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Issues with breeding and feeding

D

dakota11

New member
I have bred Netherland dwarf rabbits, hamsters, gerbils and other rodents and sold to pet stores in the past which brings me to my current lil dilemma. Now since I can not find anything smaller than a large fuzzy within a 2 hr range of here I had this bright idea and I admittedly miss breeding and producing colors in rodents what a perfect excuse. So I talked to 2 of the pet stores in town and made an agreement with them to sell the young mice that I don't use for feeding my snakes both fancy and white. All sounds perfect right?! well now the probem I have a 2 day old litter and Im going to have to get over my poor baby mice thing by tomorrow as the time has come. I didnt think it was going to be an issue. what didnt help is that she was further along than I thought so I had to move her from a wire cage to a bin the day after she had the cute tiny babies. I thought for sure they would have been eaten by her after that but luckly she is an awesome mother. (did I mentune she is very friendly).
Now another lil situation the fancy mice that are going to be solely for the pet store. I have a black and white male dutch (from the net they are known as being somewhat aggressive) Anyways I had him next to two fancy females for a couple days then yesterday introduced them and He attacked one of the 2 females. She is no question about it a female. So much for harem breeding that I planned on doing.
NOw the questions do you eventually accept that your snakes have to eat and it no longer bothers you I feel like Im going to be a mouse murderer.
WHats the max age for freezing pinkeys creating the least amount of pain and suffering?
Also whats with the male? btw no other male mice here.
btw once the snakes can eat hoppers Ill most likely be breeding and selling my fancy young to the store no longer breeding white and getting frozen from the store (she is a friend and told me I wont have the heart to kill hoppers). But at this point I havent a choice with the whole pinky thing Ive done to much long driving already with the price of gas up here. I guess I need to just get over it. sorry for the long bla bla bla Im just having emotional issues right now I guess. I do have a young pair of soft furs that are buggers but they are to big to feed:headbang:
 
I never like to freeze any mice to kill them, but it is generally believed that they can be more quickly killed by freezing as long as they have no fur. Once they start growing fur, it's more humane to use CO2 or cervical dislocation.
 
it gets a lot easier with time, i have to admit the first mouse i ever killed brought me to tears, but now i have done it so many times, you realise that when they are born, they will just be snake food, they still get looked after really well, but i dont interact with them. and then the day comes, and they are culled, it doesnt bother me anymore, i would prefer not to kill them, but its something that has to be done.

as for freezing, personally if its under 5 days i would freeze it, anything over, i would use C02, or a pen on the back of the neck.

lee
 
my first litter of pinks I had to freeze I couldnt bring myself to put them in the freezer I had to get my other half to do it.

I know need to kill some of the older mice as well can you give me tips on the co2 way as upto now I have only frozse the pinkies.
 
I am and never will be brought to tears by rodents, but I can see why you would. I would say if you want a death that you have to pay for, or pay for the supplies to do it, go with C02. I could see why you would use C02, but its way more budget friendly if you use the freezer or the wall.(for BIG rats) My brother in law used to keep rats and mice for his snakes, and he had more than a few blood marks on the walls from the huge rats for his big sand boa. otherwise, (I have seen him do this and I have done it myself when he gave me live little ones in a cup for my snakes) he would put them in a plastic bag, make sure that it didn't have much or any air in it, and into the freezer it went. I respect those who use CO2 and care for rats and mice. If you have had them two long, you could get attached to them. I just think that other methods are more cost-efective. What my work for me, may not work for you. Its all about prefrence.
 
Cornsnake124 said:
I am and never will be brought to tears by rodents, but I can see why you would. I would say if you want a death that you have to pay for, or pay for the supplies to do it, go with C02. I could see why you would use C02, but its way more budget friendly if you use the freezer or the wall.(for BIG rats) My brother in law used to keep rats and mice for his snakes, and he had more than a few blood marks on the walls from the huge rats for his big sand boa. otherwise, (I have seen him do this and I have done it myself when he gave me live little ones in a cup for my snakes) he would put them in a plastic bag, make sure that it didn't have much or any air in it, and into the freezer it went. I respect those who use CO2 and care for rats and mice. If you have had them two long, you could get attached to them. I just think that other methods are more cost-efective. What my work for me, may not work for you. Its all about prefrence.
Click to expand...

"A death that you have to pay for"???
Ugh. Being decent and humane sometimes carries a monetary price.
Practicing cruelty to animals (Um, YEAH, throwing intelligent conscious rats up against a wall IS cruelty to animals), because it's "cost effective" carries a price too. At least I pray it does. Eternally.

Nanci hun, how would you feel towards someone who throws pigeons against a wall because it's "cost-effective"?
Anyone else...what about kittens? Puppies?
Rats are AT LEAST as smart as puppies OR kittens. Being a disgusting cruel inhumane monster is the same, no matter which species is brutalized. All to save a few bucks.
What an absolutely disgusting "human being".
 
starsevol said:
"A death that you have to pay for"???
Ugh. Being decent and humane sometimes carries a monetary price.
Practicing cruelty to animals (Um, YEAH, throwing intelligent conscious rats up against a wall IS cruelty to animals), because it's "cost effective" carries a price too. At least I pray it does. Eternally.

Nanci hun, how would you feel towards someone who throws pigeons against a wall because it's "cost-effective"?
Anyone else...what about kittens? Puppies?
Rats are AT LEAST as smart as puppies OR kittens. Being a disgusting cruel inhumane monster is the same, no matter which species is brutalized. All to save a few bucks.
What an absolutely disgusting "human being".
Click to expand...

I AGREE 100%!!! Couldn't have said it better!
 
There is no need for even the cheapest of people to kill in such a way.
I use cervical dislocation for hoppers and bigger. I let the mouse walk forwards on a surface it can grip, place a pencil firmly at the base of its skull, and pull sharply on the tail.
Fuzzies have very thin skulls, so a swift 'flick' at the back of the heads kills them almost instantly.
 
It is NOT "all about preference". That's a terrible attitude. We have a responsibility if we breed rodents to euthanize them in the most humane way possible. Just tossing them in a freezer to slowly die from freezing and suffocation is a terrible way to kill them. It's people like that, that give the rest of us snake keepers a bad reputation.

CO2 is not that expensive in the long run. An initial cost of $40-$50 or so and then a few dollars yearly for co2 refills. If you are too cheap for that then you should not be breeding rodents. Buy them pre-killed.

:eatsmiley
 
yes I think I will go along with the co2 it sounds the easiest I am not into throwing them against a wall, and have not got the bottle to do it with a pen either will get my other half to build a chamber, if anyone has any pics that would be a great help.
 
brilliant thanks for that I will get the better half on the case on building one my diy skills are next to useless.
 
Those instructions are a bit more complicated than necessary. Basically all you need is the CO2 source (20 oz paintball refillable tank in my case), some kind of valve and tubing (paintball remote coil) and the actual chamber. I use a 1 gallon or so size large plastic storage tub with a tight sealing top.

Attach the quick release end of the remote coil to the tub (melted a hole and sealed with silicone on mine), and attach a piece of plastic tubing to the top for an exhaust. When I use it I put the exhaust tubing in a glass of water so it releases air and co2 but doesn't allow oxygen back in.

You could also use a much larger CO2 tank such as what is used for soda machines or home brewing. Some places will rent the CO2 fairly cheap, and a 20 lb or more tank should last a LONG time, well over a year of regular use.
 
Well the time came to have to feed not fun! Before I decided to breed the mice I had a talk with the pet store that I deal with she will be buying the excess mice from me and Im thinking when I have to start feeding hoppers that Ill be getting them from her. Great I breed fancy mice sell to pet store and buy frozen ones for my snake makes lots of sense NOT but I can see it already. Time will tell I didnt think I would be getting this far but one thing I know for certain and this is just personal preference no offense to anyone else but my snakes will never see a rat this is why I dont have a larger species I just couldn't do that. I did however get a pair of asf I had the hopes that they would be more rat like and pets but hyper fast and jumpy to say the least. they are just weanlings though.
 
starsevol said:
"A death that you have to pay for"???
Ugh. Being decent and humane sometimes carries a monetary price.
Practicing cruelty to animals (Um, YEAH, throwing intelligent conscious rats up against a wall IS cruelty to animals), because it's "cost effective" carries a price too. At least I pray it does. Eternally.

Nanci hun, how would you feel towards someone who throws pigeons against a wall because it's "cost-effective"?
Anyone else...what about kittens? Puppies?
Rats are AT LEAST as smart as puppies OR kittens. Being a disgusting cruel inhumane monster is the same, no matter which species is brutalized. All to save a few bucks.
What an absolutely disgusting "human being".
Click to expand...

I LOVE this forum, but its people like this that really make me want to get out if here all together. I think that calling me a disgusting human being was a little over the line. Actualy, MORE than a little. The one thing that you types of people will never do to me is make me worry what you think. I JUST DON'T CARE. I've been called things before that were worse than this. And have I changed one little bit because of them? NO. In this case I am suprised how many people actualy came out and called me names, told me to get help for my head, and pretty much waged a personal attack. I gave atvise for someone looking for it, made sure that I wouldn't insult anyone or make them mad, and what do people do? They call me names anyway. Shame.:angry01:
 
I didnt mean to cause a whole ordeal here I mean Im having trouble with the whole mice killing thing and I went from new snake one of which I was given the info that she hadnt ate for a long time before I got her and both snakes picky eaters well I cant go getting frozen pinkys daily$$ plus above I mentuned about the size issue of the frozen pet store ones for her to not want to eat them so this is the main reason I got mice ok call it cheap convenient or whatever but I thought she was going to be an issue to feed I also thought I could feed mice no problem since I didnt like mice before I had any (now that has changed) but If there was a bug of any sort It would be killed in an instant (I dont like bugs). Anyways I do appreciate the advice and most opinions but seriously I had no intention of posting something that could turn into a hate thread. BTW Im going to try to turn this thread positive since they have been here I have to say neither one have refused a meal yet!!!!yipii I dont know what Im doing right but it must be something.
 
cornsnake124, I believe you are now 15 ? I hope you don't mind me saying so ,but it sounds like you may have had a "hard" life. I'm a teacher and my students have been gang-bangers, murderers etc.. so I know what that can do to someone's outlook on life. The people on this site, for the most part place a higher value on the lives of ALL animals, much more than most "normal" people, Jeez, c'mon I mean we like snakes...not many people do and consider the only good snake a dead one!
So the responses you got we're pretty harsh and heartfelt. While I don't necessarily agree that that was the right approach, this is to be expected here. Instead of calling you a name I would like for you to reconsider your approach and or view to killing rodents. Try to think of yourself in their shoes, or paws as it were. Killing any animal should be done with the most respect and humanity ( humane, notice the word human in there)that we can, irregardless of price, convenience or how uncomfortable it may be to some of us. This responsibility is a part of the responsibility that we all share when taking control over the life of another living creature.
I hope that you would at least consider some of what I've said and move forward from there...best of luck with your snakes. Kyle
 
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Cornsnake124 said:
I LOVE this forum, but its people like this that really make me want to get out if here all together. I think that calling me a disgusting human being was a little over the line. Actualy, MORE than a little. The one thing that you types of people will never do to me is make me worry what you think. I JUST DON'T CARE. I've been called things before that were worse than this. And have I changed one little bit because of them? NO. In this case I am suprised how many people actualy came out and called me names, told me to get help for my head, and pretty much waged a personal attack. I gave atvise for someone looking for it, made sure that I wouldn't insult anyone or make them mad, and what do people do? They call me names anyway. Shame.:angry01:
Click to expand...

What you do so casually is called "animal abuse".
That makes YOU an "animal abuser".

You advising another person to torture mice to death to save money was something only a disgusting human being would do. Would you do it to a kitten or a puppy?? If not, why not? All are intelligent conscious animals capable of feeling fear and pain and suffering greatly. People who are not monsters care about that. You don't.

Animal abusers are right there with pedophiles, in my book. Both prey on something innocent, smaller and weaker than themselves and don't care about the suffering they cause. The reasons they do it vary, but it's really all the same. No one ever taught them basic compassion. If you really are only 15, I think your parents should step up to the plate and get you some help.

That said, I have the utmost respect for people who breed their own food and euthanize HUMANELY. It's something I can't do, and because they can I can have animals in my life I wouldn't have otherwise. I owe them many thanks.
 
I can't imagine any justification for such an overly dramatic way of killing mice as throwing them against a wall. They're mice, not some dangerous unhandleable creature.
 
I'm going to un-subscribe now. This has gone out of hand. I just can't belive how many people in this great forum would set out on such an insulting personal attack. At least forked tounge didn't go out on a person al attack. And to that post, no, I don't have a bad life.
 
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