I'm curious...

[Nova_C]

It is EASY to hide behind a keyboard and claim you know more about a country that you claim to not live in than even the residents. Of course, it is even harder to give those claims any weight.

So you're going to take your prejudice and shove it. Cool.

 

[tsst]

Wait, what?

Don't tell me you believe a US drug company would sell its drugs to Canada cheaper out of the goodness of their hearts? Or do you think they just believe in the socialist share the wealth philosophy? Or is it more feasible, the extra they charge here allows them to maintain profits for execs and shareholders while expanding their market? ie American consumers indirectly subsidize lower costs for Canada.

 

[Nova_C]

Don't tell me you believe a US drug company would sell its drugs to Canada cheaper out of the goodness of their hearts? Or do you think they just believe in the socialist share the wealth philosophy? Or is it more feasible, the extra they charge here allows them to maintain profits for execs and shareholders while expanding their market? ie American consumers indirectly subsidize lower costs for Canada.

That's pretty ridiculous.

Meds are cheaper in Canada because with a single payer system, the government has a lot more clout to negotiate lower prices. Tell me, why would drug companies sell at a loss in Canada? If they were going to lose money selling in Canada, they'd just refuse the contract from the government.

You know, capitalism and all that.

 

[Pruddock]

That's pretty ridiculous.

Meds are cheaper in Canada because with a single payer system, the government has a lot more clout to negotiate lower prices. Tell me, why would drug companies sell at a loss in Canada? If they were going to lose money selling in Canada, they'd just refuse the contract from the government.

You know, capitalism and all that.

As somebody who is currently in their 5th year of college as a Biomedical Engineer let me answer this for you. The United States pharmaceutical companies can sell drugs to other companies cheaper and still turn the same profit because ya'll's laws are more relaxed and your regulations easier to skimp on or pass. That is why drugs are tested in OTHER countries before being tested in clinical trials in the United States. Even after the drug has been approved the fabrication and sales to other countries is SO much cheaper than it is here. Do you know why? Because the people who are making RIDICULOUS lawsuits against doctors and winning because they had 9 stitches instead of 7 are going to drive up the costs of the drug and healthcare companies. Frivolous lawsuits are ACTUALLY the leading cause for the rise in medical insurance rates, pharmaceutical prices, etc. Now, I'm not saying that ALL lawsuits against doctors are bad because there are some people practicing medicine that should not be doing so, but its difficult for a company to NOT justify the cost of their drug when they may get sued because somebody crapped their pants on the drug while they were at a party and the bottle didn't specifically say "you may crap your pants". This in turn drives up the cost of insurance rates, etc. There are so many factors that people, like you Nova, have no idea about. My guess is you have the slightest clue about healthcare in general, nevertheless the healthcare system and history of the healthcare system in the United States. So, as I respect the fact that you are allowed to voice your opinion on a public post, I would respect YOU more if you would please disappear from the subject, read a few books and talk to a few doctors, politicians, insurance companies, professors, etc. and come back to ask questions and present "valid" points when you have a clue...

Yours always,

PR

 

[TandJ]

Nova..

Have you ever lived anywheres than Canada for more than three monthes at a time?

Honestly, I find the 'big brother' tactics you would use on anyone that doesn't live up to your expectations pretty disgusting. That goes for anyone that would treat someone using government assistance as a second class citizen.

*LOL* OMG.. CSIS... Canada's Big Brother, you don't think they don't ease drop on phone calls, moniter the borders, follow people around, then your completely blind... You make it sound that Canada is a utopia compared to the US... Thats line of crap, because I lived in Canada most of my life and what your spewing for goodness and wholesomeness is nothing but bunk.. In all honestly, there is very little difference between Canaduh and the US.. Except for the names of gas stations and few different perspectives, we are so much horribly alike than we are different.. Just because you are Canadian or Amercian, just not make you any more special, or better than the other..

You remind me a lot of the pocket reader breeders.. They know what they read verbaitum, and they can recite it word for word, and it seems very likely that its the best thing to do, but when it comes to the real world it falls flat on its face..

Like I have noticed before, it seems you get a lot more pleasure coming here to insite angry responses than wanting to have anything to do with general hobby of snake keeping.. To me, your starting to fit the definaition of troll.. I am not judging you, I am just making a mere observation..

However...

Can I honestly say, that Obama is pulling a Hitler, no.. However I don't much like Obama's politic's and sneakiness.. Slowly, but surely, he will be exposed for the man he truely is..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[Nova_C]

As somebody who is currently in their 5th year of college as a Biomedical Engineer let me answer this for you. The United States pharmaceutical companies can sell drugs to other companies cheaper and still turn the same profit because ya'll's laws are more relaxed and your regulations easier to skimp on or pass. That is why drugs are tested in OTHER countries before being tested in clinical trials in the United States. Even after the drug has been approved the fabrication and sales to other countries is SO much cheaper than it is here. Do you know why? Because the people who are making RIDICULOUS lawsuits against doctors and winning because they had 9 stitches instead of 7 are going to drive up the costs of the drug and healthcare companies. Frivolous lawsuits are ACTUALLY the leading cause for the rise in medical insurance rates, pharmaceutical prices, etc. Now, I'm not saying that ALL lawsuits against doctors are bad because there are some people practicing medicine that should not be doing so, but its difficult for a company to NOT justify the cost of their drug when they may get sued because somebody crapped their pants on the drug while they were at a party and the bottle didn't specifically say "you may crap your pants". This in turn drives up the cost of insurance rates, etc. There are so many factors that people, like you Nova, have no idea about. My guess is you have the slightest clue about healthcare in general, nevertheless the healthcare system and history of the healthcare system in the United States. So, as I respect the fact that you are allowed to voice your opinion on a public post, I would respect YOU more if you would please disappear from the subject, read a few books and talk to a few doctors, politicians, insurance companies, professors, etc. and come back to ask questions and present "valid" points when you have a clue...

Yours always,

PR

http://mediamatters.org/research/200411150001

According to the Congressional Budget Office, the total savings of a 30% reduction in malpractice costs would be 0.4%. So if you paid $100 a month for your health insurance, you'd save approximately forty cents a month. I'm not sure that's your culprit, Pruddock.

Also, I'd like to thank you for insulting my intelligence. You do realize that I like to research my positions, present evidence and I respond positively to people who do the same, whether or not they agree with me. This board, particularly the conservative majority on this board, likes to use pure rhetoric and ad hom attacks as their debate technique.

Kinda like you have.

 

[dave partington]

The governments of the USA, Canada & Mexico are engaged in a conspiracy to merge the three countries without the knowledge or consent of "The People."

In furtherance of this conspiracy, the government of the United States is intentionally spending the nation into absolute, unrecoverable Bankruptcy with the intention that the monetary system collapses.

When the U.S. currency collapses, it will take with it, both the Canadian dollar and Mexican Peso because both countries are so heavily invested in the U.S. dollar through trade with the US.

 

[dave partington]

you can find more about it here, too.

 

[Pruddock]

http://mediamatters.org/research/200411150001

According to the Congressional Budget Office, the total savings of a 30% reduction in malpractice costs would be 0.4%. So if you paid $100 a month for your health insurance, you'd save approximately forty cents a month. I'm not sure that's your culprit, Pruddock.

Also, I'd like to thank you for insulting my intelligence. You do realize that I like to research my positions, present evidence and I respond positively to people who do the same, whether or not they agree with me. This board, particularly the conservative majority on this board, likes to use pure rhetoric and ad hom attacks as their debate technique.

Kinda like you have.

What you have quoted is a correct statement. If you were to do that it would not save much directly. Indirectly it would do a great amount of good that you don't read about in this statement or the statement by the CBO (which with their amazing accounting policies and mishaps over the last 30 years I wouldn't trust greatly anyways). What it would do is allow companies to lower costs on products and services BECAUSE they don't have to worry about getting slapped with multiple multi-million dollar law suits for stupid screwups. This would also allow the FDA to not make every innovative device or drug a class 3 item, lowering the costs of GLP, GCP, and GMP on the company which lowers the cost even more. The amount of money in device and pharmaceutical companies alone would drop the cost of healthcare and, in turn, medical insurance by great margins.

I would also like to point out that the website you're looking at is known for being EXTREMELY left wing in its agenda (thus all of the positive NBC and CNBC videos and negative Foxnews videos).

Finally, on account of "attacking your intelligence" I never claimed that you were an unintelligent person. I claimed, and still believe, that you watch NBC a few times on the item and you figure you're now an expert on the policies and culture of the United States and the "rhetoric and ad hom attacks" that the evil conservative use to sway opinion. Which, by the way, is known to happen quite often on both sides of the table. I'm pretty sure the republicans have been listening to it about Bush for the past 8 years.

On any account, I've told myself I was going to stay away from arguing politics on this board and just read so, I bid you adue Nova. Good luck with your argument.

PS

So you're going to take your prejudice and shove it. Cool.

You never make personal attacks do you?

PR

 

[Nova_C]

Nova..

Have you ever lived anywheres than Canada for more than three monthes at a time?




*LOL* OMG.. CSIS... Canada's Big Brother, you don't think they don't ease drop on phone calls, moniter the borders, follow people around, then your completely blind... You make it sound that Canada is a utopia compared to the US... Thats line of crap, because I lived in Canada most of my life and what your spewing for goodness and wholesomeness is nothing but bunk.. In all honestly, there is very little difference between Canaduh and the US.. Except for the names of gas stations and few different perspectives, we are so much horribly alike than we are different.. Just because you are Canadian or Amercian, just not make you any more special, or better than the other..

You remind me a lot of the pocket reader breeders.. They know what they read verbaitum, and they can recite it word for word, and it seems very likely that its the best thing to do, but when it comes to the real world it falls flat on its face..

Like I have noticed before, it seem you get a lot more pleasure coming here to insite angry responses than wanting to have anything to do with general hobby of snake keeping.. To me, your starting to fit the definaition of troll.. I am not judging you, I am just making a mere observation..

Calling me a troll, or insinuating that I am one, is pretty classless, T. I partake in topics that I am interested in. I've never complained that my snake threads usually generate no responses, that only a couple people acknowledge the photos I post of my snake and I'm not experienced enough in snake keeping to offer much in the way of advice to new people. But hey, if you think spamming the boards with meaningless posts about Cerb will add credibility to me, I can do it.

Anyway, my exposure to the US is by participating in a political debate forum where American politics dominate the board simply because there's a lot more Americans there than any other nationality. It's pretty active, 500+ people logged in at any given time, and cover topics that are pretty broad. Lots of conservatives, libertarians, liberals, you name it, participate. They use evidence for their points of view, link to news articles, video clips, stats and other sources to explain their positions. My opinions about American politics has largely been as a result of the Americans, left and right wing, posting on that board. I'm not just forming opinions in a vacuum.

My opinion that Canada and the US have a major ideological divide is because of this board, because of the differences. I live in the most Americanized province in Canada and I still get surprised at some of the differences.

Anyway, since when did I say Canada was a utopia compared to the US? In the health care debate, I would defend Canada from erroneous attacks while promoting the Swiss system since Canada's system isn't run well. I still think it's better than the US system, but it's not enviable. Also, I'm in the midst of hiring for a new contract and I work for a huge international company - I'm exposed to the differences and I know that in Canada, requiring drug tests for employees is illegal, but the company has a policy of drug testing everyone, because the company headquarters are in the US. So we have a special exception to that rule in Canada, something I am glad of. Not because I use drugs (I don't), but because I've always felt that it was an invasion of privacy.

 

[Nova_C]

What you have quoted is a correct statement. If you were to do that it would not save much directly. Indirectly it would do a great amount of good that you don't read about in this statement or the statement by the CBO (which with their amazing accounting policies and mishaps over the last 30 years I wouldn't trust greatly anyways). What it would do is allow companies to lower costs on products and services BECAUSE they don't have to worry about getting slapped with multiple multi-million dollar law suits for stupid screwups. This would also allow the FDA to not make every innovative device or drug a class 3 item, lowering the costs of GLP, GCP, and GMP on the company which lowers the cost even more. The amount of money in device and pharmaceutical companies alone would drop the cost of healthcare and, in turn, medical insurance by great margins.

I would also like to point out that the website you're looking at is known for being EXTREMELY left wing in its agenda (thus all of the positive NBC and CNBC videos and negative Foxnews videos).

I linked that website because it linked to data. I try to avoid using ridiculously biased sources, but the polarization of this debate in the US is making that difficult. You're either a commie pinko or evil capitalist, apparently.

How much of a drop are we talking? I readily admit that the costs of malpractice are something I'm not well versed in. It took me using all my google-fu just to find the numbers I did find - most people saying tort reform will save money have no numbers or estimates at all.

Finally, on account of "attacking your intelligence" I never claimed that you were an unintelligent person. I claimed, and still believe, that you watch NBC a few times on the item and you figure you're now an expert on the policies and culture of the United States and the "rhetoric and ad hom attacks" that the evil conservative use to sway opinion. Which, by the way, is known to happen quite often on both sides of the table. I'm pretty sure the republicans have been listening to it about Bush for the past 8 years.

On any account, I've told myself I was going to stay away from arguing politics on this board and just read so, I bid you adue Nova. Good luck with your argument.

I don't watch the news. I'm not willing to get cable and I get no reception for peasant vision in my place. I get my info from assorted sources around the internet, primarily the sources linked on that debate board I was talking about.

You never make personal attacks do you?

PR

KJUN and I have a special relationship, in that he's the one person on this board I have 0 respect for. I make special exceptions for him.

 

[tsst]

That's pretty ridiculous.

Meds are cheaper in Canada because with a single payer system, the government has a lot more clout to negotiate lower prices. Tell me, why would drug companies sell at a loss in Canada? If they were going to lose money selling in Canada, they'd just refuse the contract from the government.

You know, capitalism and all that.

Do you even read a post before throwing on the socialist blinders? I did not say they sold at a loss. I said "the extra they charge here allows them to maintain profits for execs and shareholders while expanding their market"

drug exec - we can sell the new $1.50 a pill cancer drug in Canada but the gov mandates only $2 a pill

drug company board - that won't cut it for us to keep profits up and maintain stock price and exec bonuses

drug exec - we can up the price in the US to $5 a pill, sell for $2 a pill in Canada, maintain overall profit margins increase market and revenue

drug company board - lets do it!

profit margin in Canada $.50 a pill, in US $3.50 a pill

Drug company stock rises because of increase in revenue and market. Execs get bigger bonuses. Canada gets cheaper drugs. Americans pay the price. Insurance costs here rise. White House cries we need to be more like Canada. They use the fear mongering (they were so quick to protest when the right did it) to cram together a UHC bill that will save us all.

 

[Nova_C]

Not with the costs involved like subsidizing meds to Canada etc. But I believe a gov run system would be exponentially worse not only in service but in long term costs also!

You said 'subsidizing'. I took that to mean that the company wouldn't be selling to Canada if they couldn't overcharge Americans.

So how does that work, anyway? You okay with that? I'm cool with that. It's not really up to the customers to ensure a company's margins anyway.

 

[Michael823]

This is a futile argument, and clearly KJUN could adapt to any living situation with a flawless success. In your opinion there should be no disability, and coincidentally you are not disabled. You will never know what my life is like, and your over generalizations, and demeaning accusations are far too brash to change your mind. Apparently those who still have a finger to type, if nothing else, should be able to earn a living typing without government assistance. This is so far removed from having any understanding that I will not even return to this thread, but I personally think you are clueless of what life is like living with a disability.
According to you, I am just someone who chooses not to work because I don't like the opportunities, but you completely ignore all of the jobs that would overlook me based on my disability. Your right, I would never want to sit in an office taking calls 12hours a day, and I really don't care how that sounds. I'm not nearly as picky about an employer as they are about an employee, so I won't suffer due to discrimination, and work for less because of it. Sitting on a phone all day would do nothing for keeping me active and healthy, and would be sacrificing my future health for meager wage.
Would anyone here take on a lifetime of my disability for the price of my SSI? I can guarantee that none of you would, so how in the world can anyone speak on the matter accurately. You are much too quick to cast away people who haven't had the luxuries you may have had, and rather than be thankful for what you have, you are filled with resentment and envy for what you don't.

 

[KJUN]

KJUN and I have a special relationship, in that he's the one person on this board I have 0 respect for. I make special exceptions for him.

When lying "classless" people who hide behind a keyboard don't respect me, I believe that says I'm acting the moral way. It's like when Castro says we are not communist enough. That's a good sign.

 

[TandJ]

Calling me a troll, or insinuating that I am one, is pretty classless, T. I partake in topics that I am interested in. I've never complained that my snake threads usually generate no responses, that only a couple people acknowledge the photos I post of my snake and I'm not experienced enough in snake keeping to offer much in the way of advice to new people. But hey, if you think spamming the boards with meaningless posts about Cerb will add credibility to me, I can do it.

Whether or not you want to take an honest look.. But that is what is seems like you are certainly portraying.. If it is classless to point out the obvious, I must have no soul, just a big old torn up Glad Garbage bag.. *lol* For real.. I personally think you intentionally look for the differences, when its the similairities that are fair well over looked..

My opinion that Canada and the US have a major ideological divide is because of this board, because of the differences. I live in the most Americanized province in Canada and I still get surprised at some of the differences.

Your right, its your opinion... Believe, I am just as Canadian as you, but I have been exposed to the real America, not the web based blatherings or ideas.. Its way different than what you seem to think America is about.. You would have to live here to get the idea..

I'm exposed to the differences and I know that in Canada, requiring drug tests for employees is illegal, but the company has a policy of drug testing everyone, because the company headquarters are in the US. So we have a special exception to that rule in Canada, something I am glad of. Not because I use drugs (I don't), but because I've always felt that it was an invasion of privacy.

That is one of most common poor excuses used to fight against drug testing.. That fight holds very little waterin my eyes.. Sincerely, I hope you don't ever get hurt by someone that is using, because then your reason will remain valid.. Why is it the companies fault to want to hire someone that is not a chronic or heavy user of impairing activities.. I guess a requirement of a companies Personal Safety is not a big concern. Thats not big brotherism, that is smart business..

Dude, at some point I hope a seed is planted in your thick skull, and you begin to realize that some of the opinions expressed here are not loaded with bias..

Regards... Tim of T and J

 

[tsst]

You said 'subsidizing'. I took that to mean that the company wouldn't be selling to Canada if they couldn't overcharge Americans...

They wouldn't, at least not as cheap. Do you really think a US corporation that is profit based would continue to sell for less if there were no way to make up the difference? Really? Maybe Canada should just open it's own gov run socialist drug manufacturing facilities? Cut out the evil US firm and save Canadians even more money and get better drugs. Of course they would be free for everyone. After a two year wait list. lmao

So how does that work, anyway? You okay with that? I'm cool with that. It's not really up to the customers to ensure a company's margins anyway.

Even worse if you add the gov and don't change anything else!

 

[Nova_C]

Dude, at some point I hope a seed is planted in your thick skull, and you begin to realize that some of the opinions expressed here are not loaded with bias..

Regards... Tim of T and J

Every opinion is biased - it is the very nature of opinions. That's what makes debating fun.

As far as drug testing goes, THC is present in the system for a long time. I don't think it's any of a company's business if someone smokes pot on the weekend.

Our drivers are watched every morning during load out. If they show signs of intoxication, or smell of alcohol, then we're in our rights to demand a test. And I agree with that - if someone is presenting a danger, it should be dealt with, but treating every single person like that with no reason, to me, is wrong.

 

[Nova_C]

They wouldn't, at least not as cheap. Do you really think a US corporation that is profit based would continue to sell for less if there were no way to make up the difference? Really? Maybe Canada should just open it's own gov run socialist drug manufacturing facilities? Cut out the evil US firm and save Canadians even more money and get better drugs. Of course they would be free for everyone. After a two year wait list. lmao

Why would the government open it's own facilities when the private sector is providing quality, affordable drugs?

That's where, I think, the rubber meets the road. I only advocate government intervention in areas where the private system has proved itself incapable or untrustworthy. If the private system is doing fine, as is the government buying drugs from American pharma companies, then why mess with it?

 

[KJUN]

According to you, I am just someone who chooses not to work because I don't like the opportunities, but you completely ignore all of the jobs that would overlook me based on my disability.

You are correct again. If you weren't disabled, you would be qualified for every job in America. Grow up and be realistic. We all see jobs that we aren't qualified to do. It is called LIFE.

What about all of the jobs you COULD do that you ignore. Get off of this idea of entitlement. I mentioned lots of handicapped people that WORK. I know many that would love your disability instead of theirs because at least they could WALK again. What stops you from doing what they are able to do? I don't think it is a physical blockage that stops you from gettign a job.

Your right, I would never want to sit in an office taking calls 12hours a day, and I really don't care how that sounds.

Don't you see how someone who goes to work every day can be upset by you saying you could work but you don't because the job doesn't sound fun? Many Americans are doing jobs they do not WANT to do so that other people can sit and not work at all even though they COULD hold down an earning job for themselves. How is any worker supposed to be HAPPY with that scenario. You are the one that takes it personally when I attack the welfare system. If it bothers you so much, get a job. You already admitted multiple times that you COULD hold down some jobs. I wasn't even talking about you in any of the recent posts, but, of course, everything has to be egocentric around you and your alter ego at least in your mind.

Sitting on a phone all day would do nothing for keeping me active and healthy, and would be sacrificing my future health for meager wage.

What about the people that already do that? What about the healthy people that work in the oil field risking life and limb every day? What about people that drive long commutes to work and see deadly car crashes (that could have been them) on a regular basis? What about all these OTHER people that risk their future health to work today to pay taxes? Why do you THINK you have the right to NOT work for some potential future health while you don't mind getting tax dollars from all of these people that risk THEIR life and health to pay those taxes?

Why is YOUR health more important than theirs?

Would anyone here take on a lifetime of my disability for the price of my SSI?

That is misdirection and I sure hope you are really intelligent enough to know it. Nobody says you choose to be disabled for a free ride. That would be an asinine thought. What I am saying is what you have said more than once already: you CHOOSE not to work because you don't want to work....and the fact that you CAN get disability makes that possible. If you CAN work, but don't....well, how can you call that anything BUT taking advantage of the system? Disability really should be reserved for those that can't work. Period.

THAT is something I will pay with a smile. When people need it, I am MORE than happy to pay to help them. Beyond just tax dollars. When people who could do for themselves drain the system, then I am not happy.

Look at it this way. If there was no disability check. You could get a job and survive. You just wouldn't be happy, and you'd risk your future. That sounds like most other Americans. Since you could, why don't you? Aren't you 22? I assume you graduated at 18. Have you made any progress towards any educational degree or even vocational training? Have you tried to become trained for a job you can do? If not, I really would like to hear why not. I know their are federal grants to help with that, and I believe you'd be an excellent candidate for some. Again, few people complain about paying taxes that end up helping people improve themselves. I never have complained about THOSE taxes.

You are much too quick to cast away people who haven't had the luxuries you may have had, and rather than be thankful for what you have, you are filled with resentment and envy for what you don't.

Earned, Mike. I have the luxuries I have earned. I'm upset about my earnings that are TAKEN from me to give to people that CAN work but don't because it doesn't sound like something that would be FUN. I am MORE than happy to give to those that really need help. Those that CAN do for themselves but do not do for themselves don't deserve help.

If I am "filled with resentment and envy for what," it is for what is stolen from me to give it to those that don't need it and didn't earn it. It's called thievery. It doesn't matter if the government does it or a person does it: it is thievery. I have no problem helping those that NEED it, but if you CAN work (as you have already said you could), then you don't NEED it, do you? You WANT it because you CHOOSE not to work. THAT is the difference.



I have no problems with you because you are disabled. I actually feel sorry for you for that. My problems come in where you admit all the things you COULD do, but you STILL take the free check because that is "easier" than working.