Good breeders you can count on a new litter about every 25-28 days. What all the hoop-la is about is the highest production and quality feed for our snakes. So those of you just starting out keep some records, see what happens. What works well for some may not work for others. No matter what, the only thing that keeps them from having babies is seperation. ----Rachel, I felt a little bit bad about feeding off the first ones, but after a couple hundred or so you will be tossing them to your snakes like treats.



Matt L.
 
An observation on mice pinky cannibalism

Once I started paying close attention to which tanks were eating pinkies and which weren't, and then which mice were doing the actual eating, I noticed that tanks with all new, young breeders were the main problem. I experimented with keeping some mid-aged, experienced females in the tanks with the younger, first-time mothers. If an experienced mom had pinkies first, the younger females seemed to learn how they were supposed to take care of babies from her, and I rarely had any cannibalism in those tanks. If an inexperienced mom had the first litter, better than 50% of the time, she, or another young female, was eating them. I would notice the older females trying to shield a few pinkies by moving them and then keeping the pinkies under them.

I know that the proper care of young is partially instinct and partially learned in many species, and I now firmly believe it is this way with mice. Now, whenever I need to "get rid of the old and bring in the new", an old, pregnant female in each tank gets a temporary reprieve until she can show the other females what to do before she becomes snake food. I have had minimal cannibalism since.
 
I totally agree with your findings on cannibalism Susan - glad you shared the ideas. I routinely keep one or two older females with their daughters until the younger females have learned proper pinky care and it works great to revitalize a colony. Other than occasionally having to set up some new breeding groups when outcrossing is needed, I simply keep back the best females from a litter when it is time to retire the moms and the young ones learn before they have their first litter.

I often retain replacement breeder males from the same colony through several generations without any problems too - fathers are pretty tolerant of a young male. When the younger one is starting to mature, I take the old guy out a day or two after most of the females have had their litters so he has already re-bred them. That way the young male doesn't have the pressure of breeding a lot until most girls have their litters at least 3 weeks later - gives him time to earn the respect of the harem.

mary v.
 
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