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Don't cry for the mice!
- Thread starter horned_frog_guy
- Start date
TandJ
Ole' Stoic Viper...
cbeavers, how old is your corn? There are ways you can attempt to entice the corn into eatting f/t.. After all, not all the rodents corns eat in the wild are found alive from what I understand.. There has been a lot posted about getting a corn intrested in a f/t'ed meal, do a search on the site about it, there might be a lot of useful information for you to use..
Regards
Regards
starsevol
Cohabbing is cruelty...
Yes youre right...I don't like that one bit.....
One of the smartest people I had ever met had a big collection of (legal) native species. He knew the scientific names, habits and ranges for EVERY reptile and amphibian in the state. He would go to schools and let the kids see what lived wild in their own backyards. ALL his wild-caught snakes were trained to eat f/t. He even had a black racer he had caught. It had only one eye and he called it "One eyed Jack". He tamed Jack by letting him bite til he got tired and in time Jack became dog-tame and had the run of the house (with supervision). By the time I met one-eyed Jack in person he had not bitten anyone in 4 years. I NEVER would have believed it if I hadnt seen it myself.
So if wild-caught snakes can be trained to eat f/t, no reason a captive bred corn can't.
One of the smartest people I had ever met had a big collection of (legal) native species. He knew the scientific names, habits and ranges for EVERY reptile and amphibian in the state. He would go to schools and let the kids see what lived wild in their own backyards. ALL his wild-caught snakes were trained to eat f/t. He even had a black racer he had caught. It had only one eye and he called it "One eyed Jack". He tamed Jack by letting him bite til he got tired and in time Jack became dog-tame and had the run of the house (with supervision). By the time I met one-eyed Jack in person he had not bitten anyone in 4 years. I NEVER would have believed it if I hadnt seen it myself.
So if wild-caught snakes can be trained to eat f/t, no reason a captive bred corn can't.
MegF.
That's for sale???
May I ask why Mike? For me it's so convenient to have the mice ready in the freezer. No parasites, no problem with a bad bite. I personally would hate to have to try to kill the small adult rats that my amel eats. I can see myself with the .22 and a blindfold for it<LOL>They all eat the f/t without a problem. I am fortunate in that my local pet store can supply me with f/t mice or rats whenever I need them, and I can order them in quantities of 12 at a time so I don't have to deal with getting rid of 50 or 100.
JenC
Missin her snakes
IDK But For a fact, I will NOT be willing to risk the lives of ANY of my snakes by feeding live. Sorry, but I just dont have the heart to have something go wrong. The snake can be the best killer in the world..and somethin WILL go wrong sooner or later... or as my dad says "Something always has to go horribly wrong"
Post from the BP Forum:
Post from the BP Forum:
ChrisVogel said:
Taceas
USW = UB313
I have no problem whatsoever with fresh-killed or incapaciated live food, I have problems with idiots with no regard for life, however small it may be. Like the people I see in videos of a snake chasing a live mouse around, hooting and hollering in the background like a chanting crowd at a gladiator's match, or to our young and naive friend here. I don't find it too surprising that he hasn't managed to post more than 3 words after opening up his can of worms.
But I agree Mike. I've tried f/t for a couple of years and the more snakes I got, the more of a hassle it was for me. I spent more time thawing and drying the mice off (most wouldn't eat a sopping wet mouse) than it takes me to thresh through a batch and offer them. Correct temp, all dry, smells good, and no refusals.
It just kept ending up with more refusals on a feeding night when I had more snakes that ultimately didn't like f/t, the younger ones' growth rates were flat pitiful on f/t, and I like the idea of raising my mice in accordance with knowing what goes into them and how they met their end. The snakes that I have fed f/k (fresh killed) from Day 1 have grown SO much better than those I had bought that were fed f/t for a good portion of their lives.
A 2002 Blizzard and a 2003 homegrown Amel Mot: Which one ate f/k?
The only live food my snakes get are pinks pretty much anymore. Its over just as fast to have the snake do it than me to flick it, plus generally less messy if I might have gotten a tad too enthusiastic. Fuzzies are thumped and crawlers to adults are thumped and cervically dislocated before ever meeting a snake.
I generally go through and count how many of what sizes I need, go and pick that "order" from the racks and cages in the garage, then do an assembly line of sorts of thumping to cervically dislocating, and then putting them in a tall papertowel lined bucket to let them kick and flop around while draining their urine. It takes me about 8-10 mins for all of that. And then another 10-20 mins feeding and putting back in their tubs.
I just like the factor of knowing what goes into my snakes. I like that control factor (control freak if ya couldn't tell) you can get with raising your own. BCRF has great quality stuff and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. With Rodent Pro, I ended up with quite a few mice that looked and smelled like they were found dead and buried in the tubs. I LIKE being able to know beforehand that my mice were alive and healthy, and not have to throw them out once they get here. Just like I don't like buying a family pack of boneless skinless chicken breasts and coming home to find nearly 1lb of fat lumps and rib bones "hidden" under the meat. For reasons like that I don't buy Tyson chicken anymore, nor Rodent Pro mice.
What works for one, may not work for all. I don't try to convert people to what I do, and I don't like being harped to for being 'cruel' about feeding live mice, when 90% of the time they're not alive when fed to a snake. =)
But I agree Mike. I've tried f/t for a couple of years and the more snakes I got, the more of a hassle it was for me. I spent more time thawing and drying the mice off (most wouldn't eat a sopping wet mouse) than it takes me to thresh through a batch and offer them. Correct temp, all dry, smells good, and no refusals.
It just kept ending up with more refusals on a feeding night when I had more snakes that ultimately didn't like f/t, the younger ones' growth rates were flat pitiful on f/t, and I like the idea of raising my mice in accordance with knowing what goes into them and how they met their end. The snakes that I have fed f/k (fresh killed) from Day 1 have grown SO much better than those I had bought that were fed f/t for a good portion of their lives.
A 2002 Blizzard and a 2003 homegrown Amel Mot: Which one ate f/k?
The only live food my snakes get are pinks pretty much anymore. Its over just as fast to have the snake do it than me to flick it, plus generally less messy if I might have gotten a tad too enthusiastic. Fuzzies are thumped and crawlers to adults are thumped and cervically dislocated before ever meeting a snake.
I generally go through and count how many of what sizes I need, go and pick that "order" from the racks and cages in the garage, then do an assembly line of sorts of thumping to cervically dislocating, and then putting them in a tall papertowel lined bucket to let them kick and flop around while draining their urine. It takes me about 8-10 mins for all of that. And then another 10-20 mins feeding and putting back in their tubs.
I just like the factor of knowing what goes into my snakes. I like that control factor (control freak if ya couldn't tell) you can get with raising your own. BCRF has great quality stuff and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. With Rodent Pro, I ended up with quite a few mice that looked and smelled like they were found dead and buried in the tubs. I LIKE being able to know beforehand that my mice were alive and healthy, and not have to throw them out once they get here. Just like I don't like buying a family pack of boneless skinless chicken breasts and coming home to find nearly 1lb of fat lumps and rib bones "hidden" under the meat. For reasons like that I don't buy Tyson chicken anymore, nor Rodent Pro mice.
What works for one, may not work for all. I don't try to convert people to what I do, and I don't like being harped to for being 'cruel' about feeding live mice, when 90% of the time they're not alive when fed to a snake. =)
MegF.
That's for sale???
Since you raise your own feeders, that's different. I wouldn't feed one of the mice that the local petstore keeps. There's usually about 60- 100 in a large tank, and they can't be clean. As far as growth. I have an amel who has fed exclusively on f/t and is nearly 4 ft. and 595 grams at 2 1/2 years old. All my yearlings are at just about 30", so I'm not sure growth is an accurate pointer. Snakes grow at different rates no matter what you feed. My female that's nearly the same age as the amel and has been fed the same is 37" and 328g. Is that due to genetics or the fact that she's been fed f/t? You can't say. Mine also all eat the f/t directly out of the water. I usually hold it in a piece of paper towel so that it doesn't drip on the floor, but other than that, I don't dry it. The corns and the Green Tree Pythons all eat them wet. Time wise, while you're thumping, I'm watching t.v. or playing with the snakes, while the mice thaw in hot water. Easy.
Serpwidgets
New member
Agreed. There's a world of difference between what everyone here is talking about, versus "who cares if it suffers, it's just a mouse?"
The original post in this thread sounded to me like it was posted by Percy from The Green Mile.
horned_frog_guy
New member
To Misty
Excuse me, but who exactly are you calling young and naive? I happend to be 24 yrs old, and I have a BBA in Information and Operations Management from the Mays Business School at Texas A&M University - one of the top rated business school in America.
Excuse me, but who exactly are you calling young and naive? I happend to be 24 yrs old, and I have a BBA in Information and Operations Management from the Mays Business School at Texas A&M University - one of the top rated business school in America.
horned_frog_guy
New member
Ps
By the way Misty, nice plug for your up and coming website. I didnt catch it until the second time I read your post, but now I see that all you were doing was advertising your stuff. Good luck with your venture - you'll really need it, especially by the looks of that amatuerish html your working on.
By the way Misty, nice plug for your up and coming website. I didnt catch it until the second time I read your post, but now I see that all you were doing was advertising your stuff. Good luck with your venture - you'll really need it, especially by the looks of that amatuerish html your working on.
ghosthousecorns
New member
That was uncalled for! You started a controversial subject and not everyone agrees with you. It has nothing to do with how educated you are, or whether she's trying to plug her website but as a contributing member she doesn't have to, she can just post under corn snakes for sale any time.
stormi
New member
now I'm all for feeding mice to our animals.. its the food chain...but i figure we might as well buy the mice that are already dead..and i know the mouse will probally die anyway but is not giving the mouse a fair chance...i not saying your all going to hell for doing it..cause for some snakes it has to be done..but i have a cousin who's friend feeds his (illegal)hawk snakes..i that that was wrong ..i would feel so bad if my snake got eaten or fed to....then i thought about how it would be if i took my time to love and care for mice.. and other people deliberately killed them...that its part of the food chain...
ultimuttone
Murphy is my Sancho :/
horned_frog_guy said:
Maybe I am just in a pissy mood today, but that really was not a mature, educated response.
To many of us 'old crones' here, 24 is still young and naive, just a fact.
And you certainly are not the only person on this site with a college degree. Unless they have recently added a Masters of Cornsnake Husbandry degree it really doesn't add up to a hill of beans anyway.
As was stated, you opened up a controversial subject with a rather callous remark. If you didn't want to hear what others had to say, you should have kept it to yourself.
When I got my first snake I made a lot of mistakes for lack of good information. I had to rely on the few other snake people I knew. I am thrilled that this time around I have so many people's experience and opinions to help me. We don't all have to agree, but exchange of ideas and opinions is how we learn. Sometimes we even realize we made a bad decision.
It has nothing to do with age or intelligence, but everything to do with being open enough to learn.
End of pissy rant. Have a nice day.
Taceas
USW = UB313
Good grief, the idiots are coming out of the woodwork this month! You say one thing, and people get their panties in a bunch and just whirlwind it into a whole "attack fest". Oh well..
Nameless person...
I would have been referring to you, of course.
I could care less if you have a PhD in Astrophysics from MIT. College degrees don't mean jack to me in the grand scheme of things in the world of cornsnake keeping or animal ethics. Experience, maturity, and personality go a lot farther in that respect. If it makes you feel higher and mightier than thou for having something most people don't have (or don't brag about having), keep on braggin'. If it makes you feel speshul, go right on ahead telling us all about how smart you are. I think most of us now know that's not entirely accurate.
You're not the only one who went to college, just the only one who thinks it matters...a professor of mine once said "College degrees don't mean much to the average person, it just shows you know how to pass a test with a hangover".
Oh, and btw, I don't have a BS in Telepathy or Mind-Reading. Your writing style and general message conveyed to me was someone vastly younger than myself.
I was plugging? Where??! I mean, last time I checked it wasn't against the rules to put up our webpage address in our signature. Look around, lots of other people have their own webpages in their signature. But thanks for trying to pick on me anyway.
At least I put my money where my mouth is and have the availability of advertising my animals for sale on here. Which is what I've done the past two years. I just thought it would be nice to have my own page to show off my animals, more than sell them. But keep up that assuming game, it sure is fun.
And since we're in the habit of assuming, what part of "under construction" don't you understand, Mr. Schmartypants? I did that in a quick 20 mins just to get something up. The fact remains that I'm having it built by someone else who's a lot more talented and qualified than I am about webpage building. I never touted myself as an expert html-er, I'd be the first one to say so. But I'm so glad you're the Master of All, cause it sure sounds stuffy in that room of yours.
You opened your can of worms and welcomed people's irate responses, so deal with that fact, you got what you wanted. If calling you young and naive was the only thing you have taken offense to in the course of everyone's responses...I must say that's pretty darn petty. Nevermind freezing adult mice which could get you a hefty fine for animal cruelty. Maybe that's why you haven't said your name thus far.
Looks like you still have quite a little growing up to do, at least from my perspective. :cheers:
Nameless person...
I would have been referring to you, of course.
I could care less if you have a PhD in Astrophysics from MIT. College degrees don't mean jack to me in the grand scheme of things in the world of cornsnake keeping or animal ethics. Experience, maturity, and personality go a lot farther in that respect. If it makes you feel higher and mightier than thou for having something most people don't have (or don't brag about having), keep on braggin'. If it makes you feel speshul, go right on ahead telling us all about how smart you are. I think most of us now know that's not entirely accurate.
You're not the only one who went to college, just the only one who thinks it matters...a professor of mine once said "College degrees don't mean much to the average person, it just shows you know how to pass a test with a hangover".
Oh, and btw, I don't have a BS in Telepathy or Mind-Reading. Your writing style and general message conveyed to me was someone vastly younger than myself.
I was plugging? Where??! I mean, last time I checked it wasn't against the rules to put up our webpage address in our signature. Look around, lots of other people have their own webpages in their signature. But thanks for trying to pick on me anyway.
At least I put my money where my mouth is and have the availability of advertising my animals for sale on here. Which is what I've done the past two years. I just thought it would be nice to have my own page to show off my animals, more than sell them. But keep up that assuming game, it sure is fun.
And since we're in the habit of assuming, what part of "under construction" don't you understand, Mr. Schmartypants? I did that in a quick 20 mins just to get something up. The fact remains that I'm having it built by someone else who's a lot more talented and qualified than I am about webpage building. I never touted myself as an expert html-er, I'd be the first one to say so. But I'm so glad you're the Master of All, cause it sure sounds stuffy in that room of yours.
You opened your can of worms and welcomed people's irate responses, so deal with that fact, you got what you wanted. If calling you young and naive was the only thing you have taken offense to in the course of everyone's responses...I must say that's pretty darn petty. Nevermind freezing adult mice which could get you a hefty fine for animal cruelty. Maybe that's why you haven't said your name thus far.
Looks like you still have quite a little growing up to do, at least from my perspective. :cheers:
horned_frog_guy
New member
Again to misti
Not bragging, just defending myself. Oh, and thanks for proving my point...which was that I think its amusing when "idiots", such as yourself, get so worked up about the plight of a mouse, that they resort to personal attacks and name calling.
Not bragging, just defending myself. Oh, and thanks for proving my point...which was that I think its amusing when "idiots", such as yourself, get so worked up about the plight of a mouse, that they resort to personal attacks and name calling.
horned_frog_guy
New member
shed'n my skin said:
I really dont think it was. Your right...I started a controversial topic, but I never called anyone "naive", or an "idiot". I have the right to my opinion and so do you, but attacking me and assuming that I am an uneducated person is rather "uncalled for". I fully expected some people to disagree with me and state their own opinion; I just didnt know some people on this forum are rude enough to start name calling. If you ask me, that is what was immature.
ultimuttone
Murphy is my Sancho :/
HFG-You might want to take a refresher course in manners and respect. You had no reason to 'defend yourself', you could have just continued in a civil discussion. Instead you chose to make this something personal. Your personal attacks and name calling will not get you very far here, or anywhere else for that matter. One of the things that makes this such a good forum is the respect we have for others in the community. You are entitled to your opinion, but remember to have some tact.