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I'm having a major problem with my girl...NEED HELP!..

I am so sorry she is having such difficulties!

I think you have done an AMAZING job of trying to help her! If it doesn't work out, it sure won't be from a lack of persistence on your part!

You have had 2 vets who sound very competent and experienced, and who have seen the snake in the flesh, unlike myself or the other members. And some members came up with a few suggestions that may or may not have already been considered by one or both vets. So I am at a loss to think of anything worthwhile that hasn't been discussed.

Because the stomach distention was gas and not thickening of the wall, plus the 2 negative tests, sounds like you have pretty much ruled out crypto. And it seems like most viruses run their course in far less time than this, although there are exceptions. Many bacterial infections are not cured by common antibiotics, so it is possible there is something going on with bacteria.

Because the vets have already done numerous lavage, swabs, x rays, and examination of stool and actual regurges, it seems like they have already done most everything short of exploratory surgery. I guess there could be some organ failure, but in those cases the organ often enlarges or changes the blood profile, and is seen in x rays, or blood work (not sure what they did on that score).

The only thing I can think of is that if she can't always properly digest normal food, maybe a liquid, tube fed diet would be easier to digest? I kept 3 baby Amazon tree boas on a liquefied ferret food for 8 months because they wouldn't eat on their own, and I wanted to see how the diet would perform over several months. They did great, and went on to eat a normal diet and eventually grew into beautiful adults.

So if your snake could digest such a diet more fully than the normal diet, perhaps that would help, at least for a while? You could easily monitor whether it was helping by weighing at regular intervals to see if she gained or lost weight.

Sorry I can't really help much. Good luck! And kudos for being an amazing "snake daddy"!
 
Just saw this and I'm sorry Oracle is having such a bad time. It seems your vets have been doing everything they can. I know you've had those negative tests, but I also know that crypto doesn't always shed. I might suggest that the vet make a couple od slides from the next regurged meal (freshly regurged is best) and have an acid-fast staining doen to do just one more test for crypto. I doubt it is, but I would hate to have it missed and the rest of your collection be at risk.

I might also suggest having a barium series of x-rays done, just to check for a partial blockage or other things that a contrast study will pick up that you won't see in a regular x-ray. And who knows, just the treatment with the barium has been known to fix dogs and cats with odd GI upsets. We don't know why, but it just does. Using the Nutribac is an excellent idea, maybe even doing daily doses mixed with a little water instead of just a bit on a small meal. At this stage, flooding the digestive tract with good bacteria can't do any harm, IMO. A liquid, easy-to-digest supplement is also an excellent idea.

The possibility of a lack of pancreatic enzymes and/or an odd bacterial infection is also there. The enzymes would be easy to treat with supplements. Having a culture and sensitivity performed on another gastric lavage might be in order.

Make a concoction of Nutribac, liquified ferret food, digestive enzymes and different antibiotics in tiny, but frequent amounts is something I would try.
 
I was hoping you would post, Susan...

You always seem to have great insight into veterinary problems - and lots of experience, since you see such a variety of vet problems in your profession as a vet tech.

Hope it gets resolved with a positive outcome!
 
It's been a while and I'm sorry. Thank you Kathy and Susan for your input on this. I wish I would have seen it sooner, but school, as you could imagine, has been taking up a lot of my time. Who would have figured that college was so hard?!?! ;)

So an update is due. Oracle has been doing well. She hasn't lost any more weight in the last month. On the same token, she hasn't gained any either. She also hasn't had a regurge in that time as well. She does still have the gastric bulge, but it doesn't seem to be affecting her. She still eats like a champ. She successfully feeds on 16 gram mice or rats. I'm slooooooowly working her up to larger feeders and hopefully things continue to go good.

Well, considering what the poor girl has gone through, I have decided to let nature take it's course and if things take a turn for the worse, then I would decide to have her euthanized. I actually tallied it all up and I'm really over $1400 in veterinary fees. To be exact, it's $1414.07. I really cannot afford much more. I'm a full time student and out of work. If I try to draw any more funds from my own account it would seriously affect my family. It's a tough decision, but one has to say enough is enough. So far she is doing good and I'm praying it stays that way.

I will keep you posted.

Wayne
 
This may or may not help but it is worth a shot if she continues not to gain weight. After reading through the thread, it sounds a lot like an issue I've had with both a cat and a leopard gecko. In both cases, the animals tested negative for bacterial issues and yet were put on antibiotics. They both bloated up, lost weight, regurged, but otherwise seemed healthy. In both cases, their gut did not produce or hold a high enough level of good bacteria. With the cat, this was confirmed with tests and with the gecko, it was confirmed by treatment. In both cases, I stopped antibiotic use and ended up using probiotics on a regular basis. For those I was able to use yogurt with live cultures (I think Activia has one of the highest concentrations as does Greek yogurt). Without the good bacteria, even if they digest food, it doesn't get broken down enough for them to pull sufficient nutrients out which can cause the weight stabilization that you've mentioned. They pull enough to survive, but not to gain. I'm not sure how you would get yogurt into a snake or if they would have an issue digesting the lactose in it. There are now probiotic pills on the market as well which I've used on cats after antibiotic treatment which may work better in a snake. For both of my animals with the issue, I fed them yogurt several times a week. For a snake, I would assume it would just need to be fed when the snake was fed.
 
Dracoluna said:
This may or may not help but it is worth a shot if she continues not to gain weight. After reading through the thread, it sounds a lot like an issue I've had with both a cat and a leopard gecko. In both cases, the animals tested negative for bacterial issues and yet were put on antibiotics. They both bloated up, lost weight, regurged, but otherwise seemed healthy. In both cases, their gut did not produce or hold a high enough level of good bacteria. With the cat, this was confirmed with tests and with the gecko, it was confirmed by treatment. In both cases, I stopped antibiotic use and ended up using probiotics on a regular basis. For those I was able to use yogurt with live cultures (I think Activia has one of the highest concentrations as does Greek yogurt). Without the good bacteria, even if they digest food, it doesn't get broken down enough for them to pull sufficient nutrients out which can cause the weight stabilization that you've mentioned. They pull enough to survive, but not to gain. I'm not sure how you would get yogurt into a snake or if they would have an issue digesting the lactose in it. There are now probiotic pills on the market as well which I've used on cats after antibiotic treatment which may work better in a snake. For both of my animals with the issue, I fed them yogurt several times a week. For a snake, I would assume it would just need to be fed when the snake was fed.
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Thank you! I had a small supply of nutribac on hand and have been rolling her meals in it. Nutribac is a probiotic and I'm wondering if that has been helping her. 16 gram feeders is the largest feeders I have been hitting her with in a long time. I don't know how I feel about hitting her with a yogurt, but in reality I would try anything.

Knock on wood, I have yet to see this, or symptoms of this in any other snake I have in my collection. Granted, I separated Oracle from every other member of my collection as soon as she started showing symptoms. She is treated with the ut most care and strict quarantine and sterilization measures are taken. I have far too many snakes to take a chance and risk having this spread, if it is contagious. How long she has been ill, I'm beginning to doubt that and I'm starting to think that it may be something congenital, environmental, or an allergy. Doesn't mean I'm going to take a chance and reintroduce her back to the rack. She would have to be well and symptom free for a good long time before I would even consider it.

Ah well, my vet is on-call 24-7 for emergencies. If I feel that there is a chance I can fix her if she took a turn for the worse, I can make a call. I'm not giving up on her, but at the same time, I'm not going to break my family. I love her like I love all my pets and with that said, I take very good care of all of them.

Wayne
 
From what I've read, you've done a great job with her. A lot of people would have given up by now. As for the yogurt, I wouldn't give it without a vet's ok. Leopard geckos and cats both do alright with processing lactose but in some animals it would make it worse. I also have to agree that it's not contagious but it's good not to take the risk. Does the Nutribac contain acidophilus cultures? I wasn't able to find anything on their website about it though there are both veterinarian prescribed and over the counter acidophilus mixtures for reptiles that do not contain lactose.
 
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