Dog attack

[Snakewhisperer]

I think the owners should be prosecuted. After the dogs escape one time, and either chase children or maul/kill pets, then there needs to be a zero tolerance law for the next time.

If the attacks take place off of the owner's property, or there is loss of life, then the dogs are classified as dangerous and are required to be put down. Prosecution is at the discretion of the victim/victim's family.

 

[Iguanagirl8662]

We had neighbors for a while that had Pits....
They attacked my dog once. Then about a year later, they broke through their fence and charged myself and my son, backing me up to my own front door with teeth bared, growling and lunging at us the whole time. I called the cops. The owners at first denied it could have been their dogs - they were supposedly still in the yard. Cops checked and of course they weren't there. Called animal control. Finally tracked them down and found out they had attacked another woman and actually ripped her thumb off and had killed someone else's small dog.

I have a fear of them ever since. (Except for Nanci's Bella). I am not one to believe that a breed is bad, but that experience really left me with a bad taste for Pits. I know it is more than likely the owners fault in my case, but I can't help it. It was one of the most terrifying experiences I have ever had.

However, that being said, any dog can bite. Even labs, golden retrievers and other "family friendly" dogs are listed in dog bite statistics. It really is all about how the dog is raised. I have a rottweiler and she is the biggest baby in the world. I cannot imagine her ever biting anyone, yet rotties are also often listed as a "bully breed".

It is completely understandable that you be wart about them after that I was attacked by a female Rottie and her owner had two males that got out and tried to attack my dad and kill our goats. The next year my dad brought home a puppy from those dogs and I was terrified of it and told him to take it back I didn't want a puppy but then I held it then I was in love ever since then she has been my best behaved dog.

 

[ArpeggioAngel]

I was trying to research dog bite statistics for this thread. Most of the info I am coming across is that in regards to attacks that lead to death - yes - the larger bully breeds do have the most. But in a way, with attacks, that would be expected since they are larger. However, in just dog bite statistics, not necessarily resulting in death, there seems to be a wide range of dogs responsible.
I did find a piece of this article very interesting:

A floppy-eared, innocent-looking breed may be one of the world’s most aggressive dogs, according to a new study that found English cocker spaniels tend to be more hostile than other breeds.

“In our country and according to our database, the English cocker spaniel is the breed that shows more aggression problems,” lead author Marta Amat told Discovery News.

Amat, a researcher in the School of Veterinary Medicine at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, and her colleagues analyzed 1,040 cases of canine aggression brought to a nearby veterinary teaching hospital from 1998 to 2006. Of those cases, the majority of cases were attributed to English cocker spaniels, Rottweilers, Boxers, Yorkshire terriers and German shepherds.

Probing the data further, Amat and her team discovered that English cocker spaniels were more likely than other dogs to act aggressively toward their owners as well as unfamiliar people. In contrast, dogs with reported behavior problems from other breeds tended to act aggressively toward other dogs. Among the English cocker spaniels, golden varieties and males were found to be the most hostile.

The findings, published in the latest Journal of Veterinary Behavior, confirm an earlier study conducted by a separate Spanish team from the University of Cordoba, which also found males and golden English cocker spaniels were more aggressive than females or those with black and mixed-color coats.

In terms of coat color, Amat explained that the coat pigment melanin shares a common biochemical pathway with dopamine and other brain chemicals involved in the control of aggressive behavior.

Amat also noted that “inadequate handling by the owners due to their lack of information on dog behavior” is a contributing factor.

 

[LBoz]

The hard part with this whole conversation is that you have one group who doesn’t want to have their children eaten and another group who loves their dogs. If you and set your emotions aside for just a second and consider this. All dogs, even loved and well trained dogs, have a bad day. When a poodle has a bad day the cuff of my pants get torn. When a pit bull has a bad day a little girl dies.

I don’t think you can argue with that. I don’t think you can justify that.

Exactly! YBH said "it's always these dogs that are getting the bad press...." (not an exact quote!) but it's those dogs that are usually the ones attacking the kids. These children were in their own yard. I don't care if it was a pit or a poodle, the dogs needed to be put down and the owners should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law - including - murder if that child dies.

I'm sorry to those of you that love your pits...I've met some sweet ones as well...but the "I've never met a pit with a mean bone in its body..." crap doesn't fly anymore. Whether they are or are not to be owned by a "newbie" isn't the point. It doesn't matter WHO owns them, they do have the ability to maim and kill as evidenced by this and all the hundreds of other stories we read all the time, as well as the actual study Wade quoted above. There obviously are HUNDREDS of victims out there who would scoff at your "pits are so sweet" theory.

 

[Hallie]

I think you should read up on the origins of the pit bull, and presa canario. Both breeds were developed for fighting.

Actually, I have. And on the majority of sites that I've seen (and in the books on pits I have at home, seeing as I was doing my research before getting one), they were bred for their ability to restrain large game and/or work with livestock. It was only after sports like bull-baiting and bear-baiting were made illegal that people started using them for dog fighting, and subsequently breeding them as fighting dogs.

 

[Lovin2act]

I was trying to research dog bite statistics for this thread. Most of the info I am coming across is that in regards to attacks that lead to death - yes - the larger bully breeds do have the most. But in a way, with attacks, that would be expected since they are larger. However, in just dog bite statistics, not necessarily resulting in death, there seems to be a wide range of dogs responsible.
I did find a piece of this article very interesting:

I have a nice big ol scar on my face thanks to one of those little guys (Cocker Spaniel). I was playing with him one second, and the next he ripped into my lower lip outta nowhere. Just snapped on me. You can see the owner behind me there with the classic look of horror on her face

 

[luckycharm318]

Anyone who wants to keep any animal as a pet, should only do so after acquiring a good amount of knowledge about the animal they wish to keep.

I agree that, often times, it is not the animal's fault, but a result of poor/no training. Typically, bad people create bad dogs, which is unfortunate, but often times true. If you start training a puppy at a young age and keep after it, you will end up with a well trained dog. The most well trained dog I've ever seen just happens to be a Pit Bull named Lilly.

Just because a certain breed has the potential to be dangerous, does not mean that every single dog that belongs to that breed, is in fact dangerous, and should be done away with. This is like the pending Python Ban, is it not? Some species of constrictors are considered to be potentially dangerous, and therefore, no one should be allowed to keep them.

I think some of you folks are being quite hypocritical here. We will fight to save the pythons and boas, but we will then turn and cast the first stone upon those who own potentially dangerous dogs. Snake owners, fishermen, hunters, and other pet owners, are all reaching towards the same goal, to keep the things that they love to do, legal. Please refer to Kathy Love's thread on this topic.

I do not believe that people who own potentially dangerous animals or want to conserve the freedom to own such animals, should be pointing fingers at people who own other potentially dangerous animals... "People who live in glass houses should not throw stones."

 

[VickyChaiTea]

As someone who has had a pit bull try to attack her and had her dog get in a fight with said pit bull right in front of her- it's not the breeds fault.

I think if there's any evidence saying that pittbulls attack more often than other breeds, it's probably true... because people train them to. Or don't train them, ending with a territorial dog on the loose because people are idiots. Sure, if you buy a pitt from someone who breeds them for fighting, he's more likely to be dog aggressive. But if you buy from a breeder who breeds them as pets, you'll get a nice dog. People buy pitts as a status symbol, they think it makes them look tough. And whats tougher than a big muscular dog you've encouraged to bark and bite and attack?

There is nothing in the pitt bulls genetics that will make them "snap" all of a sudden. That's just not true.

 

[Michael823]

I'm quite shocked by some of the responses, especially considering we are usually the people who try to promote the understanding of misunderstood animals. People are the most dangerous creatures on earth, and if given the poor social interactions that these Pit Bulls were given, these people would commit far worse crimes. Pit Bulls are naturally a dog that bonds well with people, and most of them will never so much as snarl at a person. It's up to us to provide our family a safe and controlled environment, and dogs should be 100% a part of that structure. If you raise a dog the right way, it will never experience what it even means to be aggressive. Pit Bulls are by nature a more strong willed dog, and they need positive activities to compensate for their motivated minds. If you don't provide structure and a release in the form of exercise, of course there's going to be cause for danger. But it can be controlled, and if done since the dog was a young puppy, you can completely form the dog's every way of being, and I truly believe this. Even some of the Michael Vick Pit Bulls were able to be rehabilitated, and have an extraordinary bond with people.

http://www.peoplepets.com/news/hear...k-pit-bull-enjoying-new-life-as-therapy-dog/1

There is no reason to believe that Pit Bulls are a dangerous breed, and it can't be proven until a study goes further into the people behind the Pit Bulls, and beyond the front page bite victim stats. Like, How many of these Pit Bulls went to structured training? What were the punishments to these dogs when the misbehaved? Were they exposed to children? If so, was it in a positive way, and since an early age?

There are far too many variables to say with any conviction that Pit Bulls are not to be trusted. Looking at Comoxcorns link, you could even draw even more questions. Why is it that there are so many more bites in the southern states? Is a certain culture more popular there, that may be behind the large amounts of bite victims?

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

Bottom line... there is no certainty in any of these studies, and none of the studies, news reports, etc... cover in any length, the dogs behind these attacks, the people behind these dogs, and the motivations behind these people.

 

[Emily1188]

A properly bred pit bull is not aggressive to humans. Ever. In any way. Ask anybody with legitimate experience in the breed.

They were bred for fighting. This is true. However, do you know what pit fighting entails? You have to reach into the pit and pull apart two dogs locked on to each other. This meant one thing and one thing only - ANY pit dog that would turn and bite someone, either while being pulled from another a dog or having it wounds patched up, was shot. No excuses. If fact, if they bite anyone, ever, they were done. Manbiter = dead.

A properly bred APBT is never human aggressive. Dog aggression is an entirely different subject, and in this breed, should not and does not indicate potential aggression to human beings. Dog aggression is common in pits; human aggression should be an unforgivable sin. I know people who are big into the breed that have and will kill dogs who turn on people - even so much as a growl. That is the REAL American Pit Bull Terrier. Their urge to fight other dogs (and no, it is not beaten into them) does not make them more dangerous to a person than my dog's urge to kill squirrels. They are separate, and while dog aggression and human aggression can occur simultaneously, they are not necessarily linked nor indicative of each other.

That said, there are all the wrong types attracted to the GROUP of breeds collectively known as "pit bulls". It is not nearly as simple as "It's all in how you raise them." That is grade A BS, sorry. However, many of them are improperly bred, leading to unpredictable temperaments. That does not change the fact that a proper pit bull is a great dog and loving companion. It also does not change the fact that scumbags can and will F*** up any breed of dog through bad breeding and ownership practices. Take away pit bulls, and they will find something else. You can manipulate ANY breed through bad breeding.

Before people start suggesting we would be well served by eliminating the pit bull, I would suggest you do a lot more research. For one thing, several countries have attempted to do so, with terrible results. The Netherlands lifted a nearly 20 year ban on pit bulls in 2008 because it did... nothing. It did not improve their dog bite statistics whatsoever. Then there is the nagging fact that before pit bulls were the "bad boy", it was Rotts (80's ish)... then Dobes (70's ish)... and before that, German Shepherds (for quite a while). You can read newspaper clippings of terrified people from the 1940's demanding that the dangerous and vicious "Alsatian" or "police dog" be eliminated before they kill each and everyone one of our children, those low bellied, slinking monsters! If there was something so inherently "bad" about pit bulls, why did nobody notice them back then? In fact, the pit bull was an immensely popular dog at the turn of the century. Ever the seen the old Little Rascal's? Petey was actually Lucenay's Peter, the first registered American Pit Bull Terrier in the United Kennel Club. So, if these inherently bad dogs are just that... then why were they once upon a time, a family dog and child's companion? (Nevermind the shocking reality that champion pit fighters were often simultaneously considered excellent companions for their owner's children.)

Then, of course, there is the issue of what constitutes a "pit bull", which refers to a group of breeds that varies depending to who you talk to you. The media, of course, uses "pit bull" to mean, "any dog that bites somebody." I've seen some really, hmmm, liberal applications of the term "pit bull". I once saw Akitas that bit someone described as "Japanese pit bulls". Borzois as "long haired pit bulls"... and one sad old lab mix as "pit bull type dog". If it has a square muzzle and it bites somebody, it will be labeled as a "pit bull" in the news. And sometimes, not even that is necessary for them to decide it is a pit bull.

And then... there is the non-trivial fact that according to the American Temperament Test society, the groups of dogs collectively known as "pit bulls" (this time including APBTs, American Staffordshire Terriers, and Staffordshire Bull Terriers) score almost identically to Golden Retrievers - they both pull about an 84% pass rate. You can check that out on their website, if you'd like.

Deciding pit bulls need to be eliminated based on choice experiences and media portrayal is like... deciding that large constrictors should be banned and anybody that likes them is a weirdo and a freak, based on the news and media. It's a knee jerk reaction and it's ignorant. The subject of dog attacks and "dangerous" breeds is one that warrants a whole more research than you get from the news.

This is a very emotive subject for me and I hope have not offended, but I cannot see this ignorance spread any farther. I've honestly only be able to touch on the tip of the iceberg here.

 

[Michael823]

Excellent post, Emily! I especially like where you said "scumbags can and will F*** up any breed of dog through bad breeding and ownership practices. Take away pit bulls, and they will find something else. You can manipulate ANY breed through bad breeding.". I completely agree. It's not the breed, it's the humans behind the breed. Remove the breed as proof, and you'll see that those same people will find another breed to use for their own despicable means.

 

[dionythicus]

I think the owners and animal control are liable in this case. In Tacoma, we have no reliable resource for animal control. Its run by the Tacoma PD and they do nothing about problems. If these dogs were reported to animal control numerous times, I think there is a legal obligation for animal control to step in do something. Its like someone going around the neighborhood threatening people with a knife or gun and the cops doing nothing. There was clearly danger present and the authorities did nothing. Can you tell I'm pissed off at our own animal control?

As for small dogs being more aggressive, its true, but they don't cause the damage large breeds do and that's why bigger breeds are considered more dangerous.

 

[yellowbellyhippy]

I just wanted to add that I have raised PB's for the last 10 years with my children. I have 4 kids and Ive never experienced aggression AT ALL. My 2 year old throws tantrums and will bite our pit and she will whimper but walk away! Im also surprised that snake owners are saying the breed should be done away with. Pretty shocking.

 

[wade]

Over 30 dog attacks per year result in the death of an American.

of 264 canine homicides from 1982 to 2006 in the USA and Canada, a total of 65% of the deaths were caused by pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes.

Pit bull terriers and Rottweilers together appear to commit about two-thirds of the reported serial attacks on humans (65%), and more than three-fourths of the rampage attacks (79%), ANIMAL PEOPLE has learned, in a review of files on approximately 1,500 dog attacks in cases in which a person was killed or maimed, or police shot the dog

I hear all of the dog lovers and I understand what you are saying. Michael is adamant that it’s not the dog’s fault. Bad training, bad homes, bad people. That may all be true. Michael, would you please be the one to go talk to this little girl and her parents and explain that to her. I’m sure that will make it all right.

I don’t advocate outlawing the breed or dog or snakes for that matter. I don’t want the government in my life any more than it already is. But those of you who choose to own dogs like pit bulls and Rottweilers have got to understand you are taking on a very large responsibility. Nobody wants to be responsible for someone being torn to shreds by a dog. Nobody buys a dog with that intent. But it happens, and it may be your dog that decides that today is a good day to kill someone. That is the decision you made when you bought that dog. You keep it on a leash, keep it in a fenced yard, keep it in the house. Get it trained by Caesar Romaro. When the day comes and you are looking at the bloody little girl, we can all so that you did everything right.

 

[ComoxCorn]

YBH, I don't make any claims that all pit bull owners fit the same demographic profile. But I do think there is a much higher incident of serious injury linked to this breed more than any other, mainly because of the lack of ability the owner has in properly training such a dog. They do have special needs.
Here is a link to finding from Harris County, Texas (Houston area) regarding pit bulls. Please scroll down to the bottom of page six that addresses primarily pit bulls.

http://www.hcphes.org/vph/Regional%20Veterinary%20Public%20Health%20Challenges.pdf

 

[Rich in KY]

If someone trained a Chihuahua to be an aggressive dog and it got loose and attacked someone, no one would be calling for the breed to be banned.

Do not blame the breed. Blame the owners. Owners of dogs that attack pets or people should be prosecuted.

 

[ComoxCorn]

If someone trained a Chihuahua to be an aggressive dog and it got loose and attacked someone, no one would be calling for the breed to be banned.

Do not blame the breed. Blame the owners. Owners of dogs that attack pets or people should be prosecuted.

Chihuahua's fit into that little nippy dog category. If they decide to bite, they don't turn it into a life threatening mauling. Pit bull attacks usually don't consist if single bites. They are quite viscious when they occur.

Really, is it just media that makes out pit bulls to be potentially dangerous that has caused almost every metropolitan area in the U.S. and Canada to single out pit bulls and several other breeds that fit into the "dangerous" category as breeds of special concern for public safety?

Comparing this breed to the media hype of reptile safety is comparing apples to oranges. There truely is a lot if misguided hype as to the safety of the reptiles we keep. one death in Florida not so long ago caused a lot of negative reaction to our hobby, but pit bull attacks across North America seem to be a weekly occurance, with serious injury inflicted, and occasional, death. That's not even mentioning the attacks on other animals often with fatal consequence to small neighbourhood pets.

 

[vetusvates]

My father raised pit bulls in the 1970's-1980's. I was bushwacked into taking care his "Hobby" that became my "Job". He even sucked me in by letting me call one mine. I trained "mine" to walk with slack on a leash, walk with no leash, respond to voice and hand signals, and most importantly to herp. He really didn't understand herping, but loved to be at my side. Was house-broken and loved to go camping and sleep in my sleeping bag.
But I digress.
As I am wont to do, I researched the heck out of the "breed"...the closest thing being the UKC American Staffordshire Terrier. Pit bulls have been raised/selectively-bred to kill other dogs, bears, bulls (google bear-baiting and bull-baiting, and dog-fighting), etc.,........since Elizabethan times. That would be Elizabeth I (1533-1603).

I am never shocked to see a skilled pointer point.
I am never shocked to see a skilled retriever retrieve.
I am never shocked to see a skilled herder herd.
I am never shocked to see a pit bull do what they were bred to do.

Sure I have trained Brittany Spaniels, Italian Greyhounds, Labs, German Shepherds, Poodles, Blue Heelers (I have two...they will herd anything, LOL), countless others, and Brutus (half dachshund, half lab) to be house-trained, first walk on a leash, then walk at my side off a leash, and respond to voice and hand signals. The IG even retrieved and responded to field signals.

I am very and sorry for this child and her family.
But when even the best trained canine clicks, and instincts kick in, like the sense of the hunt or the taste of blood, no dog selectively bred for 500 years for a specific purpose should surprise anyone by living up to the standard of his breed.

NOTE : Yes, my father and all his friends fought the dogs. Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Texas, Oklahoma. It broke my heart. It made men into savages. Drinking, betting, cheering, carousing. Disgusting. But when this breed "clicks", and you will know it when you see it, they will/must fight to the death.
Among other things, this is one of the many reasons that my father and I do not speak to this day.

Even Tilicum, the killer whale, has long periods during which he demonstrates having had excellent training.

 

[wade]

Michael, I see you hiding down there. I hear your love for dogs and understand that. I would like to hear your response to what Eric or I have said.

 

[Michael823]

Wade, I see where you're coming from... in a sense. I understand that Pit Bulls do have certain traits that can lead to aggression, and that aggression can be deadly for an innocent person caught in the moment, but, Correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like you're saying that all Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, and similar breeds, are capable of eventually attacking someone, regardless of how they were raised, trained, and their personal history of behavior. That is where I disagree. I trust that my dog will never have a bad day and bite me, just as I trust that my grandmother will never have a bad day and stab me with knife.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I believe with all of my heart that dogs can be the best companions that a person can have, and I feel that the trust between my dog and I, is so strong, that I have no fear of ever being bitten. And I would feel the same way if I was to bring a Pit Bull into my home.

I see no reason for doing away with any breed, and I don't think that it would change the fact that there are still going to be people out there who will own dogs that attack. Do I wish that certain people couldn't own certain animals? Yes! Just as I wish that certain people wouldn't reproduce. It's an unfortunate part of the society we live in, but I haven't lost any faith in animals acting in a certain way, when situations force them out of being able to trust people. I just lose more faith in humanity.