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"Epilogue"

Because it's microscopic, it is in the form of a very fine powder. You can really do with it what you want. Like Janine said, you can dust the inside of their viv with it to prevent mites, dust the food with it, tube feed it, etc.
With chickens, what many do is mix it with water and then paint it on the inside of the chicken coops and roosts for mites, and then mix it in their food and sprinkle it on the ground where they peck. (it doesn't dissolve obviously but it acts like silt so you can mix it up really well and use it before it settles again)

I've heard and read from numerous people that it reduces cholesterol extremely well. It's very interesting to me that it is not well known. The results are staggering and unanimous if you talk to people who have actually used it themselves. But this is not something that I've personally tried.

I'm currently trying to contact some of the distributors and researchers to find out more on any known influence with reptiles, good or bad.
 
From what it looks like via reading, so far, online is that there's a concern that it might dry out reptiles due to the scales and breathing it in. While this may be true to a small degree, I don't think it'd be enough to be concerned about, especially if you've got crypto in your stock anyway. I've never heard of DE damaging lungs of any creature in the natural (food grade) form and maybe Janine can provide feedback on if any drying has been noticed (it doesn't sound like it) since she's been using it for years. I think that the concern is just coming from a lack of knowledge and hearing that DE can harm the lungs in the crystalline form.

All-in-all though, the concern seems external only and IMO Janine has proved this to be false.
 
Yes, I use the food grade DE mixed in with some bedding too. We get the crappy gnats in the south, and DE works great. I use it in reptile cages, turtle pens, and bird cages. My family has also used DE to de-worm animals.

For the bedding, I mix a few tablespoons per bag, or a small pinch directly in the enclosure and stir it about really well. So far, none of the animals have shown any ill effects. I know boas can be more sensitive to certain things, but I have a boa living and doing well on DE dusted bedding. Just don't over do the mix. A little of this stuff goes a long way.

The big, big, big, thing is to get the FOOD GRADE DE. There are several online suppliers, I prefer PureEarthD.
 
The dosage for ingestion, I feel, should be carefully measured... we're talking about a powder that can end up getting stuck in digestive system tracts...
 
Kokopelli said:
The dosage for ingestion, I feel, should be carefully measured... we're talking about a powder that can end up getting stuck in digestive system tracts...
Click to expand...

That's very true. I would start with a very very small amount. Maybe a dose the size of this smilie ---> :eek: mixed with water. Then go up from there if it's tolerated well.
 
Kokopelli said:
The dosage for ingestion, I feel, should be carefully measured... we're talking about a powder that can end up getting stuck in digestive system tracts...
Click to expand...

Very true. If it were me, I'd pick one animal out of the group and adjust measurements. Personally, I'd mix it with Reptaid and Repta-boost and inject it into a F/T rat or mouse and implement it that way to start.

If you've got the time and money too, something to think about would be getting a good microscope and watching the results yourself.
 
I was going to just add a little pinch to my Calcium D3 powder, say once a month, maybe twice a month? I already mix Nutri-bac in with the CaD3 powder every feeding. Just a little pinch of Nutribac. I think adding this will be fantastic!
 
Tara80 said:
Very true. If it were me, I'd pick one animal out of the group and adjust measurements. Personally, I'd mix it with Reptaid and Repta-boost and inject it into a F/T rat or mouse and implement it that way to start.

If you've got the time and money too, something to think about would be getting a good microscope and watching the results yourself.
Click to expand...

Repta-Boost and Rept-aid actually accomplish the same goals... and since the animals are in top condition(feeding, pooping, very active and lively) I am not overly concerned will that side of the treatment.

I spoke with Pat(he's quick!) and he believes that Rept-aid will do little other than keep the immune system in good condition(which is actually not bad) and the DE to do nothing... admittedly, he hasn't tried either.

Since DE is being used to fight Cryptosporidium Parvum, I think it has a better shot at it than Pat believes... but there's no way to know without trying.

As for the Microscope... very unrealistic... the class of the Microscope needed costs several thousands of dollars... you need specific tech in order to check fast acid tests.

I do have the option to send more fecal tests for reasonable so I will continue testing the two I held back.
 
Honestly, I think the DE will be very helpful. If it works like it's supposed to (much like a scrub brush), it will push that crap out of their system and you just have to prevent re-infection. I'll have to chat with Pat this weekend......
 
I don't know what his knowledge base is, but understanding the properties of DE, I don't think one would say negative to it so quickly.

The value lies in the negative ionic charge it has. I *KNOW* this to be true based on the way we use it here in the Navy. Unfortunately, I obviously cannot provide too much specific information and feedback on that. I know it never sounds good when someone says "just trust me", as it sounds like a snake oil salesman but we rely on it here, because of it's ionic properties and it does work, 100% or we wouldn't use it for the applications we use it for.

The difference with repta-boost and reptaid is that repta-boost is more of an electrolyte/hydration support when Reptaid is for auto-immune/health boost. But if your animals are doing good then you're probably right about it not being so necessary.
 
Pat's a Vet Tech at a Zoo I believe. I've done a lot of business with Pat, and he's really a smart guy. I think he just doesn't know how the DE works. Tara, could you sorta explain how this stuff works or suggest a good article to show to Pat tomorrow at the show?
 
Kokopelli said:
Since DE is being used to fight Cryptosporidium Parvum, I think it has a better shot at it than Pat believes... but there's no way to know without trying.
Click to expand...

I agree.

It seems to treat a wide variety of parasite in animals. Like I said, we use it as a de-wormer in our pets.

Who knows what it might be able to do?

Oren, you unfortunately have the best potential for testing, with your remaining infected animals. I'm really sorry that you are going through this.
 
Here's a write up on it (charges called CEC or cation [cat-ion] exchange capacity).
I think, on the third page, it even breaks down charge properties between DE, zeolite, etc.

http://www.jbhs.ccs.k12.nc.us/Facul...l Notes For APES/cation exchange capacity.pdf

although, this applies to plants you can get an idea of how it works as far as the charges. basically, it attracts almost anything that has the opposite charge and is small enough to 'become sucked in' and trapped in the circular, porous structures and then eliminated from the system. This includes protozoa and bacteria, which are known to have the opposite charge.

(for example: bacteria) DE is often used to filter honey as it
functions to reduce non-honey
particulate matter. Most pollen, wax and
some bacteria can be removed through
the use of DE. This helps remove the
presence of any particulate and
produces a very clear end-product.

Another good article from a chemistry professor:
http://naturalsolutionsradio.com/bl...-diatomaceous-earth-84-silicon-dioxide-silica
 
Last edited:
BloodyBaroness said:
I agree.

It seems to treat a wide variety of parasite in animals. Like I said, we use it as a de-wormer in our pets.

Who knows what it might be able to do?

Oren, you unfortunately have the best potential for testing, with your remaining infected animals. I'm really sorry that you are going through this.
Click to expand...

Do not be sorry. It is alright, honestly.. it is...
It brought about quite a few good changes... along with the bad. It's quite alright, and I still have my few Crytpo free snakes to enjoy...

And it seems like I'm in a good position to give it a shot, yup.
 
I bought a giant bag of food grade DE several years ago from the local feed store that I bought my mouse food from. It was a huge bag for very little money (can't remember just how much), and I still have some left. I have used it to sprinkle around the herp and rodent rooms to control roaches and other bugs. I also used it in the rodent bedding when I had some sort of mites in the rodents. It didn't control the mites as well as I had hoped, but at least didn't hurt anything. I believe I used it in the bedding of corns many years ago when I had some mites, but it is difficult to remember whether I used both Sevin dust and DE, or just one or the other.

I have read about using it internally, but never tried it on any animals. I even wondered about it as an anti parasitic and general anti microbe agent for "failure to thrive" animals, but never actually tried it. If I have any adult corns this year that go downhill after egg laying and I can't bring them back with the usual nursing care, I may try some DE just to see if it "does no harm", anyway. I will be very interested in hearing any results from anyone who decides to use it internally on herps for any reason.
 
David, I have most of that information in post #34 above.

But if you still want further information I suggest searching and reading about what cryptosporidium is (protozoa) and how it works and then looking up and reading on cation charged DE and how it works. I can totally understand how someone has started using and researching DE for cryposporidium parvum because, in all reality, it should work. I think though, to actually make it work 100% you'd have to clean the bedding out daily to get rid of any spores as well (and flush the snake out daily, almost filter like). It'll flush the actual protozoa FROM the snakes system but if you don't keep the snake itself pristine, it will have a chance to re-infect itself. But if you feed DE to the snake on a daily basis for a length of time, it should totally eradicate the protozoa.
I have heard that it also kills fungal spore but I do not know how it would work on or relate to crypto spores.
 
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