I don't get this...

[Wylie]

I fed my 3 mo old corn snake a 1 day old pinkie 5 days and 10 hours ago. As usual, I got him out tonight to handle him a bit before I go to bed. I got him out, sat down and right away I let him go into my sweat shirt pocket, after a while I noticed him writhing around like crazy so I look in there, and just caught him at the end of a REGURGE!!!! ACK!!! What in the world??? After FIVE days???

Also, it might be important to note, that at the 57 hour point, (57 hrs after feeding him), I went to get him out and noticed that he STILL had a lump on him where the mouse would be sitting. Soo, I only handled him very gently for a few minutes then put him back and got on here to ask for advice. Next time I handled him was at the 80 hour point and I handled him normally as I always do and with him there is never much moving around, he likes to just hang out on me so that's what I let him do while I just sit there as well. But even at the 80 hour point I could still tell where the mouse was. Yesterday I handled him again as normal, then today same thing, as I explained above, but... I could STILL make out where the mouse was! Now of course I can't because he threw it up. So now this doesn't seem normal to me, should I be able to tell where the mouse is 4 and 5 days later??? I would think that is what you call prolonged digestion which is NOT a good sign! Anyone?

Also, just to clarify, cause I know someone will ask, and rightly so, the temps on the cool side range from 69 to 78 degrees and on the warm side.. this will take some explaining... I keep the temp as close to 92 as I can with the cheap rheostat I have (a thermostat is on it's way in the mail), and let me explain... I have many layers of paper towels down for substrate plus the hides sit on top of the paper towels, (of course) and the thermometer probe is underneath the paper towels on the glass in the center of the UTH. So one day I took another thermometer I had and placed it inside the hide that is right over the top of the center of the UTH to see what the hide temp was, and it was 85 degrees. So I figured out that there is about a 7 degree difference between the temp directly on the glass (where Wylie NEVER goes) and what the temp is in the log hide where he has been hanging out ever since I fed him. Soo... temps are fine, right? Also, I change out his water in his two water bowls once a week. I don't know what else might have caused him to regurge besides, yikes, some sort of pathogen in his digestive system!!!

Help!!! I'm so in love with this snake, I can't lose him!!!

 

[Wylie]

Oh, and after he regurged and was just resting on my hand, then he peed on me. Don't know if that's significant or not but I thought I'd go ahead and mention it just in case.

Also, I put him back in his tank about 25 min ago and he is still in the exact same position and place I put him in. He only moved slightly when I put him back in his tank and he hasn't moved since.

He seemed pretty lethargic after the regurge, I'm thinking perhaps this is normal because it probably takes a lot out of the snake, especially a little 3 mo old?? Gosh I hope so, I can't help but think I'm gonna find him dead in the morning.

 

[hartsock]

I am going to say maybe stress related??? Your sig says you just got him on 1/3/08. It's a baby, It's in a new place, It needs an adjustment period. Do a search on here for regurg advice, there is info from Kathy Love that had helped me when I was a noob. But I would say, put him away and don't touch him for anything. If you change the water, change it quickly and leave him alone. Give him more of a settling in period. As far as there still being a lump after that long...I don't know why it would be there if temps are good. Hopefully someone will come along who knows more than what I do....are you sure the pinkie was totally thawed before the snake ate it?

 

[TWGarland]

sorry to hear about this. Try not to panic yet though.

Do you know the regurge protocal?

No idea why that could have happenned though, sounds like your doing everything right.

There could be other reasons like a dodgy pinky for example, was it thawed fully? it could just be one of those things.

The pee' ing sounds weird though, was it very watery?

When you try to feed again, (after the recommended 10 ish days of waiting to re-feed), if it results in another regurge, cos your snake seems listless and weak, then maybe a vet visit would be in order:shrugs:

 

[TWGarland]

hartsock I am going to say maybe stress related??? Your sig says you just got him on 1/3/08. It's a baby, It's in a new place, It needs an adjustment period. Do a search on here for regurg advice, there is info from Kathy Love that had helped me when I was a noob. But I would say, put him away and don't touch him for anything. If you change the water, change it quickly and leave him alone. Give him more of a settling in period. As far as there still being a lump after that long...I don't know why it would be there if temps are good. Hopefully someone will come along who knows more than what I do....are you sure the pinkie was totally thawed before the snake ate it?

Good call, i didn't see it was a new aquisition

 

[Susan]

It does sound alot like stress is a factor. Besides being a new acquisition, you may be handling him too much, especially if you've noticed he still hasn't digested his meal. It's very important to NOT handle a hatchling if they haven't finished digesting their meal. Double check your temps to make sure everything is fine there and follow the regurge protocol. Good luck!

 

[toyah]

Where does he tend to sit in the tank? For the pinky to be undigested 4-5 days later shows that he is having problems digesting, which normally points to temperature. I read your temperatures explanation, and it makes sense - but baby corns tend to burrow *under* paper, as it's more secure. If he's burrowing and getting to 92, then it's too warm, so he's moving the cool side more often and not digesting properly.

I would warm up the cool end temperatures a little bit, and cool the hot end down a little. When you next feed him in ten days, hopefully that will make a difference..

I would also change his water more than once a week, and maybe consider adding a supplement to the water to help digestion/gut flora.

 

[snakewispera snr]

I know it's hard to do, but try to forget you got a snake for a few months.
We leave all our new snakes alone as much as possible, until they have got a lot bigger.
We look in every day for water and we clean them out as careful as possible, but we don't play with them. Just a quick check over and back in the viv.
MIKE

 

[bekers71]

Where does he tend to sit in the tank? For the pinky to be undigested 4-5 days later shows that he is having problems digesting, which normally points to temperature. I read your temperatures explanation, and it makes sense - but baby corns tend to burrow *under* paper, as it's more secure. If he's burrowing and getting to 92, then it's too warm, so he's moving the cool side more often and not digesting properly.

I would warm up the cool end temperatures a little bit, and cool the hot end down a little. When you next feed him in ten days, hopefully that will make a difference..

I would also change his water more than once a week, and maybe consider adding a supplement to the water to help digestion/gut flora.

I have to agree. Corn snakes absorb heat through their bellies and that helps in digestion. If your snake is burrowing, it may be getting too warm so goes over to the cool side. Without the belly heat it is taking it too long to digest. Lowering the temp on the warm side a bit may help the little one to stay over there longer and digest better. Another thing is maybe the snake prefers the hide on the cool side better than the one on the warm side. Switch the hides or get another one just like the one you have. Wait 10 days before feeding again. Other than checking on the snake and changing water daily, don't handle him for that 10 days either. This will help lower the stress level. In the future though, if you notice a lump don't hadle it at all. Not even for a few minutes.

You may think it NEVER goes under the paper towels. But I can guarantee it does at some point and time. Probably when its most active--when you are sleeping.

One regurge is nothing to really worry about.

 

[Wylie]

Pinkie was totally thawed, I pushed on it's belly to check, it felt soft and warm at the time. When I fed it to him a bit later hubby said it was cool to the touch, so should be good there.

Pee was watery.

I know and was planning on following the regurge protocol.

I'm still convinced that he's not going under the paper towels because I'm here almost 24/7 as a stay-at-home mom and I'm always looking in on him. I'm also usually up until 3 AM and then hubby gets up at 6 AM so there would only be 3 hours during the night when he's not watched. Hubby usually looks in on him when he gets up and he's never found him under the paper towels and he's usually the same place he was when I went to bed at 3.

As far as where he hangs out, before I fed him, he mostly hung out on the cool side but once I fed him, then he laid in his log hide which sits over the paper towels and the center of the UTH and the was the hide I took the temp in the one day, when my thermometer reads 92, it reads 85 in the log. He stayed in the log for the first 3 days then after that he moved over to the cave hide in the very center of the tank, so between the warm and cool sides, and that's where he is now.

It's difficult for me to believe it could be stress related because I see no evidence of that, anytime I look in the tank, I can see him without having to pick up a hide to look for him. So he doesn't seem to try and not be seen and I've never ever seen him even try to burrow. He always seems so calm and relaxed to me. I never see any sign that he's frightened or doesn't feel secure. When I pick him up out of the tank he doesn't react one way or the other and then at first he'll just crawl around in my hands a bit then he'll usually just sit there and rest for several minutes, like five, before he moves again for maybe a minute. There is nobody else awake in the house when I handle him and I sit down on a chair with him and that's where I stay until I put him back in the tank. Most of the time when I have him out he just rests on me. I'm extremely observant when it comes to my animals and things like this so I am just finding it really hard to believe it could be stress related when I see no evidence of it. Unless you guys are saying that with a snake that sometimes you just have no way of knowing if they're stressed or not? Or in other words that some snakes will not show any outward signs?

The biggest red flag to me is the fact that I could still make out the lump at the 3, 4, AND 5 day point and it was my understanding that you really shouldn't be able to tell that a snake even ate by the 72 hour point. And if that's the case, then my snake certainly experienced prolonged digestion, so the next question would be why? I don't think it's my temps but if it's not the temps, then the only other thing I can think of is some sort of pathogen. Unless you all think that he would suffer from prolonged digestion purely due to stress, stress which is totally undetectable?

 

[SNAKEWISPERA]

It does sound stress related, what are the temps in the viv?

 

[SNAKEWISPERA]

In the center of his viv

 

[snakewispera snr]

It could be you are looking in on him too much.. In the wild snakes are vulnerable when they are eating, as they can't do anything until the food is down. Then they hide away to digest as they can't move around as well as when they are not full. Re-gurging (IMO) can be a way to lighten the load in case they need to get out of there fast....
Make your set-up fool proof,or as fool proof as possible, so you don't need to check up every 5 mins.
Also if your up till 3am and hubby is up a 6am maybe there is too much light disturbing the little guy.
Why don't you get a sub-adult corn so you can handle it and wait for jr to grow up a bit
MIKE

 

[Wylie]

It could be you are looking in on him too much.. In the wild snakes are vulnerable when they are eating, as they can't do anything until the food is down. Then they hide away to digest as they can't move around as well as when they are not full. Re-gurging (IMO) can be a way to lighten the load in case they need to get out of there fast....
Make your set-up fool proof,or as fool proof as possible, so you don't need to check up every 5 mins.

I don't open the tank or even touch it, the tank sits on top of our computer desk and I just stand up and look in every once in a while. Most of the time I don't even think he knows I'm looking at him cause for instance right now he's in his cave and I can just see part of his body across the entrance.

Also if your up till 3am and hubby is up a 6am maybe there is too much light disturbing the little guy.
Why don't you get a sub-adult corn so you can handle it and wait for jr to grow up a bit
MIKE

That's a great idea, altho there's no way we can afford it unfortunately. I ended up spending around $300 as it was between the snake, getting it shipped, and buying housing and food. I'd be looking at more than that if I got a sub-adult since bigger snakes cost more. I don't have even another $300 to spend. I had it initially thanks to Christmas.

Well, I just talked to hubby about what happened with my snake last night and he thinks it's best also to just follow the regurge protocol and not handle him for a couple weeks. Maybe just the fact that he's still a baby is enough reason not to handle him, just like you aren't supposed to handle newborn kittens and puppies much either (I hadn't really looked at Wylie in that respect before). Not only do I just like to handle Wylie but I was concerned that if I left him alone too long that he wouldn't remain as tame as he is now. Hubby says that won't be the case. He's had a snake before, a ball python, so even he has more snake experience than I do. So I'll try this and hopefully I won't have a problem again, I'd rather have it be a stress related problem than have my snake be physically sick with some sort of pathogen or something.

 

[Wylie]

Is their a consensus on about how old a corn snake should be before it gets handled a lot?

Opinions anyone?

 

[starsevol]

I personally don't handle any of mine "alot". But I like them to be a year old and have some mass to them before I handle them for fun.

Unfortunately, that will change for one of my girls. "Sangria" was eggbound last year. She is a bit chubby and had trouble pushing the eggs out. She is fine now but I intend to handle her everyday for excercise so it won't happen again this year. Since you like handling them so much it's a shame you don't live closer. With all the cage cleaning and feeding. it might be hard for me to fit Sangria's handling in everyday!

 

[Wylie]

I personally don't handle any of mine "alot". But I like them to be a year old and have some mass to them before I handle them for fun.

Unfortunately, that will change for one of my girls. "Sangria" was eggbound last year. She is a bit chubby and had trouble pushing the eggs out. She is fine now but I intend to handle her everyday for excercise so it won't happen again this year. Since you like handling them so much it's a shame you don't live closer. With all the cage cleaning and feeding. it might be hard for me to fit Sangria's handling in everyday!

Well, "a lot" for me would mean everyday and maybe even twice some days. So would you recommend that the snake be a year old in order to be handled everyday for say 20 minutes?

If so, that kind of sucks for me, cause by the time my snake is a year old I'll have a newborn baby plus my oldest son to take care of so I highly doubt it would get much handling for probably another year.

 

[diamondlil]

I only handle the little ones to put in their feeding tubs and back. It might look like 'it's ok for me to say that, I've got biggun's to handle', but I actually only handle the bigger ones minimally too most of the time. I've got a totally dependent dog and 3 teenage boys, so having pets who don't want or need my attention is actually part of the attraction for me!

 

[Mr.AJ]

I handle chompy once or twice a week on average for around 15-20minutes at the most. He is making slow improvements, hes only small not sure of age though. Hes around 16inches at the moment.

 

[MerlinsPop]

I'm sorry to hear about your regurge. I'm sure you'll get her 'on the mend' soon enough.

I think a lot of people, myself included, want to handle their snakes more often than they oughta (particularly younguns). On the spectrum of 'interactive' pets, I'd put snakes far closer to the Goldfish end than on the Dog/Cat end.

Good luck with her!