Dealing with "humanists"

[dan803]

Well unless this person is Harry Potter and can speak to snakes, they don't know crap. Don't even take them seriously.

 

[vetusvates]

Re the OP, on New Year's Eve, 1-31-93....I made a resolution that I would no longer engage people like said "idiot" mentioned in the original post. I rarely use words like stupid, fool, stupidity, or foolishness....but whenever an individual pulls that trigger, I am usually shifting gear to flee in the opposite direction.

 

[Dreamsnake]

So far I've only met people curious about snakes. One jerk told us we should set our python free, but he didn't know what a ball python was and thought we got a twenty foot snake.

I have vegan family members. They are some of the meanest people I know. They wont consider anyone who eats meat as a ration person, only a "meat crazed fool." They're also letting God or Jah decide how many children they should have. If they didn't live in a Winnebago I wouldn't have a problem with that.

 

[wretchedprocess]

As a wise (?) man once said fairly shortly before he blew his head off with a shotgun, "It's okay to eat fish, 'cause they don't have any feelings."

I know a couple of very nice, very tolerant vegans. It's regrettable that they're in the minority, but they definitely do exist.

On the original subject-- if your snakes are any morph at all, it would be enormously more difficult for them to survive in The Wild (TM) than in your house. I like to spoil my kids and give them decent-sized cages to slither around in and things to climb, should they be so inclined. But with that, weekly parasite-free and healthy food, and carefully-maintained temperature and humidity, I shouldn't think they would complain even if they could. Alas, I don't speak Snake, but so far as I can tell mine are doing pretty well. And yes, the people challenging you are definitely anthropomorphizing, and also romanticizing the Natural World, which is much crueler than they think. Ask them if they've ever had minor surgery, or taken antibiotics. Ask them if they wear glasses or contacts. Then ask them how much freer they would feel without these things, dumped into the woods and made to fend for themselves.

A nice warm glass house doesn't sound so bad, when you think about it that way.

 

[hippiebrian]

That sounds more like a pescetarian. I mean, can you really call yourself a vegetarian if you are eating animal, any animal (last I checked fish were still an animal). I think people just think it looks better if they call themselves a vegetarian.

That "pescetarian" always cracked me up. Do they mean all they eat is fish? If that was the case, one could almost call me a "pizzatarian"! If you don't eat red meat, say you don't eat red meat. I don't eat red meat, but it's a health thing for me, not a moral issue. But anyways...:bang:

 

[hippiebrian]

Someone recently approached me about my keeping of snakes and referred to my new python as a "poor creature" who will have a "miserable" life according to "snake standards" because I decided to "keep her as a pet".

How irritating and disrespectful! I really didn't know what to say. How would you folks handle such a pretentious idiot?

Back to the original, I think we need to remind people that, at least in most cases, certainly in mine as I would never keep a wild caught individual, our pets are just that, pets. They are bred in captivity just like dogs and cats and in no way are they capable of even surviving in the wild! These are pets, no more no less!

Of course, educating them about how snakes act in the wild (basically, they do nothing) and comparing that to how they act in our vivs (basically, they do nothing! lol). If they can't understand that, or are so set in their ways that they can't really learn anything, drop it. It will get no where anyways.

Or, maybe just do this: :flames:

 

[oneirogenesis]

As a wise (?) man once said fairly shortly before he blew his head off with a shotgun, "It's okay to eat fish, 'cause they don't have any feelings."

I know a couple of very nice, very tolerant vegans. It's regrettable that they're in the minority, but they definitely do exist.

On the original subject-- if your snakes are any morph at all, it would be enormously more difficult for them to survive in The Wild (TM) than in your house. I like to spoil my kids and give them decent-sized cages to slither around in and things to climb, should they be so inclined. But with that, weekly parasite-free and healthy food, and carefully-maintained temperature and humidity, I shouldn't think they would complain even if they could. Alas, I don't speak Snake, but so far as I can tell mine are doing pretty well. And yes, the people challenging you are definitely anthropomorphizing, and also romanticizing the Natural World, which is much crueler than they think. Ask them if they've ever had minor surgery, or taken antibiotics. Ask them if they wear glasses or contacts. Then ask them how much freer they would feel without these things, dumped into the woods and made to fend for themselves.

A nice warm glass house doesn't sound so bad, when you think about it that way.

You've hit the nail on the head I think. We forget that human beings willingly live in the same captive conditions as our pets. We are quite happy in our climate-controlled houses and apartments with access to medical care and food that has been previously inspected for our health and safety. We protect ourselves from the elements and from dangerous animals and diseases. We raise our children in the same environment and they adapt to a life sheltered from the wild. Even if we freely choose to move away from an urban setting to a more natural one, we access electricity, build structures for ourselves and our animals to take shelter in and farm our land. I would hazard to guess that if a snake had the level of awareness to understand the pros and cons of living in captivity vs living in the wild, and had a choice, it would probably take heat mats, air conditioning and shelter over exposure to predators and the elements.

 

[Allalaskan]

So far I've only met people curious about snakes. One jerk told us we should set our python free, but he didn't know what a ball python was and thought we got a twenty foot snake.

You should have told them that, THAT is why Florida is having such a problem with pythons. So many people HAVE let their snakes loose and now they are causing havoc on the local wild life.

 

[wilomn]

Or, something along these lines:

So, do actually know anything about reptiles in general or snakes specifically? I mean personal knowledge, not something spoonfed to you by someone with an agend?

No. Interesting. And yet you, with no facts or experience in reptiles at all and snakes in particular feel comfortable preaching to me about how I, who have done the research and do have personal experience and am damn sure I am doing right by my snake, am neglecting or hurting my snake which you have just told me you actually have nothing about.

Would you like to go do some research or shall I just leave you to wallow in ignorance, as seems to be your preferred method of learning?

It's worked well for me a number of times.

 

[wilomn]

You should have told them that, THAT is why Florida is having such a problem with pythons. So many people HAVE let their snakes loose and now they are causing havoc on the local wild life.

Yes, the spreading of unverified and possibly incorrect information is JUST what we need.

If you aren't ROCK solid in the info you're giving out, silence will prevent you from future embarrassment.

 

[kathylove]

"You should have told them that, THAT is why Florida is having such a problem with pythons. So many people HAVE let their snakes loose and now they are causing havoc on the local wild life."

If that statement was true, then why did a university study find that all but a couple of a large sample of 'Glades pythons were very closely related to each other? (http://www.usark.org/uploads/FloridaBurmGenetics.pdf)

I am sure that a few people really have released pythons in southern Florida over the years, as well as allowed escapes. But if multiple releases were the main source of the established population, then the genetics would be quite varied, and not closely related to each other.

It is a shame that even members of our own hobby believe the lies that are being spread by humaniac organizations, such as H$U$. "We" (reptile keepers) are not totally innocent of ALL wrongdoing, but there is no need to give our industry / hobby more of a black eye than it truly deserves - IMHO, of course.

 

[smallet]

Kathy: Has it ever been theorized then where they might have come from? Or if it was a small batch how they exploded so quickly?

I was lead to believe by a program on Oasis channel that the theory was that they were mostly releases that had found a way to be fruitful and multiply. But that article seems to prove different.
The amount of varied information on certain topics as I am learning can seem to be rather biased. So it seems hard to decipher fact from fiction.

 

[kathylove]

I am sure a certain number came from people who let them go, as well as escapes from both importers and owners. There were already some being found before Hurricane Andrew in '92, but many people believe that it was the hurricane that really got them started in numbers. Apparently, there was a particular dealer with flimsy facilities who lost over 900 baby Burmese pythons during that event.

True, it is still the pet trade that caused it. But to me, there is a big difference between a FEW irresponsible owners and dealers (especially during a once in a lifetime weather event) compared to the HUGE STREAM of owners dumping pets every day that the humaniacs would have you believe. There will ALWAYS be a few irresponsible people in every hobby or every industry you can name. But animal rights extremists like to pretend that thousands of people dumping pythons in the Glades is an every day occurrence, and that is why they claim that nobody should be allowed to have one.

 

[smallet]

Wow. 900 would certainly be a good start to a population explosion. And I am not so sure that anyone was prepared for the devistation of a that Hurricane. So I am not sure how the public can cry foul (I know that if people are against it that any incedent is proof). But it is not realistic. Thank you for the information.

 

[Dreamsnake]

You should have told them that, THAT is why Florida is having such a problem with pythons. So many people HAVE let their snakes loose and now they are causing havoc on the local wild life.

My husband sent that guy a polite message explaining the current invasive species problem within the Everglades. He included the hurricanes as the causes for the majority of the problem species as well as illegal animal trafficking, but I don't think the man read any of it.

My mom let me play with the garden snakes when I was a kid, but she never allowed them in the house. She simply thought reptiles didn't make good pets.

I will say that some people shouldn't have the big snakes. One of my friends kept two ball pythons in the same tank with a retic. He finally rehomed the retic after he tryed to eat one of the ball pythons for the second time. That's right, he wrestled the ball python from the retic's mouth once, then put them back in the tank together.:bang: He only has one snake now.

 

[Daenerys]

You've hit the nail on the head I think. We forget that human beings willingly live in the same captive conditions as our pets. We are quite happy in our climate-controlled houses and apartments with access to medical care and food that has been previously inspected for our health and safety. We protect ourselves from the elements and from dangerous animals and diseases. We raise our children in the same environment and they adapt to a life sheltered from the wild. Even if we freely choose to move away from an urban setting to a more natural one, we access electricity, build structures for ourselves and our animals to take shelter in and farm our land. I would hazard to guess that if a snake had the level of awareness to understand the pros and cons of living in captivity vs living in the wild, and had a choice, it would probably take heat mats, air conditioning and shelter over exposure to predators and the elements.

Oh my god. I never thought about it that way! Wow... :eek1:

 

[hippiebrian]

My husband sent that guy a polite message explaining the current invasive species problem within the Everglades. He included the hurricanes as the causes for the majority of the problem species as well as illegal animal trafficking, but I don't think the man read any of it.

My mom let me play with the garden snakes when I was a kid, but she never allowed them in the house. She simply thought reptiles didn't make good pets.

I will say that some people shouldn't have the big snakes. One of my friends kept two ball pythons in the same tank with a retic. He finally rehomed the retic after he tryed to eat one of the ball pythons for the second time. That's right, he wrestled the ball python from the retic's mouth once, then put them back in the tank together.:bang: He only has one snake now.

Some people shouldn't even be allowed to be anywhere near animals!

 

[Allalaskan]

Yes, the spreading of unverified and possibly incorrect information is JUST what we need.

If you aren't ROCK solid in the info you're giving out, silence will prevent you from future embarrassment.

So I guess those Pythons in the ever glades swam accross the ocean to get here hu?

 

[Allalaskan]

And yes I understand alot of those were escapes from pet stores and such during hurricanes, how ever it is very common to hear of people letting their animals loose when they get to big.

There have been many documented cases of animals being released into the wild that were not native there.

 

[wilomn]

And yes I understand alot of those were escapes from pet stores and such during hurricanes, how ever it is very common to hear of people letting their animals loose when they get to big.

There have been many documented cases of animals being released into the wild that were not native there.

Prove it. How many and what sources are your numbers coming from?