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Calls to boycott Arizona are spreading like a virus
- Thread starter jpccusa
- Start date
Camby
He will join us or die
I have followed this thread but not posted until now. It will not be a long post either. I am thankful that Arizona passed this law and thankful South Carolina (my home state) is likely to follow soon. People can twist my opinion into racist garble if they want, but that wouldn't be true. ALL that I am saying is that if people are to be here, they need to do it legaly. Much like a building has a "maximum person" fire rating for safety, we need to control the persons in this country or it becomes dangerous for all. I do not support the "if you are born here you are a citizen" either IF both parents are here illegally.
That said, I believe one of the biggest problems is that MOST people look at illegals crossing onto our country as an immigration problem and it may be at its base, however, I believe it is a matter of national security, NOT IMMIGRATION. If the federal government would have done its job and protected the countries borders, then Arizon and likely numerous other states, would not have to pass these laws. As far as I am concerned, the constitution is a void document until the Federal GZovernment starts doing it's job. They want to collect the taxes, appoint Judges to "interpret" our laws and so on and so on, however, they do not want to perform the most basic of its duties and that is protect its citizens. When people loose money and the economy suffers because of illegal immigrants, then the Federal Government IS not doing its job.
dc
That said, I believe one of the biggest problems is that MOST people look at illegals crossing onto our country as an immigration problem and it may be at its base, however, I believe it is a matter of national security, NOT IMMIGRATION. If the federal government would have done its job and protected the countries borders, then Arizon and likely numerous other states, would not have to pass these laws. As far as I am concerned, the constitution is a void document until the Federal GZovernment starts doing it's job. They want to collect the taxes, appoint Judges to "interpret" our laws and so on and so on, however, they do not want to perform the most basic of its duties and that is protect its citizens. When people loose money and the economy suffers because of illegal immigrants, then the Federal Government IS not doing its job.
dc
tsst
Deuce is watching!
Apparently you don't even need to be an illegal immigrant in Canada to be detained by immigration. All you have to be is a ballplayer coming to entertain the Canucks. So much for the utopia of human rights eh nova?!?!
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/article/2010-05-28/orioles-jones-detained-for-hours-entering-canada
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/article/2010-05-28/orioles-jones-detained-for-hours-entering-canada
diamondlil
Mice! They taste so nice!
I mentioned this thread to my brother (he is a bit of a pain sometimes, 'knowing' more about everything than anyone
) Then I had to endure his thoughts on why the proposed actions are so terrible and why I should support the boycott and not go dude-ranching in Arizona this year.
My reply that I may well quote the boycott to try for a discount on my holiday brought on more pontificating until I pointed out that I was more inclined to listen to people who were directly affected by the issues.
) Then I had to endure his thoughts on why the proposed actions are so terrible and why I should support the boycott and not go dude-ranching in Arizona this year.My reply that I may well quote the boycott to try for a discount on my holiday brought on more pontificating until I pointed out that I was more inclined to listen to people who were directly affected by the issues.
tsst
Deuce is watching!
I think what most boycotters miss is that the AZ law is a veritable clone of the federal law that was just not being enforced.
If the fed somehow grew a pair and started to do their job of enforcing the federal version will there be a call to boycott the whole US? Will California boycott the other 49 states? Will LA boycott California?
:roflmao::sidestep:
If the fed somehow grew a pair and started to do their job of enforcing the federal version will there be a call to boycott the whole US? Will California boycott the other 49 states? Will LA boycott California?
:roflmao::sidestep:
airenlow
hope is not a strategy
I mentioned this thread to my brother (he is a bit of a pain sometimes, 'knowing' more about everything than anyone
My reply that I may well quote the boycott to try for a discount on my holiday brought on more pontificating until I pointed out that I was more inclined to listen to people who were directly affected by the issues.
J9, I just recommend that you brush up on your Spanish before going dude-ranching. You'll see what I mean when you get there...
diamondlil
Mice! They taste so nice!
Oh no Josh! With my dark skin I'll be speaking the Queen's English at all times!:roflmao:
starsevol
Cohabbing is cruelty...
Apparently MSNBC doesn't know that "illegal" means "against the law"
Sadly, MSNBC does not seem to be the only one.....
wade
Save The Humans
Just got this Email from my son:
Subject: Show of Support for Arizona
I must show my ID when:
1. When ever I am pulled over by the police
2. Making purchases on MOST credit cards.
3. When I show up for a doctor's appointment.
4. When filling out a credit card or loan application.
5. When applying for or renewing a driver's license or passport.
6. When applying for any kind of insurance.
7. When filling out college applications.
8. When donating blood.
9. When obtaining certain prescription drugs.
10. When making some debit purchases, especially if I'm out of state.
11. When collecting a boarding pass for airline or train travel.
I'm sure there are more instances, but the point is that we citizens of the USA are required to prove who we are nearly every day. Why should people in this country illegally be exempt?
Why shouldn't we guard our borders as closely as every other country in the world does?
GO ARIZONA!!!
Subject: Show of Support for Arizona
I must show my ID when:
1. When ever I am pulled over by the police
2. Making purchases on MOST credit cards.
3. When I show up for a doctor's appointment.
4. When filling out a credit card or loan application.
5. When applying for or renewing a driver's license or passport.
6. When applying for any kind of insurance.
7. When filling out college applications.
8. When donating blood.
9. When obtaining certain prescription drugs.
10. When making some debit purchases, especially if I'm out of state.
11. When collecting a boarding pass for airline or train travel.
I'm sure there are more instances, but the point is that we citizens of the USA are required to prove who we are nearly every day. Why should people in this country illegally be exempt?
Why shouldn't we guard our borders as closely as every other country in the world does?
GO ARIZONA!!!
Attachments
Let's try a few scenarios.
I'm white, have been working in my garden, and want a drink. I walk through a park and playground to the corner store to buy a soda. I have $5 and my house key, but no documents. I'm probably safe.
Same scenario, 3rd generation hispanic american, born in this country. Is safe from this law in theory, but may well spend a night or two in jail until they can prove they are a citizen.
Likewise asians or anyone with an accent.
Giving police the ability to stop anyone on suspicion of being an illegal alien invites abuse of power.
As for the check list above, they're all moot points. Those are generally privileges denied illegal aliens anyway, and you're expected to provide that information. I don't need an ID to exist. Biking, shopping, walking, just about anything done in a public place can legally be done without identifying documentation. Thanks to this law, if you're not white, you don't dare do these things without documentation, even if you are a legal citizen. Therein lies the problem. This law infringes on the rights of legal citizens who happen to be Hispanic or foreign looking.
I'm white, have been working in my garden, and want a drink. I walk through a park and playground to the corner store to buy a soda. I have $5 and my house key, but no documents. I'm probably safe.
Same scenario, 3rd generation hispanic american, born in this country. Is safe from this law in theory, but may well spend a night or two in jail until they can prove they are a citizen.
Likewise asians or anyone with an accent.
Giving police the ability to stop anyone on suspicion of being an illegal alien invites abuse of power.
As for the check list above, they're all moot points. Those are generally privileges denied illegal aliens anyway, and you're expected to provide that information. I don't need an ID to exist. Biking, shopping, walking, just about anything done in a public place can legally be done without identifying documentation. Thanks to this law, if you're not white, you don't dare do these things without documentation, even if you are a legal citizen. Therein lies the problem. This law infringes on the rights of legal citizens who happen to be Hispanic or foreign looking.
wstphal
working in the Gulag
I still think AZ is doing this to draw attention to the problem. The real answer is BORDER SECURITY and STRONG CONSEQUENCES for employers of undocumented workers. If they can't get into the country, that solves one problem, and if they can't get any under-the-table work, the ones that are here will leave on their own, solving the other problem. If AZ can force the Federal Government into doing something about the actions that will stop the flow of illegal immigrants & get the ones already here to leave, AZ will be a lot better off, including all the LEGAL Latinos, green card holders, tourist visa holders, and citizens.
I also hope it works. I hate the idea of some citizens being unable to walk to the corner store to buy a soda, or go jogging, without carrying "papers". Every time I think about this issue, I am really ambivalent, because I understand there is a huge problem with undocumented migrants who didn't wait for a green card, just hopped the border. That's not fair to all the folks who are waiting for their green card. And the border areas are suffering in other ways from the influx. But I also get this shiver down my spine & hear a German-accented voice saying "Papers?" and that's not the country I want to live in. So I say stop them at the border, a place where people are accustomed to showing documents. We may need to bring all of the troops home from Iraq & Afghanistan to hold that border but it's a good use of our military in my view.
I also hope it works. I hate the idea of some citizens being unable to walk to the corner store to buy a soda, or go jogging, without carrying "papers". Every time I think about this issue, I am really ambivalent, because I understand there is a huge problem with undocumented migrants who didn't wait for a green card, just hopped the border. That's not fair to all the folks who are waiting for their green card. And the border areas are suffering in other ways from the influx. But I also get this shiver down my spine & hear a German-accented voice saying "Papers?" and that's not the country I want to live in. So I say stop them at the border, a place where people are accustomed to showing documents. We may need to bring all of the troops home from Iraq & Afghanistan to hold that border but it's a good use of our military in my view.
I can mostly agree with your position, Wstphal. I juts don't believe the end justifies infringing the rights of a minority.
A combination of more efficient immigration, so that the legals can actually get into the country, and a more secure border would be a solution. I'm just not sure that the benefits of securing a border that size would be worth the cost.
A combination of more efficient immigration, so that the legals can actually get into the country, and a more secure border would be a solution. I'm just not sure that the benefits of securing a border that size would be worth the cost.
wstphal
working in the Gulag
I don't want to infringe on minority rights either. I want the checking to be done at the border, so that people in this country are here legally, and thus can go about their business unbothered unless they commit a crime. And to give people of whatever color & ethnic background that freedom requires securing the borders, no matter what that ends up costing. I'd be willing to pay higher taxes if I was 100% guaranteed that extra money went into beefing up border security.
wade
Save The Humans
You are being naive and silly with your concerns. Did you know that Arizona is the kidnap capital of the nation and that 85% of the kidnappings are connected to illegal immigrants? Who’s rights are being infringed. Did you know that almost all of the gang related crimes in Phoenix are connected to illegal immigrants and drug trafficing? If I lived in Phoenix I would feel very infringed upon.
Did you know that in most states it is already the law that you must carry identification when in public or you can be charged with vagrancy?
Is sticking a piece of paper in your pocket such a price to pay? I hear the Gestapo asking for papers, but that is not what is happening here. You are making a very simple thing into the Armageddon. I never leave home without my drivers license. Never have. I don’t feel picked on in any way. Why do you find this so horrific?
The_Thunderer
New member
The bolded part of your quote is just wrong... and you're not the only one doing it. BEFORE you can be stopped and asked for your "papers", you have to be doing something ILLEGAL. Everyone forgets this one little fact... You have to be caught breaking some law FIRST in order for you to be subjected to any asking for "papers".
So, if you're going to mug someone on the way to the store for that soda, then sure... you should be carrying your "papers". :idea::idea::idea:
LOL. I put "papers" in quotes because it just is so darned silly that so many are in uproar for a law that Arizona just created when MEXICO and California (see previous posts) have similar laws. I've read that even our Canadian (Canadien, eh?) friends have a similar "carry your 'papers' law" as well (although I can't find where I read that at the moment).
My brothers and I live here in AZ and my parents visit us from Texas all the time. We are worry free as there's nothing to be afraid of if you're here LEGALLY - which we all are.