Female snakes

[smale492]

Ok so I am getting a snake soon and I keep having worrying thoughts. I keep hearing all this talk about egg bound snakes and how they can cause the snake to die or become majorly ill. This has almost caused me to be 100% against getting a female snake. The problem is I dont know if the breeders I am talking to offer me to be picky on what gender I want. (I am emailing them today to ask). I was just wondering if anyone had any words to settle nerves or am I right to worry about this.

 

[Shiari]

Pretty much every breeder will give you a choice of male or female if they have both in the morph you want.

 

[smale492]

Pretty much every breeder will give you a choice of male or female if they have both in the morph you want.

That's what I am assuming but we shall see

 

[Tavia]

Sorry, this may or may not be reassuring. Like Shiari said, most breeders would give you a choice but even very experienced breeders can make mistakes when sexing a snake. On the other hand, it is a lot more rare to mistake a female snake as a male, it's usually the other way around, but it has happened a few times. The other good news, the chances of a non breeding female becoming eggbound is very small, the chance exists but it's a very small worry and keeping a humid hide in with the snake at all times would further reduce the chances of it happening. Not having a good place to lay can cause a female to hold onto them long enough to become eggbound, so that's the purpose to providing a humid hide/lay box, even with non breeding snakes.

 

[smale492]

Sorry, this may or may not be reassuring. Like Shiari said, most breeders would give you a choice but even very experienced breeders can make mistakes when sexing a snake. On the other hand, it is a lot more rare to mistake a female snake as a male, it's usually the other way around, but it has happened a few times. The other good news, the chances of a non breeding female becoming eggbound is very small, the chance exists but it's a very small worry and keeping a humid hide in with the snake at all times would further reduce the chances of it happening. Not having a good place to lay can cause a female to hold onto them long enough to become eggbound, so that's the purpose to providing a humid hide/lay box, even with non breeding snakes.

Very interesting thanks for letting me know this.

 

[axis1]

Ok so I am getting a snake soon and I keep having worrying thoughts. I keep hearing all this talk about egg bound snakes and how they can cause the snake to die or become majorly ill. This has almost caused me to be 100% against getting a female snake. The problem is I dont know if the breeders I am talking to offer me to be picky on what gender I want. (I am emailing them today to ask). I was just wondering if anyone had any words to settle nerves or am I right to worry about this.

Hi smale492!

I'm not a professional breeder, just someone who loves cornsnakes! I happen to have a female (Lilly) and two males (Bozo & Chili-Pepper) who were all cohabitated for most of their 8 years. I separated all of them this past April after a short dialogue and interchange between some well-informed members who didn't call me all types of corn-killers and whose sensitivity caused me to research the issue and resulted in me doing the right thing. If you have the time and are interested in that issue, the link is:

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143267

I was informed by the person who sold me my snakes what their sexes were (he was correct) and was also told that cohabitation of cornsnakes was OK "because they are community snakes" (he was incorrect). So when Lilly began to lay eggs a few years ago, I wasn't totally surprised. But after I actually caught her & one of the males locked up together while mating, I decided to research how to breed my snakes as part of their general care.

I registered on this site and also read the horror stories of egg-bound females. Lilly happened to fit the minimum criteria for an egg-laying female (the three 3's rule-of-thumb) in that she was over 3 years-old, over 300 grams, and just over 3 feet long. While I prepared a laybox for her, I also had a back-up plan should something go wrong (I have a vet who is GREAT with snakes who happens to be the same vet I take my cats to!). I doubt I would have proceeded without this vital back-up!

Last year, she laid 12 eggs, 3 of which hatched and only 1 of which survived past 3 months (an 11 month-old named Ozzy who's got a GREAT temperament and eats mice so fast he doesn't even taste them!).

This year, I was more prepared since I got actively involved with this forum and Lilly has double-clutched since May 21st (out of 19 eggs, 16 look good, 1 is "iffy", and 2 were slugs and her 2nd clutch laid this past Saturday - 7/2 - has 9 bigger, healthier looking eggs). None have hatched yet, but Lilly is fine! Matter-of-fact, Lilly has been a champ in that she wasn't brumated during winter and was living with the 2 males who mated regularly with her this past spring. She bounced back after every incident of being gravid without becoming egg-bound, thankfully.

While worst-case scenarios should always be taken into consideration, only those who can't or are unwilling to facilitate a thorough and caring back-up plan should abandon any hopes of breeding their snakes, in my opinion. I guess that means that only people who REALLY care about their snakes AND can & will do something about it should something negative occur should own corns or ANY snakes at all, for that matter!

If you worry too much about the potentially negative outcomes, then you will never even attempt something which might be fulfilling. Consider this also: hatchlings that don't eat are a real and constant threat amongst ALL clutches and it takes a lot of hard work, often with heartbreaking results, to care for a clutch of newly hatched corns.

Bottom line: if I'm not willing to take my egg-bound snake to the vet and nurse her back to health, go the extra mile for a stubborn hatchling who refuses to eat, including cutting up pinkies, washing them with Dawn, doing a slew of other things to get them to eat, and eventually even assist- & force-feed them, up until the day they die and/or even have to euthanize them if necessary, then I'm not ready to breed my snakes and may never be. My opinion only, of course.

Just sayin'. :spinner:

 

[smale492]

Hi smale492!

I'm not a professional breeder, just someone who loves cornsnakes! I happen to have a female (Lilly) and two males (Bozo & Chili-Pepper) who were all cohabitated for most of their 8 years. I separated all of them this past April after a short dialogue and interchange between some well-informed members who didn't call me all types of corn-killers and whose sensitivity caused me to research the issue and resulted in me doing the right thing. If you have the time and are interested in that issue, the link is:

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143267

I was informed by the person who sold me my snakes what their sexes were (he was correct) and was also told that cohabitation of cornsnakes was OK "because they are community snakes" (he was incorrect). So when Lilly began to lay eggs a few years ago, I wasn't totally surprised. But after I actually caught her & one of the males locked up together while mating, I decided to research how to breed my snakes as part of their general care.

I registered on this site and also read the horror stories of egg-bound females. Lilly happened to fit the minimum criteria for an egg-laying female (the three 3's rule-of-thumb) in that she was over 3 years-old, over 300 grams, and just over 3 feet long. While I prepared a laybox for her, I also had a back-up plan should something go wrong (I have a vet who is GREAT with snakes who happens to be the same vet I take my cats to!). I doubt I would have proceeded without this vital back-up!

Last year, she laid 12 eggs, 3 of which hatched and only 1 of which survived past 3 months (an 11 month-old named Ozzy who's got a GREAT temperament and eats mice so fast he doesn't even taste them!).

This year, I was more prepared since I got actively involved with this forum and Lilly has double-clutched since May 21st (out of 19 eggs, 16 look good, 1 is "iffy", and 2 were slugs and her 2nd clutch laid this past Saturday - 7/2 - has 9 bigger, healthier looking eggs). None have hatched yet, but Lilly is fine! Matter-of-fact, Lilly has been a champ in that she wasn't brumated during winter and was living with the 2 males who mated regularly with her this past spring. She bounced back after every incident of being gravid without becoming egg-bound, thankfully.

While worst-case scenarios should always be taken into consideration, only those who can't or are unwilling to facilitate a thorough and caring back-up plan should abandon any hopes of breeding their snakes, in my opinion. I guess that means that only people who REALLY care about their snakes AND can & will do something about it should something negative occur should own corns or ANY snakes at all, for that matter!

If you worry too much about the potentially negative outcomes, then you will never even attempt something which might be fulfilling. Consider this also: hatchlings that don't eat are a real and constant threat amongst ALL clutches and it takes a lot of hard work, often with heartbreaking results, to care for a clutch of newly hatched corns.

Bottom line: if I'm not willing to take my egg-bound snake to the vet and nurse her back to health, go the extra mile for a stubborn hatchling who refuses to eat, including cutting up pinkies, washing them with Dawn, doing a slew of other things to get them to eat, and eventually even assist- & force-feed them, up until the day they die and/or even have to euthanize them if necessary, then I'm not ready to breed my snakes and may never be. My opinion only, of course.

Just sayin'. :spinner:

Thanks for your advice I am very excited with the possible upcoming addition into my life. I dont know when babies start hatching around this time so everyday has me on edge because I am on waiting lists waiting to hear good news.

 

[Karl_Mcknight]

To be perfectly honest, I never even heard of "Egg Bound" snakes before joining this forum. I've had female snakes before and never had any issues. I've known other people with female snakes and again no issues.

A lot of the people that post on this forum are breeders. Many of them have dozens if not hundreds of snakes. If you have that many, you're probably going to have issues from time to time.

But for the average person who wants a Pet Snake, I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

[smale492]

To be perfectly honest, I never even heard of "Egg Bound" snakes before joining this forum. I've had female snakes before and never had any issues. I've known other people with female snakes and again no issues.

A lot of the people that post on this forum are breeders. Many of them have dozens if not hundreds of snakes. If you have that many, you're probably going to have issues from time to time.

But for the average person who wants a Pet Snake, I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Im sure I am its just something spinning around in my head

 

[Shiari]

To be perfectly honest, I never even heard of "Egg Bound" snakes before joining this forum. I've had female snakes before and never had any issues. I've known other people with female snakes and again no issues.

A lot of the people that post on this forum are breeders. Many of them have dozens if not hundreds of snakes. If you have that many, you're probably going to have issues from time to time.

But for the average person who wants a Pet Snake, I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Your average joe also doesn't know that unmated female birds can lay infertile eggs, and become eggbound. Instead, their bird 'dies for unknown reasons'. Probably the same can be said for snakes.

While uncommon, it does happen. I've had two females become eggbound. One required surgery for an egg stuck at the vent. The other had them bound up so high that I wasn't able to palpate them until she refused to eat for a month and then up and died. Then I was able to palpate that she had three eggs stuck right at the top.


I say it's *always* better to be paranoid and have nothing happen, then to be unaware and have something go wrong. So while it's unlikely that a female pet snake is going to become eggbound, it CAN happen and so being prepared for that possibility will provide the best potential outcome and a hopefully alive snake at the end.

 

[hypnoctopus]

One thing to consider about getting a male is that they often stop eating during the spring (once they're an adult). That was actually the reason I chose a female as my first snake. It's more common for a male corn to go on a hunger strike than it is for an unbred female to get eggbound, but hunger strikes are merely annoying whereas eggbinding can be more serious.

Just some food for thought!

 

[Dragonling]

Your average joe also doesn't know that unmated female birds can lay infertile eggs, and become eggbound. Instead, their bird 'dies for unknown reasons'. Probably the same can be said for snakes.

While uncommon, it does happen. I've had two females become eggbound. One required surgery for an egg stuck at the vent. The other had them bound up so high that I wasn't able to palpate them until she refused to eat for a month and then up and died. Then I was able to palpate that she had three eggs stuck right at the top.


I say it's *always* better to be paranoid and have nothing happen, then to be unaware and have something go wrong. So while it's unlikely that a female pet snake is going to become eggbound, it CAN happen and so being prepared for that possibility will provide the best potential outcome and a hopefully alive snake at the end.

In my first year of owning corns I've already had an unbred female nearly become eggbound. I'm lucky she passed it on her own, considering how weak she was at that point, having refused food for a month and a half while struggling with a respiratory infection. It's the biggest reason I started out with a male corn snake. I'd rather deal with a fussy eater for a couple of months than surprise vet bills.

There are also usually a surplus of males available as pets, since many breeders will keep breeding groups with a single male and two or more females. My aim is to have a 1:2 male to female ratio soon, higher once I have more snakes, and I imagine I will tend to hold back more females than males as keepers.

 

[smale492]

One thing to consider about getting a male is that they often stop eating during the spring (once they're an adult). That was actually the reason I chose a female as my first snake. It's more common for a male corn to go on a hunger strike than it is for an unbred female to get eggbound, but hunger strikes are merely annoying whereas eggbinding can be more serious.

Just some food for thought!

How long do they usually go off feeding for? And at what age does this normally happen? Just curious

 

[Dragonling]

How long do they usually go off feeding for? And at what age does this normally happen? Just curious

Sometimes as early as 10 months to a year, but more commonly at 2+ years old. It's worth noting that many males don't go off of feed. My yearling male is still not interested in breeding so he has continued to eat, and my 6 year old continues to be a garbage disposal while still hunting for the ladies.

 

[Tavia]

Females can go off feed for breeding reasons too, though that's a bit rarer. My one and only female that had laid eggs while not being bred, would go off food for three months every spring once she got up to 3 years old, though she was 5 the year she laid eggs, I think. I'd gotten her as unsexed and had actually been assuming she was a male because of the clock work spring fasts, guess she got tired of being called the wrong pronoun!

 

[Dragonling]

Females can go off feed for breeding reasons too, though that's a bit rarer. My one and only female that had laid eggs while not being bred, would go off food for three months every spring once she got up to 3 years old, though she was 5 the year she laid eggs, I think. I'd gotten her as unsexed and had actually been assuming she was a male because of the clock work spring fasts, guess she got tired of being called the wrong pronoun!

Yep! Silly Sierra refused food while being already underweight for breeding, and that could definitely have contributed to her becoming temporarily eggbound. So now I will have to anticipate her possibly doing this next year too. Hopefully I can get a lot more muscle on her before then!

 

[axis1]

Females can go off feed for breeding reasons too, though that's a bit rarer. My one and only female that had laid eggs while not being bred, would go off food for three months every spring once she got up to 3 years old, though she was 5 the year she laid eggs, I think. I'd gotten her as unsexed and had actually been assuming she was a male because of the clock work spring fasts, guess she got tired of being called the wrong pronoun!

I guess when you really think about it, there will ALWAYS be exceptions to the rule, no? All of my adult corns were vociferous eaters for the first seven years, whether in shed or not, except for Lilly when she was gravid but only for the last two or three weeks prior to laying eggs. She would probably have eaten a small rat as soon as she laid eggs, though I would never try that. It was THIS YEAR, for some reason, when they all turned EIGHT, that my three adult snakes ALL went off food at the end of March!! Bozo & Chili-Pepper refused food every other week until the end of June!!! There hormones were so turbulent that my male snakes attempted to mate with each other!!

I guess there is no definite formula with corns and only a reasonable facsimile thereof. It's best to have a few more rodents than you need in the freezer, just in-case!!!