how do you put your snakes down?

[Animal_gal]

a followup to my most recent question (how do you dispose of your deceased snakes?).

seeing some of the discussions were really interesting for me, and i think beneficial for some of us that are new enough to not have dealt with dead snakes yet. it helps us figure out how we're going to handle it when the time comes, which helps put our minds at rest and i'm sure would make the mourning process easier.

so at what point do you decide it's time to put your snake down? obviously if the snake is in poor health and won't be able to make it you'll want to put it out of it's misery, but do you do this immediately or do you spend a lot of time and money on saving the poor guy?

a lot of people freeze their snakes when the time comes to put them down. (i'm not sure if there's a name for this?) but how do you go about the process of freezing your snake?

im sure other people might take their snakes to a vet for a shot or something, like you would a dog.

and then obviously if anyone hasn't answered this question yet, what do you do with the body?

 

[Tula_Montage]

I had to euthanise a snake 2 days ago

She wen't in the fridge for an hour or so then the freezer. Being so small (8 grams) it didn't take long for her to go.

 

[Animal_gal]

I know; I saw your thread.
I think her name was Dahlia, right?
I've been meaning to post this for awhile. My snake was born the runt and isn't exactly always the healthiest. Eventually he will have to die and it will more than likely be by my own hand. I've always known this but seeing the picture of your snake for some reason made it seem that much more real.

I actually cried, both for you and for myself. I know that sounds really stupid but I've become very attached to my snake, as a pet and a friend. He has been through so much with me, I've had a lot of hard emotional times and breakups and things like that, and it felt like he was the only one that didn't care or judge me, though he probably wouldnt care if I died tomorrow.

A lot of breeders see snakes come and go and I definitely understand how that is. I've always kinda been a little coldhearted in that way, but somehow I managed to bond with Smeagol.
I'm getting distracted. :shrugs:

She was gorgeous and I'm so sorry for your loss. You are very kind to have put so much effort into saving her. I'm sure the entire thing was a hard experience for you.

 

[Duff]

Fridge/freezer is not an acceptably humane method by vets or scientists. If you haven't already read this thread, there's more info on the subject:

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44198

 

[Cflaguy]

I didn't follow Duff's link...

but freezing an animal is not as humane as one may think.
The cells expand and eventually rupture.
Cut off the head was the old school method. But if you're like me and can't do that, put them in a snake bag full of mothballs.

 

[Roy Munson]

But if you're like me and can't do that, put them in a snake bag full of mothballs.

I've never heard of this. Is it humane? I can't do the decapitation or head-crush methods either. I'd like more info on the mothball method.

 

[tyflier]

but freezing an animal is not as humane as one may think.
The cells expand and eventually rupture.
Cut off the head was the old school method. But if you're like me and can't do that, put them in a snake bag full of mothballs.

I don't want to get into a debate about it, but I really don't understand how suffocation (via carbon dioxide saturation or other method) or acute poisoning(via mothballs or other toxic chemical) is more humane than freezing... :shrugs:

I understand the arguments about ruptured cells and "feeling itself freeze", but...Snakes brumate through the winter. In some places, the temperatures that these snakes withstand are well below freezing...even underground. Some of them never wake up. It is part of nature. This is what happens when you freeze one. I'm not saying there isn't any pain involved, because I simply don't know if there is or not.

What I am saying is...it is generally accepted that for humans, acute poisoning and suffocation are extremely painful and drawn out deaths, wherein the "victim" is typically conscious through the majority of the death, and aware of the pain. Assuming this is true for snakes(like we do with the relationship between mammals and freezing to death), what makes it more "humane" than freezing? :shrugs:

I don't have the answers, I'm only asking questions...

Anyhow...back to the original question...I try to judge a snakes chances based on it's current state, and decide if the chances are high enough to justify the pain or anguish the snake may experience during recovery.

If an eggbound female appears to have a 25% chance of recovery after long, intense care(coddling, environmental adjustments, assisted feedings, surgical egg removal, etc.), I will probably put it down and save the snake any further suffering. If the chances are 50/50...I'll definitely give it a go, but I am not a fan of forcefeeding to keep a snake alive. Some snakes are simply not meant to survive, and forcing them to live is not something I am willing to do.

When I DO make the decision to put one down, I use the same method as described by Tula_Montage, in that I cool the snake to a state of brumation, and than move it to the freezer where it remains for a week or so. Once the snake has been frozen for a week, it is either buried, or left as "food" for coyotes and king snakes in the desert.

Honestly...I don't want to debate about my choices regarding euthanasia of snakes and body disposal. I am comfortable with the choices I make, and the manner in which I perform these necessary activities. I won't change my ways until something more definitive than the studies we have comes along and proves, bar none and irrefutably, that there are better ways. I only asked the questions above because I truly do not understand how the "accepted" methods that the AVMA advocate are considred "humane" and others are not. I don't understand the lines that are being drawn in this particular sandbox.

 

[Cflaguy]

We would put them in a bag....

then in a closet over night. They just go to sleep and never wake up.

 

[Hawkin']

Old school, :smash: Then it goes in a bag and in the garbage.Just my opinion,no offense to anyone,But I think it's weird how attached some people get to snakes.If one dies,I'm a little upset,but Oh well I'll get another one.Not that I don't respect them,I keep them in the best cages I can afford,clean and well fed.No animal ever asked me to keep it in captivity,so I treat them all the best I can.No matter what some of you think snakes don't bond with you! If you smelled like a mouse and it could hold you down it would try to eat you!I love when people say" My snake really likes me because he's calm when I hold him and real jumpy with other people"No,your snake is used to your routine and the way YOU handle him.Was he calm from day one?And before anyone says I'm mean,I cry like a baby when one of my dogs die.But that's because they're my buddies.They choose to be around me and protect me.Even if it's just pack instinct,it's still a bond.I'll be a wreck when my little Staffy bull dies.I like that dog more than most people I meet!He sits in the chair with me when I watch tv,sleeps on the end of my bed,goes everywhere with me and is under my computer desk right now!

 

[Thoth]

I've never had to deal with euthanizing a snake, and I hope, kennehorrah, I won't have to do it any time soon. But I'd like to think I'd be brave and iron-stomached enough to do what I'm sure would mean the least suffering: hammer to the head. I suppose I'd put the snake in a double-ziploc to make sure that, post-impact, everything stays in the bag. Of course, I'm going to need enough gin to give me courage, but not so much that the hammer misses...

Then again I'm just a big ol' drama queen.

 

[jaxom1957]

so at what point do you decide it's time to put your snake down?

a lot of people freeze their snakes when the time comes to put them down. (i'm not sure if there's a name for this?) but how do you go about the process of freezing your snake?

I had to euthanize two badly kinked hatchlings yesterday. I did so after concluding that their physical deformities were too great to afford them a life I felt offered sufficient promise to outweigh the pain and hardship the deformities would bring. They went into the fridge, into the freezer. I cannot, with any certainty, say that this is a painless process for the snakes. I can say that it is the most humane and painless method currently available to me that doesn't require an act of violence on my part. I recognize the inherent hypocrisy of being able to break the neck of a mouse before feeding it to a snake and not being able to execute a snake in the same manner, but, to be honest, I DON'T CARE. So long as there is a method available to me that allows me to avoid that harsh interaction with an animal I love, to not make that violence my last memory of that pet, I will choose it. After the snakes are gone, their carcasses will be fed to my recently purchased king snakes.

The kings were obtained specifically for that purpose. I take in non-feeding or poor-feeding hatchlings and try to convert them to eating on their own. Not all will survive. Some will fail to thrive, others will develop other health issues that preclude their becoming future pets. Rather then killing them and tossing them into the trash, I choose to feed their carcasses, as well as my slug snake eggs and unwanted cockatiel eggs, to another animal as food, returning the elements from which they are made to the cycle.

I'm a bleeding heart liberal and an aging hippie. Those are my values.

 

[Shade]

I had to euthanize a baby salvator water monitor today. I can smash a bunny in the back of the head no problem, but I choke up when I have to put a lizard down. Pathetic, I know.

I used the frige/freezer method others have used, because it was my only available method and the only one with a 100% chance of working right the first time.

 

[Animal_gal]

The kings were obtained specifically for that purpose. QUOTE]

That's intriguing.
Have you ever tried to feed a live snake to one of your kingsnakes?

Dunno what made me think of that. Probably a bad idea but then you wouldn't have to worry about wether you should smash or freeze the corn. Just leave it to the king.

 

[Cam5]

I have read the previous thread on this topic and the current. Everyone has made valid points and spurred on painful but important dialogue.

As a human mammal myself when I was having surgery on 2 separate occasions I was able to feel everything and hear what was being said during the surgery (much to the horror of the physician afterward)...but was not able to open my eyes, move or say anything in my defense.
So unfortunately as a bleeding heart liberal I of course project my experience onto what the reptile may experience...then become ill at the idea of having to carry out any of this and know that since we only have one pet corn, that when the time comes we will be at the vet helping him to make his boat payment so that I can be as far removed from the process as possible.

I remember in science class learning that if you put a frog into tepid water and slowly turn up the heat he will make no attempt to escape...but if you drop him into boiling water he will jump out (or at least frantically try to)...not sure how the heat/reptile/amphibian thing relates to the freezing extreme...but I thought it was interesting as well.

 

[jaxom1957]

The kings were obtained specifically for that purpose.

That's intriguing. Have you ever tried to feed a live snake to one of your kingsnakes?

Dunno what made me think of that. Probably a bad idea but then you wouldn't have to worry about wether you should smash or freeze the corn. Just leave it to the king.

As they are arriving Tuesday morning, no, I haven't fed them anything Prior to buying them, I discussed culling with a couple of friends who have kings and corns, and asked how they felt. One steered me toward some specific species while another discussed the experience of feeding them live culls versus frozen/thawed. Both were very helpful.

I froze the hatchlings I had to cull. Had my kings already been here, I still would have chosen that route. Until I have some experience with the kings' feeding responses and efficiency of dispatch, I won't risk causing unnecessary pain to the snake being put down. I will probably always choose to ensure a merciful death before I dispose of the carcass. I still have a lot to learn, and will let my friends with more experience guide me.

 

[tom e]

If I have to euthanise an animal, I'm doing the fridge/freezer. I understand that it's not accepted as the most painless way, but it's on the list as far as I see it. Anyway, ending it's suffering is the issue for me, and that's hard to do. At least this way I can do what needs to be done.