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how intelligent are snakes?

Otters and elephants also use tools.

They are pretty simple critters, but anything with a brain has some kind of intelligence. The reptilian part of the brain is where we get our most basic emotions from after all.

People have long said "*This* is what separates man from animal" only to have it disproved later (things like tool use, culture, etc.). There isn't one thing that clearly marks the point between man and animal. It is all a matter of degrees. A crow can make a tool out of a stick or paperclip, but man can make a rocket to the moon.

Man is an animal. There is no separating them.

As far as us writing goes:

1) Most animals don't have the needed appendages to write.
2) Maybe they just don't feel the need to do so. I believe that humans have wants and desires that differ greatly than from what other animals want and desire.
3) We did not always write. Writing is also just another learned behavior.
4) Many animals have such a highly evolved social structure there is no need for writing. Elephants for example pass info down from generation to generation. They also use sound that humans can't hear (can be picked up by instruments) to communicate over long distances. So they were basically making long distance phone calls before we ever even thought up the idea of a telephone.
 
Man is an animal ...
Yes

Most animals don't have the appendages to write...among the other answers I could of given..

That hasn't stopped Stephen Hawkin..

We didn't always write it's something we learned.....

Exactly what I'm saying we started simple and developed it over thousands of years we built upon what was left for us to work with..

Many animal have a highly evolved social structure....

My physics teacher was the most unsociable person I've ever met....But he was intelligent...


And subsonic sound is not a measure of intelligence its to do with the size of the animal and the resonance it can produce....

We have never met but we can debate this via writing I can change your mind and you can change my mind by writing, Not something that is passed down but read and evaluated

And as far as maybe they don't feel the need to....

Maybe they do feel the need to, then the first Dodo could have written (in blood) watch out for the new ones they are our enemy.....
MIKE
 
wow

great replys guys -

Just wondering also - not only in snakes but also other animals - but especially snakes cause its relevant to the site.lol

I'm sure we've all noticed how our animals all behave differently, different tempements and such - some to the point where you'd say they each have their own personality.

So as far as a corn example - you could have two differnt snakes from the same clutch - one thats calm as anything, and one that wanst to bite your head off at any opportunity. They both have the same genetic makeup - and the same instincts programmed into them.

Do you guys see this as a sign that maybe they think and do things with a purpose - as a sign of intelligence maybe? Just thought that if it was only up to instincts - they all have the same so would all act exactly the same - so due to my very unscientific observation i conlude that there is alot more going on in those little heads than we can ever understand.

O yeah - my corn has never even so much as threatened to bite me - but when its previous owner (it was given to me) goes near it, it tries to eat him alive,lol - and thats pretty clever imo:)
 
Evolution is the answer. If all animals of the same family acted the same things could go wrong. I believe it's an intelligence of some kind that we call natural selection..
MIKE
 
The problem is that humans use their own intelligence when deciding if non-humans are intelligent. All living things have their own intelligence and just because we do not understand it does not mean they are not intelligent.

Ants build underground kingdoms and utilize other creatures for their needs; this is intelligence. A pride of lions will utilize an effective attack pattern to take down food; this is intelligence.

A female African Rock python mothers her offspring up to four months - shows intellegence. A female cobra will defend her nest of eggs - another sign of intellegence. Even the lowly act of moving in one's tank to a more comfortable place shows intellegence. It's all how you look at it.
 
It's hard to distinguish between instinct and intelligence.

For instance, some humans are afraid of heights and have no reason to be. Is fear an instinct if its something we have no experience with?

Also, many people fear what they don't know, just like a young corn is generally more nippy than a well raise adult.

I agree all animals have some form of intelligence except maybe some microbiotic creatures. but even some jellyfish that have the tiniest uni-cellular brain exhibit forms of decision making.

It's just one of those things that we could debate and support from either side for days on end.

But, when related to our beloved limbless friends, they seem to all have their own personalities, likes, and dislikes. So, who knows.
 
Jcapicy

But, when related to our beloved limbless friends, they seem to all have their own personalities, likes, and dislikes. So, who knows.

funnynonsense

Do you guys see this as a sign that maybe they think and do things with a purpose - as a sign of intelligence maybe? Just thought that if it was only up to instincts - they all have the same so would all act exactly the same - so due to my very unscientific observation i conlude that there is alot more going on in those little heads than we can ever understand.

I put this down to sexual reproduction - meiosis,

Meiosis naturally leads to variation, variation in everything, including behavioural responses.

Tom
 
meant to add, does individuality equate to intelligence?????

meiosis creates individuality, but does that mean every animal is intelligent regardless? as they all reproduce sexually?
 
Individuality = Intelligence???

Hmmm, lets think on that, shall we....

No.

I know a ton of diff from each other some are worth talking to and some are total dips!@$s. I'd have to say there is not a connection there but that too shows individuality which leads to survival of the fittest, adaptation, personalities.

Sorry, had to get a little humor in there!

Ok, now a bit more serious now.

Here are 2 articles that relate that were recently in the news. Please note, I only copied these from http://www.animalintelligence.org/ which is a great site with a good amount of info.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Rhesus Crisis in India
November 27th, 2007 · No Comments
Newsweek has an awesome slideshow profiling the Rhesus monkey infestation in northern India. There are ten photographs with brief captions describing the ways in which these creatures interact with the humans around them. Here’s the full text of the introduction by Rajesh Kumar Singh:

The Oct. 20 death of Delhi Deputy Mayor S. Bajwa, who died from a fall he took while trying to scare a troop of rhesus macaques off the balcony of his home, brought to the world’s attention a growing problem in India’s cities: how to make sure the country’s various primate species live in harmony with the dominant one — Homo sapiens.

Recently, Delhi’s rhesus macaques have been getting into all sorts of, well, monkey business, tossing around top-secret documents at the defense ministry, pursuing commuters right on to the cars of the city’s new subway system, even invading hospitals and yanking IVs out of patients’ arms so they can suck up the glucose.


photo by Channi Anaqnd, Associated Press


But dealing with the problem is tricky: the simians are sacred to Hindus; the cute but deceptively dangerous critters are representations of the monkey god Haruman.

As India’s metropolises expand, the monkeys’ natural habitat has been squeezed, resulting in even more confrontations between man and monkey. But animal-rights advocates have been critical of efforts to combat the problem — leading some local bigwigs, who live in the primates’ path, to bring in bigger monkeys in hopes of scaring off the smaller fry.

According to this week’s issue of Newsweek, this slideshow was the most-viewed story on newsweek.com last week. I love it.

[Newsweek: Monkeys in the middle]
---------------------------------------------------------------
Are Animals Self-Aware?
November 19th, 2007 · 4 Comments
Digging through the archives at Ask Metafilter, I stumbled upon an awesome discussion from last month. User showbiz_liz writes:

What are the arguments for and against the idea that animals have self-awareness?

I’m in an anthropology class called Moral Consciousness that discusses human conceptions of selfhood. It’s a very interesting class, but I have one problem with it- the professor has stated several times, in an off-hand, of-course-this-is-true sort of way, that ONLY humans have selfhood. He seems to have a basic assumption that animals don’t, and that humans have overcome their instincts in a way that animals can’t.

I’ve always been very interested in the idea that humans and animals are far less different than we usually assume, and I’m not sure if I can just accept my professor’s assumption without some evidence. I’m reminded of statements like “animals don’t use tools” and “animals don’t have emotions” that were accepted for years and later disproven. So, when he says that only humans are capable of thinking of themselves as “I”, or of rejecting food when they are starving, or of sacrificing themselves, or of thinking abstractly, it bothers me that he isn’t presenting any evidence. I’m not sure if there actually IS evidence for these things, or if they’re just baseless assumptions.

So- where can I find some decent evidence for and/or against my professor’s statements? Are there actually papers and studies on the question of animal self-awareness?

Last year, I wrote that researchers have concluded that elephants are self-aware. One commenter notes that primates and dolphins have also passed tests of self-awareness.

From the discussion at Ask Metafilter:

It seems obvious that animals have emotions. My own experience backs this up. Every animal I have ever known has moods, and most seem to have emotions of some sort. I’m not always able to decipher their exact emotions — is my cat sad, angry, or just bored? — but it seems clear that they’re feeling something.
It also seems obvious that different individual animals within a species have different levels of intelligence, just as different humans have different levels of intelligence. Again, I’ve known some very smart cats. But I’ve also known some cats who were as dumb as posts. There’s some sort of statistical distribution at play.
Anyhow, this thread isn’t too long — it can be read in ten or fifteen minutes — and it’s filled with fascinating discussion on the subject. Well worth your time if you find this subject interesting at all.

[Ask Metafilter: Dogs: People too?]
 
For the Plant Lovers!

Here is another article on inteligence of the non-human kind.

Please, I beg, as it has come up in numerous biology classes be very careful when talking about a plant moving to face the sun. I know this seems like the plant is purposely doing so but in a lab we disproved this using a heating element without any UV light and the plant still turned.

What is happening is the water in the cells closest the heat source is moved to the cells furthest from the heat source due to the drying effect of the heat and the water needs to evaporate or move. This happens due to a combination of osmosis and rapid expansion and contraction of the water molecules resulting in most of the water moving away from the heat where it cools and the process slows.

This has little to do with the article below, but having seen it come up so often, I wanted to try and prevent that from happening here. Granted, the plant could be moving the water on it's own, and be self aware. Knowing it must move the water or lose it as an incentive???? Hmmm....

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Does Plant Communication Imply Intelligence?
October 15th, 2007 · No Comments
I believe that animals possess greater intelligence than most people give them credit for. But plants? I’ve never considered the possibility of plant intelligence. The idea seems absurd.

Yet I’ve had friends argue that plant intelligence might exist. “What are the differences between plants and animals?” they ask, and then argue about certain species (none of which I can remember) that seem to share traits of both.

New research suggests that plants communicate via “networks”. Plant communication is not a new idea, and not indicative of intelligence, but interesting nonetheless:

Recent research from Vidi researcher Josef Stuefer at the Radboud University Nijmegen reveals that plants have their own chat systems that they can use to warn each other. Therefore plants are not boring and passive organisms that just stand there waiting to be cut off or eaten up. Many plants form internal communications networks and are able to exchange information efficiently.

Many herbal plants such as strawberry, clover, reed and ground elder naturally form networks. Individual plants remain connected with each other for a certain period of time by means of runners. These connections enable the plants to share information with each other via internal channels. They are therefore very similar to computer networks. But what do plants want to chat to each other about?

Recently Stuefer and his colleagues were the first to demonstrate that clover plants warn each other via the network links if enemies are nearby. If one of the plants is attacked by caterpillars, the other members of the network are warned via an internal signal. Once warned, the intact plants strengthen their chemical and mechanical resistance so that they are less attractive for advancing caterpillars. Thanks to this early warning system, the plants can stay one step ahead of their attackers. Experimental research has revealed that this significantly limits the damage to the plants.

Again, I don’t believe this reflects intelligence, but it is certainly fascinating.

[Physorg: Clever plants chat over their own network]
 
Jcapacity : Individuality = Intelligence???

Hmmm, lets think on that, shall we....

No.

I know a ton of diff from each other some are worth talking to and some are total dips!@$s. I'd have to say there is not a connection there but that too shows individuality which leads to survival of the fittest, adaptation, personalities

Lol, ok cool, i thought you may be arguing the opposite at first, hence my posting ;)
 
I read years ago of a gorilla that had learned to sign
. It new the word for water and the word for bird (among lots of other words) an pieced them together when pointing at a duck.. Now learning to sign is a measure of intelligence but the piecing together of two words to explain something else is a real measure of intelligence.
MIKE
 
I can't find it, but a few weeks back CNN had a segment on Chimps and numbers sorting vs college students.

It was found that young chimps had a higher rate of being correct in the task of sorting #'s but chimps 5 and over found it very difficult. They want to try it again with younger humans to see if our mental processing slows down as we age. I was quite impressed by the chimps!
 
TW,

I figured I have tried to stick with non-biast verifiable information thus far that I might as well use a biast view for a laugh in an all too serious thread!

granted I typo'd:

"I know a ton of PEOPLE diff from ..."

Funny, made me think of the expression some of us use when we mess up. "I'm only human" Kind of implies we're highly failable huh!
 
I have to admit i'm abit partial to the more serious threads, some of the opinions on here are real thought provokers, and to be honest i need all the stimulation i can get, sitting at my work desk waiting for the phone to ring ;)

but after this thread, i may have to stick to complimenting peoples snakes for a while :rofl:
 
so true!

The URL I posted in one of my replies this AM has a lot of neat stuff on it. It is where those 3 articles came from. I had to limit myself to the first 3 decent/relevant ones I noticed!

Side note: I survive at work by going to Addictinggames.com! Might help you out.
 
This thread has been some interesting reading -

Looking at the Rhesus monkey's mentioned earlier - They have a hugely complicated social structure - and I was watching a thing on discovery ( I know I'm a geek.lol) where a male tricked the dominant male in the group so he could sneak off into the bush to get it on with one of his females.

They gave each other "the look" a.k.a "bedroom eyes" when the dominant male wasn't looking. and when they had a chance they went off into the bush.

I know this is driven by the desire to mate - but the creative ways they come up with to get it done shows a great deal of intelligence.

Thats just one example of an animal with a complex social structure - even if we look at dolphins, I've heard that they communicate with their clicks and various other sounds - this implies that they understand each other and to me this means they have some form of language - however basic it may be. hmmmmm

What about chimps and dolphins who commit murder? and I also understand that dolphins enjoy sex. (when its for fun its sex and not mating guys) and that makes them really clever :Dlol

Funny, made me think of the expression some of us use when we mess up. "I'm only human" Kind of implies we're highly failable huh!

LMAO
 
Oooo, theory threads, ought to love these :)

I just wanted to say a couple of things:

as far as I am aware, animal's intelligence is measured by its' capacity to learn, use tools and adjust into a new situation by utilizing its surroundings properly. From what I saw so far, the examples that were give in my opinion at least all point to a fact we're already aware of- thermal sensitivity. Snakes can sense vibrations from the surface and are extremely sensitive to temperature differences- I think a snake would know how to leave a maze simply by following the trail which is cooler- as air is more available on the other side. It also explains how snakes strike at an arm rather than a pole or a hook- the human hand is warm and big- easily can register as a thread while a hook is like a moving tree at best.

Also communication- ours is hardly as remarkable as the types of communication that exists in the wild. Dolphins, bats, elephants, whales- all of these have communication capabilities we're only now beginning to understand, and have no way of emulating at this point.

Another approach which I confess- I have little love for. "Humans destroy the planet, how can we be intelligent".

I am looking at it from the opposite direction. No single organism on the face of this planet preserves nature -knowingly-. all organisms, great and small, predator or prey, bacteria- all of these would decimate every single resource available to them if they weren't checked by the natural selection and carnivore-herbivore food chain.

I don't really measure the human intelligence by our ability to learn or use our hands- I take it as natural advantages. However, we invented terms like morality, conscience, knowingly sacrificing ourselves for our children or even others who have nothing to do with us.

We take upon ourselves to care for other -species-.

And many of us work to preserve this planet.

Animals don't just hunt in order to eat- that's false, predators do kill for sport, to showoff and to let some steam out.

Many of us are attempting to subdue our selfish instincts- in a scale which no other species on earth tries.

So yes we're not perfect, and due to our intelligence we also came up with new ways to destroy more efficiently.

But I think we're a miracle, in a way- for we are basically animals. We don't -have- to give from ourselves to others, let alone other animals. We can go on living and self destruct ourselves, any other animal would if nature did not restrain it.

Well, it's just an opinion anyways.

Hope I did not bore the pants off of you lot
 
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