Eremita said:
I am happy to assume for the sake of argument, along with yourself, that a Disreputable Breeder will breed them and then there will be kingsnake genes in some corn snakes, such that you cannot tell by looking at them. Mind you, I’m not sure how that Dystopian future differs from our present, but whatever. However, the notion that it is by some reckoning ethically better to kill an animal than it is to perhaps be involved in an unfortunate future that will happen anyway, and that you (not personally you but "ethical intergrade breeder" you) are by your practices actively promoting (as in, “Look! You can breed corn snakes and kingnakes and get something interesting!” in a world where you believe other breeders are deceitful and over-opportunistic) seems more like you are trying to alleviate your sense of guilt than to heroically, ethically create a brighter future for our offspring. Which makes me think that it is not those who care to share a different notion of right and wrong than the “kill ‘em” crowd that are bringing thoughts of guilt into the picture.
Hmm... so by YOUR reasoning, I should also not bother to recycle, since regardless of what I do, the rising human population is going to kill the planet anyway? No, in this case, I feel that I DO have an ethical reason to maintain pure blood lines, regardless of what "everyone else" does. And I don't feel guilty about it... mainly because I am not even a breeder (yet). But when I am, you can be sure that if I have to cull a hatchling for any reason, I will do it. Will I feel bad about it? Yes. But being a responsible breeder means making decisions that are at times quite difficult. I am not sure guilt is the word for it though.
Eremita said:
So, by your system, after a couple of hundred years or so of breeding dogs just the way you say, can you assert that our purebred dogs are healthier than ever? Like, by rigid control over breeding, we now have superdogs with no bad genes? I’m not sure if your system has a historical precedent, even though it seems like there ought to be one by now. How is your control over the situation greater by having killed a snake?
Nope, not at all what I was saying. What I was trying to point out is that in the dog world, they have a third option- which is remove the chances of the "defective" animal from breeding and passing on its genes (by spaying/ neutering), and then sell it to a home where it will be a wonderful pet. Unfortunately, we snake hobbyists do not (yet) have that option- if we did, I'd be the first to suggest THAT as opposed to culling an animal that could lead a relatively healthy life.
As for a historical precedent, yes, there used to be one, even in dog breeding. Dog breeders would not allow dogs to be bred that carried undesirable traits. For instance, a gun dog who was blind or deaf was of no use to people in the field, as it could not hear commands called to it, nor naviagate its way through unfamiliar territory. Such dogs would have been "culled" or euthanized as soon as the defect was discovered. The reason why this system WORKED in historical times is because much more depended on having good working bloodlines, and animals free of defect- whether your family ate this week would depend on your working dog. Whether your sheep made it to market would depend on your working dog. When your life
depends on an animal, you want to be certain that that animal is "the best," and as perfect as possible.
In modern times, we have become "softer." We try to avoid bloodshed when possible, and when we cannot, we feel bad about it. I don't mean to say this as a bad thing, but we also tend to distance ourselves from the idea that eliminating animals of poor breeding from the gene pool is an inherent task in breeding- if you CHOOSE to breed, then you must accept the fact that along with wonderful new traits, you will also find bad traits, and it is your responsibility as an ethical breeder to ensure that those traits are not propagated, regardless of what traits they are. It is wonderful that we can now remove traits from the gene pool of dogs, cats and other larger animals without loss of life, but the reality of breeding smaller creatures- be they snakes or fish- is that the only way to ensure that those traits are not passed on is to euthanize the animal.
Yes, there will be people who choose not to do so, for many reasons. Some people may be uncomfortable with having an animals death on their hands. Other people simply don't care, and want to get the most $$$ for their animals as possible, regardless of breeding goals and the species as a whole. If and when I begin breeding, I will do so with the understanding that eventually I will be forced to take the life of a hatchling snake who won't feed willingly, because producing non-feeders is not something that will be a part of my business plan. I do not plan on getting into the hybrid market, so thankfully, that is not something I will have to pursue. However, I do understand and appreciate the need for culling in that case. I wish that hybrids were not popular and such a need did not exist... but it does, and those breeders must accept the consequences for their choices as well.
But rest assured... as a responsible breeder, I will strive to produce only the highest quality hatchlings for my customers, and to me, that means animals of good health and ravenous appetite. If they fail to meet either of those two prerequisities, then I would most definitely not feel comfortable passing them on the my customers (who are most likely going to be local beginners). It's just good business... selling most people a struggling hatchling does not a repeat customer make. :shrugs:
By the way, did any of you catch the thread on that corn hybrid who was sold to the buyer as a pure corn snake, an amber? I've linked it below. The animal has already been bred several times, and the resulting offspring will now be hybrids. This is an animal that has been passed along probably several times, and who knows if the original owner intended that... but this case illustrates exactly why I would chose not to dabble in hybrids, and certainly if I did, I would make sure than any "normal looking" types did not leave my care, or were culled.
What is this [snake]?