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Calls to boycott Arizona are spreading like a virus

Thanks Fred, I saw that too and was thinking 'Obviously she didn't read through the entire thread'.

Also, saying that Wade's point is moot because illegal immigrants are unable to obtain the example amenities is incorrect. They CAN obtain many of those suggest items. Just ask Bank of America. All they have to do is select the ‘Spanish speaking’ button on the phone and many of those amenities are available to them and they don’t need to provide a Social Security Number like we do to obtain them.
 
Illegals can buy homes, get valid driver's licenses, have bank accounts, and every other amenity legal citizens enjoy- it's called owning a fake SS card and it's scary cheap and easy to obtain. Not to mention knowing the right person and calling in a few favors. Imagine this: longing to become an American, going to your countries embassy or even online, applying, waiting, hoping, and then finally getting that green card no one can take away from you- it's called become a legal American citizen and it's not a lot to ask. Arizona's law in reality is the same as our federal laws that aren't enforced. They can not be stopped because of the color of their skin, but instead must be breaking some other law which I for one find ridiculous because if your here illegally your already breaking the law:)
 
Did you know that in most states it is already the law that you must carry identification when in public or you can be charged with vagrancy?

Oddly enough Wade, the province I lived in in Canada ( for the most time anyways ) had a very similair law.. Go figure..

I've read that even our Canadian (Canadien, eh?) friends have a similar "carry your 'papers' law" as well (although I can't find where I read that at the moment).

Its called a Drivers Permit, or a Gov. issued Photo ID.. Sort of sounds like the same thing that takes place on this side of the border don't? Sure they tend to be more lax and less anal on the Canadian Side with things, but I would not be suprised to see and hear of changes regaurding ID.. I am quite sure there are similair laws enactted through out the Western Nations..
 
The thing is I want to be upset about something and I am sure this new law is just terrible and as soon as I get time to read it I'll point out those bad things to you. For now I'm just saying the things that I think are probably wrong. Don't confuse me with facts.
 
What is freaking sad about this whole thing right now, is that it has been swept under the rug due to the oil spill in the gulf.
 
To be fair, all people should be asked to prove citizenship every time an official of any kind spots them. If that's not what's happening then there's some kinda discrimination going on. Why isn't that the law then? Well, that would be unreasonable and undesirable. So what's the solution? Only cause that annoyance for a small group of people. Thus, discrimination. It's un-American.

Don't judge all us Arizonans :)
 
"...all people should be asked to prove citizenship every time an official of any kind spots them..."

I don't think I would like THAT idea, lol! But I wouldn't mind it if I only had to prove citizenship every time I break the law. THAT doesn't sound too onerous, or at all discriminatory. If that is what the law says, I don't see a problem.
 
It's not what the law says. It's if you break the law (or they have suspicion that you may be breaking the law) AND they have "reasonable suspicion" that you are here illegally. That's the argument, how can you have this suspicion and not be racial profiling?

So yeah, that's my point... if you treat everyone the same way there's no issue. But when you harass one group more than the norm there's a problem.
 
I have had a policeman approach me in an official capacity maybe a dozen times in my life. He has asked to see my drivers license every time. I haven't felt like he was picking on me.
 
That's true, Wade.

I can't imagine any law enforcement agent stopping you for possibly breaking the law without asking for ID. That is ALWAYS the first thing they ask to see. IF your ID looks suspicious, phony, etc, THEN they would probably ask for further ID, with or without the new law. I am not sure IN PRACTICE how it will work. But this seems like the logical way it would work. I am sure there will be some abuse - there always is when humans are involved. And I never trust government more than I can throw it. But I don't see how this will make a difference in a bad way. I will still withhold judgment until I see the results.
 
I hate to bring this thread back from the dead but this is funny. The picture is titled "Border Patrol".
 

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Article from the New York Times

Justice Dept. Will Fight Arizona on Immigration

The Obama administration has decided to file a lawsuit to strike down a new Arizona law aimed at deporting illegal immigrants, thrusting itself into the fierce national debate over how the United States should enforce immigration policies.

The federal government only occasionally intervenes forcefully in a state’s affairs, and it carries significant political risks. With immigration continuing to be a hot issue in political campaigns across the country, the Arizona law, which grants the local police greater authority to check the legal status of people they stop, has become a rallying cry for the Tea Party and other conservative groups.

The lawsuit, though widely anticipated, was confirmed by an unexpected source: Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who answered a question about it from an Ecuadorean TV journalist in an interview on June 8 that went all but unnoticed until this week.

Noting that President Obama had publicly objected to the law, Mrs. Clinton said, “The Justice Department, under his direction, will be bringing a lawsuit against the act.”

A spokesman for the Justice Department said the matter was still under review, but other senior administration officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said a decision had indeed been made and only the details of the legal filing were still being worked out.

These officials said several government agencies were being consulted over the best approach to block the statute, which, barring any successful legal challenges, takes effect July 29. At least five lawsuits have already been filed in federal court, and civil rights groups have asked a federal judge to issue an injunction while the cases are heard.

A State Department spokesman, Philip J. Crowley, said Mrs. Clinton’s comments, made during a visit to Ecuador’s capital, Quito, were meant to answer deep qualms about the law in Mexico and other Latin American countries. “It is important to recognize that this has resonated significantly beyond our borders,” Mr. Crowley said.

Still, in focusing on Arizona, the Obama administration is making a politically risky calculation: the move could help repair America’s image south of the border but open the administration to charges that it is trampling state’s rights. And a legal battle could energize the right during an election year.

At home, polls show that a majority of Americans support the law, or at least the idea of states more rigorously enforcing immigration laws. But Latino groups and elected officials have denounced it as an affront to Hispanics. Several large demonstrations, for and against the law, have been held in Phoenix and other cities.

Legal action has been widely expected, given Mr. Obama’s repeated statements against it, as well as the concerns that Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. has voiced in interviews and news conferences.

In late May, Justice Department lawyers traveled to Phoenix to speak with lawyers from the offices of the state attorney general, Terry Goddard, and Gov. Jan Brewer about the possibility of litigation. Mr. Goddard, who is seeking the Democratic nomination for governor, and Ms. Brewer, a Republican who is running for re-election, both say a federal lawsuit is unwarranted.

In a side drama, Mr. Goddard on Friday took his office off the case, bowing to the wishes of Ms. Brewer, who had said his opposition to the law would make it difficult for him to defend it. Mr. Goddard said his decision had nothing to do with the Justice Department’s plans.

Mrs. Clinton’s disclosure — which came to light after her interview was posted by a political blog, therightscoop.com — quickly became fodder for political campaigns in Arizona. Republicans, led by Ms. Brewer, seized on the notion of a domestic policy decision’s being disclosed on foreign soil.

“This is no way to treat the people of Arizona,” the governor said in a statement. “To learn of this lawsuit through an Ecuadorean interview with the secretary of state is just outrageous. If our own government intends to sue our state to prevent illegal immigration enforcement, the least it can do is inform us before it informs the citizens of another nation.”

The federal government from time to time has successfully brought claims against laws it deemed discriminatory or infringing on voter rights. It also has a history of suing states on issues related to prison conditions and school desegregation, said Erwin Chemerinsky, a constitutional scholar at the law school at the University of California, Irvine.

While Arizona’s law has drawn opposition from those who worry that Hispanic-Americans and legal residents will be mistaken for illegal immigrants, legal scholars say the case will more likely to turn on whether it intrudes on federal immigration authority.

In 2007, the Bush administration successfully sued Illinois after it passed a law barring employers from using a federal electronic system to verify the immigration status of would-be employees.

Racial profiling claims may be difficult to prove. The United States Supreme Court, in a 1975 case, ruled that immigration officers can include racial or ethnic identity among factors in deciding whether to check someone’s right to be in the country.

Still, the federal government could argue that the law, in effect, gives one state more regulatory power in immigration than another and raises thorny diplomatic problems abroad, said Jack Chin, a University of Arizona law professor.

The theory of this law, he said, is that Arizona is “borrowing federal regulatory authority to help carry out federal policy.” But he said, “If the federal government comes in and says you are interfering, I think that is going to be a problem for the state.”

Though not a legal issue, administration officials said the law, passed in April, has tarnished America’s image in Latin America. They point to a new poll conducted by the Pew Research Center, which found that only 44 percent of Mexicans viewed the United States favorably after Arizona enacted the law, compared with 62 percent before that.

On a four-day trip last week to Colombia, Ecuador and Peru, Mrs. Clinton was asked about the law at every stop. When she sat down with reporters from two local TV channels in Quito last week, it was the subject of the first question from both. One reporter suggested that the law might encourage violence against those suspected of being illegal immigrants.

Mrs. Clinton said that the administration was committed to changing immigration policy and that Mr. Obama had spoken out because he felt the law infringed on federal authority. Speaking to the NTN channel, she said flatly that he would challenge it.

Administration officials traveling with Mrs. Clinton did not immediately recognize she had made news. The process was slowed further because the State Department did not publish a transcript of her remarks until June 11, two days later, because of technical glitches.

While the crossed wires left people at the Justice Department shaking their heads, Mrs. Clinton’s aides were unapologetic. The State Department had urged the Justice Department to announce the suit earlier this week, so Mrs. Clinton would not steal her colleagues’ thunder, one official said.

And, as Mr. Crowley, the spokesman, pointed out, “There is clearly an international aspect to this.”

And perhaps another thread topic

Another Bad Idea From Arizona

Not satisfied with a shameful new law that invites, indeed demands, racial profiling, some Arizona politicians are now pushing for a law that would deny citizenship to babies born in Arizona whose parents cannot prove they are legal immigrants.

The 14th Amendment, adopted after the Civil War, states: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.” It could not be clearer.

The Constitution apparently does not matter to these politicians. They also do not seem to care that Arizona is earning a national reputation for intolerance and racism — and if it continues this way will pay an economic price in boycotts of its lucrative tourism industry.

When State Senator Russell Pearce first started pushing for a law that requires police forces to stop and check anyone who appears to be an illegal immigrant, he was dismissed as a crackpot. The legislation passed both houses of the Republican-controlled Legislature with distressingly large majorities. Gov. Jan Brewer then proudly signed it into law.

Now Mr. Pearce is at it again with this new proposal, meant to end what he calls the “inadvertent and unforeseen” consequences of the 14th Amendment’s citizenship clause. He pins it all on the phrase “subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” arguing that the babies of illegal immigrants — like the children of foreign diplomats — do not have full allegiance to this country, and thus do not deserve automatic citizenship. It is a spurious argument.

Mr. Pearce’s bill, we fear, is likely to get a sympathetic hearing in Arizona’s Legislature. Governor Brewer told interviewers this month that illegal immigrants should leave and take their citizen children with them.

President Obama, who has criticized the first Arizona law, has so far failed to use his power to block it, though his administration is preparing a lawsuit to do so. He needs to reassert sole federal authority over a rational and humane immigration system, and stop Arizona and other states from creating a crazy quilt of harsh statutes, some crazier than others.

Until the president and all people of conscience stand up to these bullies, they will keep pushing. The Constitution and the civil rights of thousands of people must not be violated this way.
 
What a waste of time.


I do hope they pass the second law though.

I spent all weekend in Arizona. My last name is Ramirez, I have dark skin, I showed my ID everytime I needed to and was on my way. They didnt send me to jail for being Hispanic. Oh wait maybe that's because I am a frickin LEGAL CITIZEN!!!!!!!
 
By the way Markus, I checked the emails you posted on Snopes and they are from 2006 (old data). The numbers may be different now, possibly worse than back then. ;)
 
White House: Senator Kyl Not Telling Truth About Immigration Reform Conversation

White House officials challenged the veracity Monday of an account of a private conversation Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., said he had with President Obama.

On June 18, Kyl, the Senate Republican Whip, told a North Tempe Tea Party town hall that in an Oval Office conversation between the two of them about securing the US-Mexico border, "here's what the president said: 'The problem is,' he said, 'if we secure the border, then you all won’t have any reason to support ‘comprehensive immigration reform.’ In other words, they’re holding it hostage. They don’t want to secure the border unless and until it is combined with ‘comprehensive immigration reform.’”

The White House Monday rejected Kyl's account.

“The President didn’t say that and Senator Kyl knows it," White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer told ABC News. "There are more resources dedicated toward border security today than ever before, but, as the President has made clear, truly securing the border will require a comprehensive solution to our broken immigration system.”





Kyl spokesman Ryan Patmintra said the senator stood by his account, which he said was "about as straight forward as you can get."

"There were two people in that meeting, and Dan Pfeiffer was not one of them. Senator Kyl stands by his remarks, and the White House spokesman’s pushback that you must have comprehensive immigration reform to secure the border only confirms Senator Kyl’s account."

Kyl's account was first reported on the conservative website Red State.

To back up its claim that President Obama has already moved forward on securing the southern border, the White House provided background on President Obama's "Strategic and Integrated Southwest Border Strategy," stating that in the past year the US government has doubled the personnel assigned to Border Enforcement Security Task Forces, tripled the number of Immigration and Customs Enforcement intelligence analysts; and required the Department of Homeland Security to -- for the first time -- screen all southbound rail shipments for illegal weapons, drugs, and cash; among other steps.
 
To back up its claim that President Obama has already moved forward on securing the southern border, the White House provided background on President Obama's "Strategic and Integrated Southwest Border Strategy," stating that in the past year the US government has doubled the personnel assigned to Border Enforcement Security Task Forces, tripled the number of Immigration and Customs Enforcement intelligence analysts; and required the Department of Homeland Security to -- for the first time -- screen all southbound rail shipments for illegal weapons, drugs, and cash; among other steps.

And yet the US Border Patrol has not been hiring for quite a while now...:shrugs: If they are bumping up the numbers of people down there, wouldn't they need to hire more people to cover their slots where they are being pulled from? Or is my logic completely wrong?
 
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