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Live Feeding

HaisseM said:
I have to respond on vegan tip:



Vegans believe all things are created equal for the most part and will not partake in the destruction of one animal for another. So when I said animals are not on the same level as humans, vegans would disagree. Thats where I pulled that out of.
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Uh I'm not stupid I know what a Vegan is, what I can't understand is why you think that feeling 100% responsible for providing the best possible care for another life is something to look down upon, because clearly you were using the concept of a vegan life style as something to be scoffed at.
 
Corny Noob said:
Uh I'm not stupid I know what a Vegan is, what I can't understand is why you think that feeling 100% responsible for providing the best possible care for another life is something to look down upon, because clearly you were using the concept of a vegan life style as something to be scoffed at.
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Huh? Let me reread this again....I don't remember saying using the best possible care for another life is something to look down upon? Did I? And how did I scoff at Vegans? Maybe I don't understand the meaning of your words, but I think I addressed your points already.
 
Roy Munson said:
Well, I'll admit that I'm relying on second-hand information. I haven't seen any studies on rodents. I'll also admit that I dont understand WHY the nutritional value decreases. Freezing ruptures cell walls which compromises nutritional values. At the same time, it INCREASES digestibility. I've spoken with Edna Queen at The Mouse Factory about how long her vaccuum-sealed product can last if kept frozen. She discouraged me from buying smaller prey items (pinks and fuzzies) in quantities that wouldn't be used within six months due to their increased susceptibility to freezer-burn and the negative effects of freezer-burn on nutritional value. If I come across more detailed info, I'll let you know. :)
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Thanks for taking the time to answer back, Roy. I heard the same guidelines as far as the pinkies and adults from a guy at Rodent Pro. I guess that is the industry standard.
 
HaisseM said:
Huh? Let me reread this again....I don't remember saying using the best possible care for another life is something to look down upon? Did I? And how did I scoff at Vegans? Maybe I don't understand the meaning of your words, but I think I addressed your points already.
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It looks as though Jenn has left the building. But I can tell you, I understand exactly what she is saying. It's the impression you make.
 
starsevol said:
It looks as though Jenn has left the building. But I can tell you, I understand exactly what she is saying. It's the impression you make.
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Seems to me like people are trying to dig deeper into the meaning then what I presented. I'm pretty simple and say what I mean without trying to do a play on words. So this impression you talk about seems more like ill feelings because I dont share your point of view
 
HaisseM said:
Seems to me like people are trying to dig deeper into the meaning then what I presented. I'm pretty simple and say what I mean without trying to do a play on words. So this impression you talk about seems more like ill feelings because I dont share your point of view
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It's not really like that. It is that 10 people will tell you that something is a bad idea, and you shrug it off. They tell you about risks to your animals, and you come right out and say that risks are a part of life, and you choose not to minimize the risks to creatures who depend on YOU to do what's best for them. This attitude is a real turn-off. I have only been doing this for 11 years, not half as long as many of these people. Compared to them I know nothing. You however seem to think that you know more than most, and give all kinds of advice that frankly, makes people cringe. It's not really about point of view, its more about right and wrong.
 
starsevol said:
It's not really like that. It is that 10 people will tell you that something is a bad idea, and you shrug it off. They tell you about risks to your animals, and you come right out and say that risks are a part of life, and you choose not to minimize the risks to creatures who depend on YOU to do what's best for them. This attitude is a real turn-off. I have only been doing this for 11 years, not half as long as many of these people. Compared to them I know nothing. You however seem to think that you know more than most, and give all kinds of advice that frankly, makes people cringe. It's not really about point of view, its more about right and wrong.
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Lets try this again.... I never said I know more than people on here about corn snakes... My thought process works like this. I understand some of the risk in doing things, but I also understand risk are apart of life and don't live my life in fear, so yes if you are part of my circle of friends then at times you life will be "in danger" do I really think I put people life in danger NO, but for the sake of discussion I'm hoping you can understand my point.

Do you speed with your children in the car? Do you force your kids to put their set-belt on at ALL TIMES? Do you speed at all? Do you ever overtake someone when you know you shouldn't? By getting in a car you're taking risk, both for yourself and for others.... ACCEPT IT - I HAVE

With that said... Like i have said a million times (a point you seem to ignore every single time) I don't think what I do is for everyone. Feeding live to my snakes, should be done with caution.... Nowhere am I saying its the only way to go. As far as co-habing since i know you'll bring it up. yes I realize their are risk but AGAIN, anything can be done if you have the right CONDITIONS... ITS NOT FOR EVERYONE and nowhere along the line do I even state everyone should Co-hab.

If someone ask a question about feeding live or co-habing, instead of saying ... NO NEVER DO THAT... SHAME ON YOU... YOUR A HORRIBLE PERSON...

I say, if you're going to do that then here are some precautions you should take.

Lets understand something... I understand how people think and I'm honest with myself.. I know people will go against what others say just because well to be honest they don't care as much as you (ITS THE TRUTH) and because of that, they should be at least given the most amount of education to help ensure their snake is going to be OK...

At this point if you can't understand the points i'm making I don't know how to make it any clearer for you.
 
HaisseM said:
Lets try this again.... I never said I know more than people on here about corn snakes... My thought process works like this. I understand some of the risk in doing things, but I also understand risk are apart of life and don't live my life in fear, so yes if you are part of my circle of friends then at times you life will be "in danger" do I really think I put people life in danger NO, but for the sake of discussion I'm hoping you can understand my point.

Do you speed with your children in the car? Do you force your kids to put their set-belt on at ALL TIMES? Do you speed at all? Do you ever overtake someone when you know you shouldn't? By getting in a car you're taking risk, both for yourself and for others.... ACCEPT IT - I HAVE


That's the thing. You say you understand there are risks involved in doing some things. If those risks only involved YOU, I think we would understand. But those risks you take do NOT involve you, they involve the lives of snakes you call your "babies". THAT is what is a turn-off. "Living your life in fear" is not the same as minimizing risks to animals you are SUPPOSED to care about.

I don't have kids myself. But if I did you bet your sweet bippy that I would NEVER speed with them in the car, and they would wear seatbelts every second that car was in motion. It's state law.
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starsevol said:
That's the thing. You say you understand there are risks involved in doing some things. If those risks only involved YOU, I think we would understand. But those risks you take do NOT involve you, they involve the lives of snakes you call your "babies". THAT is what is a turn-off. "Living your life in fear" is not the same as minimizing risks to animals you are SUPPOSED to care about.

I don't have kids myself. But if I did you bet your sweet bippy that I would NEVER speed with them in the car, and they would wear seatbelts every second that car was in motion. It's state law.
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REREAD MY RISK... Even if you speed with your children in the car or speed at all you're putting others at risk... But then again you don't speed, you always wear your seat belt and you do nothing to endanger anyone else.....
 
If you are caught risking the health and well-being of your children, they get taken away from you.

I am a RESPONSIBLE person. NO, I don't speed. NO, I don't go around endangering other people. I don't break the law. You are only rationalizing bad behavoir, and there is no excuse for it.

Refusing to do something as easy as seperately housing snakes because "life has risks"...is the height of not only irresponsibility, but arrogance.
 
starsevol said:
If you are caught risking the health and well-being of your children, they get taken away from you.

I am a RESPONSIBLE person. NO, I don't speed. NO, I don't go around endangering other people. I don't break the law. You are only rationalizing bad behavoir, and there is no excuse for it.

Refusing to do something as easy as seperately housing snakes because "life has risks"...is the height of not only irresponsibility, but arrogance.
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I was talking to my coworker about this and we finally come to a solid understand.

We decided that some people are extremist and others prefer Pacifism

The key is recognizing which one you are and which one the person you're fighting with is, otherwise you're debate will just go around and around
 
starsevol said:
And what do my driving habits have to do with making excuses for bad behavior?
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Wow you have to be the most law abiding person I have ever meet. Not only are you in sync with nature and your humane ways, but you are always the perfect role model for all our youth. You don't break the law, or anything that would endanger ANYONE, and you are in touch with nature. I can only strive to be better like you..

Now that I got that off my chest. I realize with you these arguments aren't about wrong or right, they are about one's beliefs and making sure I understand that I am wrong and you are right.

While i'm not afraid to argue a point with someone, sometimes I had to realize the arguement/discussion/disaggrement will never go anywhere, not because the other person isn't intelligent, but because the other person doesn't want to understand.... I truly believe this is one of those times.
 
Whoa...I just got repped by a great member on here. Basically said I should put you on my ignore list and called you a name.

I'm thinking it's a good plan :)
 
This is how your post came across "lol and unles your a vegan you wouldn't put animals in high regard m I rite?"

Just so you understand where I'm coming from, and again I'm not even a vegan.
 
HaisseM said:
Do you speed with your children in the car? Do you force your kids to put their set-belt on at ALL TIMES? Do you speed at all? Do you ever overtake someone when you know you shouldn't? By getting in a car you're taking risk, both for yourself and for others.... ACCEPT IT - I HAVE
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:-offtopic Someone once took three of my four grand-daughters for a ride with that attitude, "kind of sounds to me like $hi+ happens". Well on that day it did one of my grand-daughters was killed on the spot and one was in a coma for a very long time and although 13 now will never have the mental abilities above a second grader. So you can risk all you want but even you say it not just you at risk. The point is how much are YOU willing to risk.

As far as this debate since I feed both f/t and fresh killed. I feed pinkies and fuzzies live. So I fall on all sides of the debate, but I would never put my snakes at risk. As far as those who won't eat f/t rat pups are big enough.
 
Corny Noob said:
This is how your post came across "lol and unles your a vegan you wouldn't put animals in high regard m I rite?"

Just so you understand where I'm coming from, and again I'm not even a vegan.
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No, I meant, unless you're a vegan the whole arguement about humans and animals on the same level doens't relate, since most people eat animals, etc. Nothing more nothing less.

My extra part was even the vegan argument doesn't always hold true for Vegans.
 
susang said:
:-offtopic Someone once took three of my four grand-daughters for a ride with that attitude, "kind of sounds to me like $hi+ happens". Well on that day it did one of my grand-daughters was killed on the spot and one was in a coma for a very long time and although 13 now will never have the mental abilities above a second grader. So you can risk all you want but even you say it not just you at risk. The point is how much are YOU willing to risk.

As far as this debate since I feed both f/t and fresh killed. I feed pinkies and fuzzies live. So I fall on all sides of the debate, but I would never put my snakes at risk. As far as those who won't eat f/t rat pups are big enough.
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I'm sorry to hear about your family, I hope you realize what I'm saying and not thinking i take it to that extent. My point was nobody is always risk free and at times we put others at risk at well (knowningly), while it may not always be an acceptable part of life, it is apart of life
 
I think the only thing that is clear at this point is HaisseM just likes to argue for the sake of it. Many of the points are such stretches and barely sensible that's the only explanation I can think of. I say just ignore and the boredom will drive it somewhere else.
 
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