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Do Corn Snakes Love?

I started talking about animals in general feeling love because someone mentioned that animals don't love and I just truly don't believe that to be the case... I asked about people's opinions about snakes... I never really expected anyone to argue that emotions are purely human, but that ended up being a topic of discussion, which is fine because I love a good debate and I think it's a fascinating topic :) But I don't think that snakes love the way that dogs or cats might love, or elephants or geese or wolves or parrots or dolphins or even cuttlefish, maybe, I don't know XD

However, I truly believe that my Seamus appreciates me. He seems to get the idea that I make the food appear, and that I'm the one who takes him out to let him explore and get some exercise. He seems to appreciate that I make things he enjoys happen-- and also I am very, very warm and comfy to sleep on. And that's wonderful :) And handling him definitely calms me down and makes me feel happy, so there is a bond there I believe, at least at some level :)
 
I don't know anymore about the dynamics of snake love then anyone else on this thread but I think the most important thing is that you feel loved by him. Whatever motive he has for showing you affection the end result is real and only you and your little guy will understand where that "Love" comes from. Outside opinions can only give you a limited perspective. I have had my little Frank for only three days. He was put in his viv and disappeared into the substrate. I haven't seen him since and yet I feel extremely protective of him. I can't stop thinking about him, and actually miss him when I'm at work. Is that rational? Who the hell knows? Who really cares? Does he love me back? It's not important right now. What is important is that I feel good loving him and that happiness makes me a better friend, co-worker, mother, etc... Your snake loves you because you see the evidence of that love. It's not scientific, rational, or explainable. But... It's the bond you have with your friend.
 
I'm not a scientist, behaviorist or field researcher, but the way I see it is, if it can noticeably and outwardly mourn for it's dead young, then it can love.

And another thing, I really don't think there will ever be a satisfactory answer to the question "Can animals love?" for everyone, because what love means to humans is no doubt unique to humans. Animals cannot speak, so we do not know what love, if they can feel it, means to them. We really do have incredibly unique brains that allow us, through experience and emotion to form conclusions. This is unlike most other species. We understand and rationalize our emotions. Animals do not. But we also do not live in the wild, we do not have to hunt for our food, we do not have to hide from predators on a large scale and we certainly do not have to live as either lone or pack animals, because our relationships are also unique to the human condition. This is part of the reason I really don't think we will ever understand what other species are feeling other than the basics (happy, sad, afraid, in pain, panicked)
I mean, think about it, scientists all the time still find species of animals that have formed their own language and/or means of communication beyond our range of comprehension when they didn't think it was possible.
So no, I do not think speculating as to what your animal feels (specifically talking about mammals here, not snakes) is necessarily anthropomorphizing. There is nothing wrong with the speculation, and if she wants to believe that her snake loves her, then who is it hurting exactly??
As long as there is a mutual respect, it shouldn't matter how the individual interprets that respect.
 
Forcedexile said:
lulz, ok yeah i'll give you that i opened the door to all animals in this discussion but thats just my opinion. and how did i respond in a way that offended you? all i said was that i was done having a discussion about a theoretical situation of animals feeling love. this is why i hate having a discussion where the answers are based upon opinion. people get too sour when their opinion isn't agreed with by everyone else. and i wasn't proven wrong because there isn't a right or wrong answer. all i said was that i was done, and reiterated my previous opinion, and then yeah i might have gotten a little sarcastic with my last sentence. as far as being too "closeminded" as you say, no i'm not because once again this is all a matter of opinion and not facts. i can accept that you think your (insert animal here) feels all the emotions that you do but i'll tell you i think you're wrong everyday. so once again, someone pull a Dr. Dolittle and i'll believe you. and one last comment about your response. more specifically the last sentence in your response.

don't put words in my mouth and step off.
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all i have to say is youre a sarcastic egotistical person, who believes your opinion is fact. and i did prove you wrong, if an animal can feel sorrow and grief and mourn their dead loved ones, then they most certainly loved them. you need to age a little in maturity and wisdom. you are coming off as a bratty child. "step off" sorry this isnt the movie 8 mile, "brah". im done with you. please dont bother retorting, because i will just block you and not read your response. ta'ta.
 
However, I truly believe that my Seamus appreciates me. He seems to get the idea that I make the food appear, and that I'm the one who takes him out to let him explore and get some exercise. He seems to appreciate that I make things he enjoys happen-- and also I am very, very warm and comfy to sleep on. And that's wonderful And handling him definitely calms me down and makes me feel happy, so there is a bond there I believe, at least at some level
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I actually think it's a huge privilege to be trusted by an animal that's largely governed by survival instincts.

The fact that he's happy to stay with you and isn't trying to get away, is a wonderful thing.
 
I do not think animals can feel love the same way we do, but that is not to say they do not feel love. I have seen in my dogs that they love me, and have even had a couple ready to die for me. But I think the way they feel "love" is differently then we do since their brains function differently.

As far as snakes, since they are a sole solitary animal I dont know for sure if they feel love. Im sure they feel content, and sad (pain), and fear but for an animal that avoids other animals except its prey items I would be hard pressed to say that they feel "love" at all. Their brains are wired differently, on survival. They are not social and do not crave the companionship of other snakes like other animals do.

So I guess in my opinion, that snakes do feel emotion, but I really dont think they are capable of feeling love. that is my OPINION based on what I have seen first hand and read from online and books based on how their brain functions, I am not saying its a fact but just my opinion.
 
visceralrepulsion said:
all i have to say is youre a sarcastic egotistical person, who believes your opinion is fact. and i did prove you wrong, if an animal can feel sorrow and grief and mourn their dead loved ones, then they most certainly loved them. you need to age a little in maturity and wisdom. you are coming off as a bratty child. "step off" sorry this isnt the movie 8 mile, "brah". im done with you. please dont bother retorting, because i will just block you and not read your response. ta'ta.
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sarcastic, yes. egotistical, no. let me copy and paste in some definitions so you can understand.

e·go·tist (g-tst, g-)
n.
1. A conceited, boastful person.
2. A selfish, self-centered person.

show me any post that proves that i'm conceited, boastful, selfish, or self-centered and i'll completely agree with you.

I never said or even implied that my opinion was fact, I just kept calling it "my opinion".

and once again, you can believe an animal can feel sorrow or grief for a lost or dead loved one and i'll believe what i want and we'll go our separate ways.

I've looked over all of my posts on this thread and then i looked at yours and while I was the first to throw some sarcasm in my statements you were the first to make false accusations of me being full of myself or being too immature for my age. you were also the first to say your opinions were facts. and if i want to be hardheaded and not accept any part of your opinion then that's my choice but dont try to make me out to be the bad guy here. the only "bratty child" here is you, coming off like your opinions are, and i quote, "facts and knowledge".

I had to google "8 mile" in order to know what you were trying to say about me. i haven't seen the movie and when i responded with "step off" it was to try to point out that you should probably just drop the situation and not get so, and excuse the pun, emotional about it. It was not a quote from the movie. I looked it up and no where in the script does anyone say "step off". I believe "brah" is something surfers say, not wanna-be rappers.

Have fun not reading my response...even though we all know you will.
 
I think you two should take this private. No point in bashing each other on some one elses thread. You have gone off topic to bashing each other.

Something that seems to happen fairly often on this forum. People disagree and instead of having a friendly debate it turns into an all out bash fest.
 
I wonder why my You Tube won't work!



Okay! I was saying, speaking of lower brain function!!
 
I feel horrible for that chicken :( I was looking up videos of Dekay's snakes once in my spare time (CUTE! :D) and came across a highly disturbing and inhumane video on youtube of a rattlesnake with its head cut off, and because of their anatomy the head was still alive and trying to strike... I wasn't right for a week, it really upset me :'(
 
thelivingoddity said:
So I've heard people say that snakes can't love, and I would like to know what everyone else's opinion on the subject is.

I know that my little guy always seems to come out when he figures out that I am home/awake and stares at me VERY INTENTLY until I open his viv, then he comes out of his own accord and goes straight onto my shoulders and is very snugly. In fact it seems he is always staring at me-- ALWAYS. He also seems to gravitate far more towards me than other people when I let others handle him (though he is very nice when handled by anybody), and he seems to seek comfort from me at times, like after being probed at the vet.

So I'd like to know-- is anyone else's corn so snugly and puppy-dog-like? I'd love to hear some stories of corns being adorable!! :) (OR snakes in general!)
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Are you interesting to snake? Specific snake, not to be confused with 'snakes in general'? And are you interested in specific snake, mutually, beneficially, in return? While attending a recent hour long program on Aspergers http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&source=hp&q=aspergers++snake , there was a mention of snakes, so I chose to do more research. And while there are some similarities between Aperrgers and Autism, they are different, as are snakes, which are also deaf, which is not to say nor imply anything else. There seems to be some connection between living organisms of different kinds. "Love" is a human-made "word". Perhaps 'mutual appreciation' is more fitting in this instance. I have found snakes in the wild which were aggressive towards me when I aggressively attempted to chase them down and take them in my hands. I have also slowly, very slowly, approached wild snakes, and slowly taken them into my hands without upsetting them or freaking them out.
And I have released them. It doesn't matter to me if it's an extreme blue garter snake or a w/c corn or a black racer (notoriously snappy), my personal understanding of snakes and their behavior towards those (humans) who want to say "hello" and respectfully, considerately, pick them up, admire them, and have some happy mental feelings towards them, appreciate the individual for who it is, not what it is, and let it go on its way-
there are some things which cannot be expressed with words here.
I tend towards appreciating all life forms, in the moment. The human colloquialism is to "Live in the moment" or "to (just) take it as it comes"; There is a higher plateau of understanding between unrelated organisms, and it can easily be realised, if one is willing to give up 'words', and 'values as dictated by banks & money'. More of a live and let live philosophy. I have held wild venomous and non-venomous species of animals, and sometimes, they come back to me. There's currently a yellow ratsnake which I've released 3 times now, which keeps coming back into my house, to me, up here, upstairs, where the computer is. His name is now 'Boomerang'. The last time I released him, it was 9 blocks away by the creek where it flows into the Tomoka River. But he keeps coming back. Should I feel guilty about keeping him in a rubbermaid box? I dunno, I don't want him to get into pesticides in the non-snake areas of the house. But to answer the question "Do snakes love"?
I'm afraid the jury's still out on that one. But I believe they 'mutually appreciate'.
 
bitsy said:
I actually think it's a huge privilege to be trusted by an animal that's largely governed by survival instincts.

The fact that he's happy to stay with you and isn't trying to get away, is a wonderful thing.
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So true, it makes you feel special!
 
Allalaskan said:
I do not think animals can feel love the same way we do, but that is not to say they do not feel love. I have seen in my dogs that they love me, and have even had a couple ready to die for me. But I think the way they feel "love" is differently then we do since their brains function differently.
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Kudo's for that phrase!

@Nancy; did not get your point with the video of the headless chicken....?
 
There are simple and complex emotions. I for one believe that they cannot "love", but they are able to recognize their caregiver and show some sort of affection. But, who knows? Maybe they can love. :D

 
SnakeAround said:
Kudo's for that phrase!

@Nancy; did not get your point with the video of the headless chicken....?
Click to expand...

I guess my point was that the bird's brain was so primitive it could lose nearly the entire head- eyes, beak, tongue- leaving a stump- (when they show pics of what was cut off, it's not a little piece, it's the whole head!) and still function- eat, walk around, interact with the other chickens, roost, take dust baths- he just lived outside with his friends when he wasn't traveling to fairs. So it doesn't take a very advanced brain to get along. (I just found out about him for the first time last week- pretty amazing, but disturbing).
 
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