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Cedar Bedding...

DragonBoy

DragonBoy

Crazy Cornsnake Breeder
I know cedar has been discussed in some old threads here but I have noticed more and more places seem to be bedding on cedar again since it seems to naturally control black mites which are the bane of many a rodent breeder/snake keeper. I run a closed system here with no new rodents being purchased now in over a year. It seems from time to time I get either an infested bale of pine bedding (or maybe it is the mazuri feed) and wind up with mites all over the place. I break out the sevin dust for the rats and mice, and heaven forbid they have reached one of the snake rooms (some of them only eat live). Anyway that being said, many say the cedar bedding keeps the mites out. I know it works for fleas in the cats and dogs, so maybe it is really an example for the rodents. But will the cedar oil on the rodent be detrimental to the snake? That seems to be the $64,000 question I cannot find an answer to. Thoughts from other members? With 21 rat pens, 12 tanks of asf's, and 5 tubs of mice this can become a problem very quick.
Thanks
 
I could not find a clear answer either. I again looked at some online bedding studies and several of them had results clearly supported the groups doing the study. There seems to be several studies saying that cedar alters liver enzymes, but no clear cut info as to actual practical consequences.

If you do a casual internet search you will see numerous rodent type chat boards with posts that warn against cedar. I discounted these posts because I wanted to see actual studies. Sometimes on the internet, groups get ahold of an opinion and it spreads like wildfire without much critical thinking.

I'm hoping some conclusive studies or actual experience will be posted here by more experienced keepers.
 
Yes. It is potentially bad for both reptiles and rodents. Check it out here.

Also, from personal experience, when I was younger and didn't know any better I used cedar for bedding with my fancy mice colonies. There was very little internet access at the time and I had no idea that it was bad. Several of my mice presented with respiratory infections, and most that did died. I eventually found a small animal vet and was able to treat the others (and it wasn't cheap), and that's when I was told about the dangers of cedar. I switched to a paper-based bedding and never had any reoccurring issues.
 
Basically its the oils that are bad. Mice clean themselves like cats do. Therefore ingest the oils and dust. It breaks down liver function over time. Liver helps cleans the blood. Blood is then digested in our snakes as well as any oils and dust still on the mice. The potential is there for liver failure. I havent found any study on the effects of contaminated mice causing issues but we wouldnt eat meat that was potentially unsafe. So I choose not to risk it.
 
My mice got respiratory issues from breathing in those oils. I wouldn't see it as a far stretch to believe the same can happen to snakes and other reptiles. Either way, I'm not going to risk it. If the oils kill mites as well, I might consider using it temporarily during treatment (it's no worse than the other harsh chemicals you might expose your snake to), but I definitely wouldn't use it on a long-term basis.
 
Thanks for all the replies...
The interesting thing about the article at www.anapsid.org/cedar is that Ms. Kaplan ultimately lumps cedar and pine into the same category. I struggle with that only because I have used pine for years with no ill effects. I know her data from the research studies was quoted correctly but it would leave those of us who raise rodents on a larger scale in the poorhouse having to buy some form of non wood bedding which is 10x more expensive than a bale of pine or cedar.
I have no intentions on switching to cedar permanently but I think in the short term it would be a viable solution.
 
Just a side note, do you consider baking or freezing your bedding first? It can help fight against mites and many people recommend it. That way you can use safer bedding without the risk of mites. It's something I personally recommend as I have done it since I started using aspen bedding and have never had a problem. Although, having large amounts to freeze/bake can become cumbersome. Just an idea though, hope it helps. And good luck with your problem, wish I could be of more help. :)
 
I'm not saying it's right or wrong. But growing up we had MANY guinea pigs. We always used cedar shavings with no ill affect. I don't know if I would do it again, but I do know with our many pigs it certainly didn't seem to make a difference in their health.
 
Cedar and pine are related. To my knowledge pine just isn't as potent. I could be wrong though; I have no evidence to support that.
 
Kaminoke said:
Cedar and pine are related. To my knowledge pine just isn't as potent. I could be wrong though; I have no evidence to support that.
Click to expand...

I believe this is correct, though atm I'm no coming up with any great articles to support it.

I will say that a lot of my horse owning customers mix a little cedar in with their regular bedding and find that effective for bug control, so maybe just mixing in a small handful would be enough. Personally, I'd rather just freeze my bedding when I get it.
 
My wife and I raise rodents. Many different kinds of rodents. We have done it successfully for years. Throughout the years though, we have experimented with many things, in an attempt to save a little $$ and control odor. We primarily use CareFresh, which is on the pricier side of the litter spectrum. For a while, we switched to pine and some of the mice colonies began to develop respiratory problems. So we now stick to the CareFresh, but will on occasion mix Aspen in with it. So far, no more problems.

So, I dunno. To me, using pine or cedar is the same as cohabing or feeding live. Sure, it works for some people, without problems but it's too big a chance for me to take. We work really hard on raising, keeping and showing our animals to take that chance again.

Wayne
 
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