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Disrobing together!

Lennycorn

Lennycorn

Just see the truth
Just an odd observation!
My snake are of different ages and size. But are housed on top of eachother. My butter start eatting after a two and a half month break and my amel was a month long but started up again a few weeks before my butter? But they are now both in blue together! And the odd part is that they shared their shed cycle time before too!
The hold thing about them timing their shed cycle together seems just odd to me.
 
Could be something to do with pheromones. Women working in close proximity usually start the menstrual cycle at about the same time (I think due to pheromones), could this be a similar phenomenon? :shrugs:
 
Paradox I just had that same thought; snakes that are housed together might start shedding around the same time due to the same reasons menstrual synchrony occurs.

Not only that, but I noticed personally that snakes in shed sometimes act irritable, striking on occasion, and antisocial, much like PMS. Coincidence? :sidestep: ;)
 
All of my snakes seem to go blue and shed within a week of each other, or so. I have 3 kings and 3 corns that are always VERY close, my BP is uaually right around the same schedule, though less frequent, and I have not had the pleasure of seeing my baby BCI shed just yet.

FWIW...they are NOT all housed in the same area...not even the same room. I have 2 corns and 2 kings in a rack, 1 corn and 1 king in seperate glass vivs(in 2 different rooms), and my BP in a third viv. The BCI is seperate, too, but since he hasn't shed yet, I have no idea if he will "fall in line", or not.

With that being said, I question the "pheromone theory", if only because being of different species, the pheromones *should not* be effective over the physical changes of a different species of snake...I would think...You would need to "trick" a king to mate with a corn, and there is definitely heavy pheromone activity during this time. If one can't effect the other during breeding, I doubt there would be a strong enough presence during something as simple as shedding. I would sooner think it is due to being on very similar, if not exact, feeding regimens...
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one who's notised this! Most of mine shed together. My niece (RGAnimalLover on here) has three snakes and they shed within the same week too.
 
Interesting theory tyflier. Maybe someone who feeds some of their snakes on different days could have something to bring to the discussion (If there are any people on here who change feeding days for their snakes)?
 
tyflier said:
I question the "pheromone theory". I would sooner think it is due to being on very similar, if not exact, feeding regimens...
Click to expand...
I tend to agree with Tyflier on this one.

Snakes generally shed their skins based on growth. If the snakes are fed around the same time (and with similar sized feeders? :shrugs: ), their should be a similar growth rate.

If "pheromones" were the cause, then an adult and a hatchling housed together would shed at the same rate. So either the adult's shedding would speed up, or the hatchling's would slow down. Which is not te case.
 
Joolz68 said:
Snakes generally shed their skins based on growth. If the snakes are fed around the same time (and with similar sized feeders? :shrugs: ), their should be a similar growth rate.
Click to expand...

As stated from my first post, before my snakes when off feed, my amel was fed every ten days an adult mouse and my butter a wean every seven days but both share shed cycle. :shrugs:
And most snake grow at there on rate so the timing of the shed cycle should be a hit and miss thing!
 
Lennycorn said:
As stated from my first post, before my snakes when off feed, my amel was fed every ten days an adult mouse and my butter a wean every seven days but both share shed cycle. :shrugs:
And most snake grow at there on rate so the timing of the shed cycle should be a hit and miss thing!
Click to expand...
Back in January (before your amel went off feed), you said you were feeding it an adult p/t every 7 days (same time span as the butter)
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46289


Lennycorn said:
My snake are of different ages and size.
Click to expand...
Age of the snakes is not that much of an issue, because snake grow at different rates. And judging by the pics of your snakes: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49658, they look similar in size. :shrugs:
 
Ginafish said:
Paradox I just had that same thought; snakes that are housed together might start shedding around the same time due to the same reasons menstrual synchrony occurs.

Not only that, but I noticed personally that snakes in shed sometimes act irritable, striking on occasion, and antisocial, much like PMS. Coincidence? :sidestep: ;)
Click to expand...
ROLMAO! Hey!
 
Ive had something quite simular happen.. yesterday my mantis moulted... today aunt flow has visited me and Loki is due to shed today...


Im in cycle with my animals.....
 
I've noticed this with my snakes. I've been keeping track of the sheds of my 4 corns and the two females, but not necessarily the males, will shed with in 3 or 4 days of each other everytime. The one male that I have Had for a number of shed cycles still hasn't "caught on.;" He seems to be on his own schedule and has been growing faster and putting on more muscle than the 2 females.

My other male I've only had for one shed, so I can't tell what he's going to do, although that one shed was just a week after my 2 females.

I have a feeling it may be a combination of the different possibilities mentioned. I'm sure feeding timing (and there for growth rates at least partially) have an effect, but I think that pheromones must have some sort of influence between corns as well. This explains why my females have the same schedule and why tyflier's corns and kings are also on the same schedule.
 
Here's a little wrench in the mix...

4 days ago, my female '06 normal shed. Today, my BP shed, my female '05 anery motley is pre-shed, my Cali king is blue. The '06 normal and the BP are in 20L Critter Cages right next to each other. The anery Motley is in a rack in the same room, and the Cali King is in a 30g Critter Cage in a different room.

I also recieved a little '07 normal from Joe Pierce 4 days ago, and he shed the day he arrived...same day as the '06 normal...though they had not been in the same house as each other prior to either one shedding...not even the same county, but Joe and I do live in the same state... :rolleyes: :sidestep:

I have to wonder if all of the theories, inculding my own, aren't just BS. Think about it...there are only 7 days in a week. The average shed cycle is roughly 10 days, give or take. Younger snakes(up to 2 years, or so) shed approximately once a month, 30 days(on avergae) in each month.

So if the "blue phase" lasts approximately one week(or so), and they do this every 3 weeks, it seems to me that random chance and occurence would provide for what appeared to be an uncanny similarity in shedding schedules. With multiple snakes shedding roughly every month, and taking more than a week to go through the opaque phase...it seems to me(though I suck at math and can't even come close to figuring the odds...) that the odds of shedding within a week of each other are greatly FAVORED, over shedding at completely different times. One week on either side of a different snakes shed...that only leaves one week a month when a snake could shed and NOT be considered "at the same time"...

Does a math wizard want to try and figure out the actual odds??
 
Well, I can't quite be called a "math wizard" but here's my calculation. Say there are 30 days in a month, on average. I want to find the chances of 2 snakes sheding in the same week (this DOES NOT mean being in blue, or preshed during that time, only actual sheding counts!!!). Snake 1 sheds on day "N". For snake 2 to shed within a week of snake 1 snake 2 must shed between the beginning of the 7 days prior and the end of the following 7 days. That's a 14 day span.

probability with 2 snakes: 14/30 or about 47% of the time. For 2 snakes a little under half the time both snakes will shed within a week of each other.

Now with 3 snakes. Again "S1" (snake 1, but I'm tired of writing snake) sheds on day "n" and S2 has a 14 day span. Now, S3 must shed within 14 days of BOTH SNAKES making the math horrible.

If S2 sheds exactly a week from S1, then S3 has only a 7 day span in which to shed (the week between the 2 other snakes), but it S1 and S2 shed on the same day then S3 has a full 14 days to shed. I'll work out these 2 probabilities:

14/30 (the probability for S1 and S2)X 7/30 (the probability for S3) = 98/900 = about 11% of the time for a worst case scenario.

14/30 X 14/30 = 196/900 = about 22% of the time for a best case scenario

you can see the huge drop in chance after we add just one more snake. if you have 7 snakes shedding at the same time the probability will easily be in the single digits. Actually, for a best case scenario the probability would be:

.48% of the time.

The probability, although it may seem high, is really extremely smallonce you get above 3 or 4 snakes. This is all looking at the chance of actually shedding, not being in blue, but my records only show the day of shedding, not the blue so i think that is okay. There has to be another factor at work for the things we are seeing to be happening, especially with 6 or 7 snakes.
 
Ok, I'll throw another wrench in the odds... we have, currently, 58 cornsnakes in the house. 17 of which reside in one room, and the other 40 within one closet just outside the room. (We have several other snakes too, but for the sake of keeping things a bit simpler, we'll pretend we just have the corns for now.) All of the corns are various ages and of course of only two sexes.

Here's the breakdown of the ages:

1 - '03
5 - '04's
9 - '05's
43 - '06's

Now, the 04's and 03 all shed every few months, the 05's every other month (most times) and the 06's at least once a month. On the average we end up with at least ten sheds in any given week with maybe two weeks out of the year with no sheds at all.

All of our snakes are fed on feeding schedules according to size and age. Meaning the older/larger 06's and smallest 05's are all eating one mouse every 7 days on the same day, the other 06's are eating every 5-6 days at the same time, and all of the 03's, 04's, and the rest of the 05's are eating every 10-14 days on the same days.

Occasionally some of the feedings fall on the same day - it happens.

The sheddings we find, in any given week, do not come from just snakes that are fed on the same day or even the same age. Though, granted, most of them are close because they are all close in age and represent the largest part of our collection.

The shedding cycles coincide frequently too, where on feeding nights 3-5 snakes will turn out to be in various states of blue. This is usually 3-5 nights out of any given week (given the variety and spread of our feeding schedule).

I think, once you have enough snakes (say numbers enough to compete with Rich Z., Kathy L., and some of the other larger breeders out there) the odds greatly increase rather then decrease for the chances of snakes shedding within x amount of days of each other.

Growth rate, feeding schedules, and age are all factors that can contribute to this, that's just what I've noticed and my thoughts on the matter though.

Jenn
 
Yeah, I agree.

Mrs InsaneOne said:
I think, once you have enough snakes (say numbers enough to compete with Rich Z., Kathy L., and some of the other larger breeders out there) the odds greatly increase rather then decrease for the chances of snakes shedding within x amount of days of each other.
Jenn
Click to expand...

I wasn't saying that when you have more snakes the chances of having some snakes shed on the same day goes down, I'm saying that when you have more snakes the chances of ALL your snakes shedding on the same day goes down. With many snakes it is definitely going to be more likely for multiple snakes to be shedding on the same day because you have more snakes shadding on a "random" (it's not really random, but you know what I mean) day, so more possibilities is going to give you more of the right outcome.

Oh, and I find it amazing that you have 3-5 snakes shedding every week!! When my snakes shed it's still a "special event" because it happens so much less frequently. I wonder how often a snake sheds for Rick Z or Kathy Love. I guess I never really thought about how it would be for the bigger breeders.
 
tbtusk-

Thanks for doing that math. I would have [never even come close to figuring all that out. In fact...I still don't know HOW you did it, though I believe firmly in your equations and their accuracy...I just couldn't do it myself(math and I are sworn enemies ;))

FWIW...5 days ago, Luna(MBK) shed, 3 days ago Adonis and Odin(corns) shed, 2 days ago Igor(Cali) and Simon(BCI) shed. Currently Aphrodite(corn) is clearing up from blue, and Soleil(Floridana) is clearing up from blue. I expect both to shed within 3 days. That is 7 out of 10, all different ages and species...and in different rooms of the house, are either shed or expected to shed within 8 days of each other...That only leaves Sammi Snake(corn), Princess Tula(BP), and Oreo(Cali), none of whom are blue nor expected to shed soon...but they will probably shed within a week of each other, if my "math" is correct ;)...

Oh...and I imagine breeders at the level of Rich and Kathy probably clean sheds out of the bins as often as they do poo...pretty much daily, would be my guess...
 
I guess I'll throw my two cents in.

Snakes in capitivity have a lot of varables. But, the one thing that all these snakes have in common is human owners. Everyone, including men, go through a 28-34 hormonal cycle. Men don't notice it as much as women. It could be that the snakes we own pick up on our hormones and adjust their cycles to ours.

We are Snake People and the snakes may be trying to match our biological cycles. :shrugs:

Just a thought from a crazy Indian who loves her snakes. :crazy02:
 
suecornish said:
I guess I'll throw my two cents in.

Snakes in capitivity have a lot of varables. But, the one thing that all these snakes have in common is human owners. Everyone, including men, go through a 28-34 hormonal cycle. Men don't notice it as much as women. It could be that the snakes we own pick up on our hormones and adjust their cycles to ours.

We are Snake People and the snakes may be trying to match our biological cycles. :shrugs:

Just a thought from a crazy Indian who loves her snakes. :crazy02:
Click to expand...
You know, you could be partly right... I can't add my own experiences to this though, unfortunately - or fortunately depending on who you ask. At least, for the most part, our snakes do not get moody during their 'time of the month' lmao


Jenn
 
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