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If you were to invest...

5 Star Serpents

Ryan and Terri
I'm curious what peoples opinions were of what "high end" morph that they would most likely invest in. By high end I mean looking to pay $2000 and up per animal.
Assume you are in an area that is quite limited as far as new morphs go and that you had access to be able to ship/import from anywhere that you would like.
I'm most curious if people would chose Palmetto's or scaleless, understanding that scaleless are a hybrid, just the fact that they bring something completely new to the table, and why you would chose the one you would, what you think the future of the ones you chose is going to be like and which you feel might be more appealing to the general public.
Thoughts anyone ?:spinner:
 
I'm curious what peoples opinions were of what "high end" morph that they would most likely invest in.
Absolutely none. Corns as an investment are a very poor proposition. If I buy a high-end hatching now, many other people will as well. By the time I'm ready to breed mine, so will they be. Prices will drop. High-end morphs only stay that way for a very limited time.

"Investment" implies that you're expecting a return on your money which represents a significant or worthwhile profit. The only people who truly make money are morph originators. Even then, I wonder if the money they recoup truly covers the years of effort and breeding programmes which it takes to find and prove out a new morph.
 
None.... or Ball Pythons. ;)

This provides a little insight. It's from Don's site regarding the Palmetto pricing. The break down is very well done.

In an effort to protect the market integrity of new corn snake mutations and morphs, here at South Mountain Reptiles we employ prudent marketing and sales practices. Unlike the Ball Python and Hognose snake markets whose products sustain prolonged market vigor, corn snakes have always been over-produced and under-valued. Sometimes, in just two or three captive generations (and often after just one generation) new, rare, and exciting corn snake mutations and morphs crash to half their initial market value - or less.

Naturally, affordability is what all consumers desire, but for those who wish to purchase corn snakes as potential money-makers, premature market devaluation is all too common and disappointing.To date - just like most consumer products - ALL corn snake mutations and morphs have eventually reached affordable levels, so the initial high price of new corn morphs is no indication that they will never be affordable. Every new reptile morph that is offered to the public is initially offered at an INVESTMENT PRICE. Just like most products, the fewer there are for sale, the higher their prices. When supply of such products reaches or exceeds the level of consumer demand, prices begin to come down. Breeders expend great amounts of money, labor, and time in taking a new morph from discovery to market, and therefore deserve compensation for their investment, work, feeding, and maintenance expenditures.

What most people do not understand is that for every new morph that is popularly accepted by consumers, perhaps four such promising projects failed (in terms of expense compensation). This is sometimes because the economy wouldn't justify the price OR someone produced the same morph you did but offered them for less money OR the consumers and investors were simply not attracted to the new morph. This essentially means that for the hundreds or thousands of mice, dollars, and hours committed to five new and promising morphs, usually only one will reward the breeder with compensation for all five projects. In a market such as corn snakes - which is highly consumer-driven - profit on some morphs is frequently unattainable. Most corn snake sellers are fortunate if they have enough sales to pay their mouse bills, but since it is only a hobby for those who have other careers, and therefore do not rely on snake sales for their living, low or no profits are acceptable to them. For a few of us whose career is producing and selling corn snakes, without new projects to make up for the low-priced over-the-counter corns in depressed markets, reasonable profits can sometimes be difficult to attain. Therefore, new mutations and morphs like the Palmetto are essential for career snake-breeders so they can have the financial luxury of investing in other new mutations and morphs, without being forced out of business from insufficient sales.



My reason for detailing the pricing and marketing process is mainly because of the emails and calls I get over the years from frustrated snake lovers who wonder why a new morph like the Palmetto is so expensive and largely unaffordable. If you wait long enough, all new morphs will be affordable to the masses. It's not like the dog and cat industries that sell pet grade animals that have been altered so they cannot reproduce. They sell such altered animals as pets for much less money than the ones that are capable of reproduction.

Source: South Mountain Reptiles
 
I maybe chose the wrong word, it has absolutely nothing to do with turning a profit, trust me we have around 150 snakes, I put in countless hours everyday in my snake room, I'm just interested if someone was to put money into a CURRENTLY high end morph what would it be. I realize the work and time that goes into them.
 
I maybe chose the wrong word, it has absolutely nothing to do with turning a profit, trust me we have around 150 snakes, I put in countless hours everyday in my snake room, I'm just interested if someone was to put money into a CURRENTLY high end morph what would it be. I realize the work and time that goes into them.

In that case, purchase the morphs you like to work with. If you like caramel, do multi-gene caramel combos or something along those lines.

Breed what you like.

Honestly, with the way the market is, Palmetto is the only high end anything worth the gamble. Otherwise, breed what you enjoy.
 
And we do breed what we love:).
I'm personally partial to the scaleless myself as it offers....hmmm whats that right choice of words here...a new form of everything that's already out there, if that makes sense. As gorgeous and unique as the palmetto is that's just my own opinion of it. That being said my opinion could change greatly as we see the palmetto's being combined into multi-gene combos because even though there are probably many people who would like to see it left alone there is that many more who, like myself are interested in what it does once other factors are at play (I see people having a hayday with them combined with the different hypo morphs out there, not that that would be my choice to combine it with necessarily).
I was more just interested in what others would chose if they had unlimited resources and not in an area where everyone and their neighbor was breeding corns :crazy02:
 
I didn't think there were many corn morphs selling for $2000! Palmetto, scaleless.

You're better off just picking something you like. It's pretty fun to try to make something no one else has made before, but it's also difficult to beat everyone else. Whatever you can think of, so has someone else.

It's also fun to selectively breed a morph you locality that interests you. I'm trying to make my vision of ideal milksnake-phase Miamis, and it was indescribable to hatch a female F3 that exceeded her parents and grandparents.
 
Personally I would go with the scaleless morphs. Aneries are insane looking. Also Don has the market cornered on palmettos and no one will ever catch up to him.
 
I didn't think there were many corn morphs selling for $2000! Palmetto, scaleless.

You're better off just picking something you like. It's pretty fun to try to make something no one else has made before, but it's also difficult to beat everyone else. Whatever you can think of, so has someone else.

It's also fun to selectively breed a morph you locality that interests you. I'm trying to make my vision of ideal milksnake-phase Miamis, and it was indescribable to hatch a female F3 that exceeded her parents and grandparents.

I agree I didn't think there were any others in that price range...but you never know what someone might be hiding in the back room that only a few people know about yet because the person is just working to make sure it is in fact something new:)

I also agree its fun working with a select morph or locality. We recently imported our first miami from Carol and I knew they were the best of the best but pics do no justice for many of them and I nearly died when the box was opened from the airport, and every time she sheds she just gets more gorgeous... there are so many "normals" out there that are just stunning.

Currently our 6yr old daughter has a butter motley that literally glows, pictures of her are nearly impossible and never capture her color, if there's any light it just comes off her and blurs the whole definition of the photo, we've tried EVERYTHING:nope: I have been holding back babies from every clutch of hers to work with to see if we can consistently reproduce that color. And sure it's only a butter, but I love butters so it works for us.

Now to think of a bright yellow scaleless snake, that might be pretty fun!
 
Personally I would go with the scaleless morphs. Aneries are insane looking. Also Don has the market cornered on palmettos and no one will ever catch up to him.

I take it you must not have seen the U-Haul trailer full of scaleless he left Daytona with, then? They say between him and a friend, there aren't many left in France anymore. :noevil:
 
Didn't make Daytona this year. It was such a disappointed last year it wasn't worth the 11 hour drive for me. Also I get tired of looking at the sea of ball pythons.

I still think scaleless corns are the better investment for the money.
 
I take it you must not have seen the U-Haul trailer full of scaleless he left Daytona with, then? They say between him and a friend, there aren't many left in France anymore. :noevil:

Does this mean that they too will become a "females only for sale" thing like the palmetto's, I'm not saying that's a horrible thing at all I'm just curious if this is going to happen with the scaleless as well.
 
Lol, no. He doesn't have the ONLY scaleless! As a buyer, I appreciate the way Palmettos are being sold.
 
Haha, I feel special right now:laugh::headbang: and this is what happens when I respond to things when I'm too tired and type before I think! Clearly the market on them cannot be controlled by any one person if more than one person has them...Anyways, now that I've had my moment of brilliance today, lets move on LOL!

I have to add that I have no issues with the way the Palmetto is being marketed either.

I am curious however if there is a way to find out how many of the female were sold in 2012 as well as how many spots for registration for the 2013's are left, other than directly contacting Don. I'd also like to see more people coming out with photo's of their girls to see the variance of them.
 
Due to the bad economy there's not many corns I'd currently pay top dollar on. I like the scaleless and palmettos but I have never seen one that screamed I'd pay the asking price. The other day I saw a really odd terrazzo on the corn snake classifieds from faunaads asking around 600 or 800 and if I had the money I would of snatched him up immediately. Instead of the solid straight lines they were wavey and had small uniform dots between them slightly similair to an aztec. It was just downright stunning and the pattern took my breath away. Seeing it's picture I felt like I was actually looking at one of those 'one in a million' snakes. I just couldn't believe how amazing its patterns were.
 
*edit* here is a picture of the snake. Looking over his designs again it's actually more like a cubed terrazzo I think. Whatever the case its top patterning is just to die for I think.

link.jpg
 
Didn't make Daytona this year. It was such a disappointed last year it wasn't worth the 11 hour drive for me. Also I get tired of looking at the sea of ball pythons.

I still think scaleless corns are the better investment for the money.

Hey- it's still a good time, with good friends!! I get to see snake people I only see once a year. AND got to hold the most amazing scaleless corns, AND see a palmetto!!
 
*edit* here is a picture of the snake. Looking over his designs again it's actually more like a cubed terrazzo I think. Whatever the case its top patterning is just to die for I think.

link.jpg

I'd be very surprised if that is a Terrazzo. Looks like a sunkissed something! Maybe SK Terrazzo?? Hmmm.
 
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