I did all I possibly could...

[Tula_Montage]

... But this wee boy wasn't meant to make it.

I took him in for a friend as she had too many non feeders and not enough time. He never once ate voluntarily but took around 6 assist feeds with no probelms. It simply wasn't enough... He got weaker and skinnier and tonight I found him struggling to pass solid greenish urates. I lifted him up and he was just too weak to wriggle free and had horrific skin folds. Enough is enough. RIP baby boy. I am so sorry I couldn't help you... but you are out of your misery now

 

[diamondlil]

Condolences Elle.

 

[Tula_Montage]

Condolences Elle.

Thanks J9. I knew there was a big chance the three I took wouldn't make it. But it just doesn't get any easier. Finding them dead is one thing, chosing to end their life is another

 

[tom e]

RIP little guy! Sorry to hear it Elle. It's never easy, is it..

 

[diamondlil]

Yep, I know. I've got 3 non-feeders that have so far refused f/t and live. I haven't decided whether to wait, assist or euthanise.

 

[Susielea]

I'm so sorry Elle, but you did the best you could and at least he isn't suffering now, some are just not meant to make it

 

[Tula_Montage]

I know guys thanks. But thinking on it, would you want to send a snake that started out as a non feeder out into the gene pool? Even if I did get him started eventually, how would anyone guarentee his poor feeding genes (not to mention he has a kinky non feeding sister which I also have) would not spread...

It's always such a tough descision to make, but when theres that glimmer of hope you can't help but want to just give them a chance

 

[Bluebird]

aww..so sorry Elle...I'm sure it was very difficult for you.

 

[Rebecca_in_NY]

I'm so sorry he didn't make. Although new to cornsnakes, I'm certainly not new to animals and untimely deaths/euthanisia and you're right, it never gets any easier. You obviously did all you could and your care and dedication is to be commended.

 

[Kazarus]

I don't think I'd kill something because of it being a poor feeder. I can understand if it's kinky though.

A friend of mine has horrible feeders. It was a struggle every time to get those two to eat. And then they eventually got better. And when they had babies, the babies ate fine. So I'm not really convinced issues with feeding are genetic mutations.

But hopefully they are, as I wouldn't want people to be killing their snakes just due to the fact that it's too much to give them the chance and work with them.

 

[Tula_Montage]

I don't think I'd kill something because of it being a poor feeder. I can understand if it's kinky though.

A friend of mine has horrible feeders. It was a struggle every time to get those two to eat. And then they eventually got better. And when they had babies, the babies ate fine. So I'm not really convinced issues with feeding are genetic mutations.

But hopefully they are, as I wouldn't want people to be killing their snakes just due to the fact that it's too much to give them the chance and work with them.

I think you miss the point. He was starving to death BECAUSE he was a non feeder despite trying every trick in the book AND assist feeding. Feeding issues have deffinatley been proven to be genetically inheritable (take the original strains of blood reds for example). I have no doubt whatsoever that I made the right descision. Not only was he a non feeder, he was having impaction problems and was too weak to push out his urates. Would you have left him to it and just waited to see if he got better or waited until he died? Because I know what the outcome would have been, and was not willing to let him suffer any longer.

 

[Nanci]

I'm glad he at least had a chance. Who knows why he didn't take it. Probably something internally wrong.

 

[starsevol]

So sorry, Lass.
I'm facing the same thing over here....

 

[Tula_Montage]

The thing that bothers me most is that my friend still has lots of these non feeders. A few died recently actually. I just want to take them all and at least TRY.

I wasn't going to assist feed the female motley girl tonight (his sister) but seeing him go the way he did made me just get on and do it (I hate doing it). She has a pink in her now, and should keep her going until I figure out what it is she wants to eat. She was into chicken to a while, but apparently not anymore?

 

[diamondlil]

It's too easy to get emotionally involved and continue to try to 'save' little creatures. Sometimes more for our own benefit than for theirs. To know when to stop and make a decision to euthanise is the hardest aspect IMO.

 

[Tula_Montage]

It's too easy to get emotionally involved and continue to try to 'save' little creatures. Sometimes more for our own benefit than for theirs. To know when to stop and make a decision to euthanise is the hardest aspect IMO.

I know... I do tend to go into saviour syndrome, and most of the time it's to make ME feel better. The right descisions are always the hardest.

 

[diamondlil]

I know... I do tend to go into saviour syndrome, and most of the time it's to make ME feel better. The right descisions are always the hardest.

I certainly do go into 'saviour mode' too easily Elle, big hugs to you, losing little ones is never easy.

 

[Kazarus]

I think you miss the point. He was starving to death BECAUSE he was a non feeder despite trying every trick in the book AND assist feeding. Feeding issues have deffinatley been proven to be genetically inheritable (take the original strains of blood reds for example). I have no doubt whatsoever that I made the right descision. Not only was he a non feeder, he was having impaction problems and was too weak to push out his urates. Would you have left him to it and just waited to see if he got better or waited until he died? Because I know what the outcome would have been, and was not willing to let him suffer any longer.

I didn't miss the point at all, as I was not commenting on your particular choice in this instance. As it were, I was simply answering a question you asked. Maybe you meant it rhetorically, but when I see a question asking for opinions, and I happen to have one, I give it. I don't expect everyone to always agree, but I do expect the person to be civil and not get upset when they get an opinion when they asked for one, even if it wasn't one they wanted to hear.

In the end, I don't think you did anything wrong at all, and I'm not making judgments here. I was merely passing on evidence that is is possible to rescue a snake from the brink of death, as I've seen in my friend's case. And as you so adequately put it, I can't help but want to give them a chance.

...But thinking on it, would you want to send a fussy feeder out into the gene pool?...It's always such a tough descision to make, but when theres that glimmer of hope you can't help but want to just give them a chance

 

[Tula_Montage]

I didn't miss the point at all, as I was not commenting on your particular choice in this instance. As it were, I was simply answering a question you asked. Maybe you meant it rhetorically, but when I see a question asking for opinions, and I happen to have one, I give it. I don't expect everyone to always agree, but I do expect the person to be civil and not get upset when they get an opinion when they asked for one, even if it wasn't one they wanted to hear.

In the end, I don't think you did anything wrong at all, and I'm not making judgments here. I was merely passing on evidence that is is possible to rescue a snake from the brink of death, as I've seen in my friend's case. And as you so adequately put it, I can't help but want to give them a chance.

Until you PERSONALLY work with non feeder hatchlings and realise how heart breaking it is to FORCE them to stay alive for your own selfish reasons as I have done, then you cannot possibly pass judgment.

I am upset (don't dare tell me not to be), I have just let go something I considered very precious and VERY worthwhile. I would have put the effort in to keep him alive a thousand times over, but it was the best possible descision for this snake, especially concerning his inability to pass urates that were blocking his vent.

I gave this boy every chance in the world...

 

[Kazarus]

And to further clarify, your case was a non feeder. I think what you did was the right thing to do, with a non feeder. Your question, however, asked whether or not we think we should do the same with fussy or poor eaters, in which case I felt the need to reply that I would not.

My tale of my friend's snakes having a similar problem and making it through was there to give you hope that not all poor feeders are a lost cause. Some can make it through, and I hope the rest of your friends's do.