Lots of Questions Thermometer/tape/hygiene/reptile show

[Dinah]

As many of you might know (or maybe not), we are going to be getting our first snake in about 6 weeks maybe longer depending on what ends up being available. We have read a couple corn snake books and have really been trying to prepare in advance in hopes that this preparation will you know keep us from messing up to badly. I have a couple of last minute miscellaneous questions, and I have read around the site quite a bit so I am confident that on this site I will be able to get some great answers. So here goes

Thermometers part A
I have a temperature gun and I also have some cheap gauges and we have a thermostat for our UTH. I got the gauges because I want this to be a learning experience for my daughter and so she is responsible for checking the temps in the morning and evening and I want her to have to use gauges rather than a digital display. I know that the gauges are less than ideal because they do not have a probe, but again they are mostly for the learning to read gauges experience. I also have a temp gun, and that is where I plan to get my most accurate readings from but I was planning to use it to double check her measurements morning and evening at first and then in the future we have some other ideas (I will get to these in a minute).

So my question is will a temp gun and the gauges be enough? I know a lot of ya'll use temp guns is that your main temperature reading source? Also when I use a temp gun am I supposed to check the surface of the substrate or am I supposed to dig and check the glass temp at the bottom? Or is that why I have a thermostat for the glass temp at the bottom?

Thermometers part B
We would like to find some sort of thermometers that will connect via USB or even wirelessly to our computer. MY husband has our computers set up so that if temperatures at the CPU get outside a certain range the computers will email us, and we would eventually like to do the same thing for our snake tank. Not only would we be alerted if the temp where outside of the proper range, but also I would be able to print out of all the temps to a vet if there was a problem. Has anyone ever seen and thermometers for snake cages that are like this? My husband can do programming, so I don't need one that already emails me, he can set that up himself but I would need one that had some sort of connectivity like USB.

Tape
When connecting the thermostat wire and probe in the tank, I have read that you should tape the probe to the bottom over the UTH, first is that the right placement taped to the bottom to get the glass temp? Second what kind of tape should I use? I am worried about the tape coming loose and sticking to the snake and hurting him/her. So do I use something like masking tape so that way it isn't really dangerously sticky or what?

Hygiene
So this will be our first caged animal and while I know obviously after handling a pet, *any* pet you should wash your hands, but unlike our dog or cats who just hop up and sit on us handling our snake is the sort of thing where we plan to do it ahead of time, so I was wondering should we make hand washing part of the before handling process as well as the after part? I was wondering about soap residue or scents affecting the snake, also in the same line of question what about the hand sanitizing products like purell etc are they safe to snakes or harmful?

Reptile show
Last but not least we are hoping to find a snake at Repticon because it is closest to us, although we have had offers from other people if in case repticon doesn't have the right snake for us. So I wonder how this sort of show works, should I bring cash or will they be set up to take debit/credit cards and/or checks there? Also when I get there and I am talking to them, are they going to say 'No way lady I would never let you leave with one of my snakes you totally don't know what you are doing and your kids are way to little.'? Now my kids are gentle and responsible, and well behaved (especially in public) so I don't foresee them acting up in front of a stranger and once we get our snake home, they are still gentle and my husband and I both get that the buck stops with us in terms of snake care if my daughter doesn't follow through with her commitment. But I am nervous that I could get a response like that because I was turned down by a dog rescue because my kids where to little and I have had dogs most of my life and I live on 10 fenced acres and I had recommendations from my vet. So is there like some sort of secret handshake or something that lets people know that really I have done my research and I am not being irresponsible, or is that just supposed to be evident when I talk with them and ask intelligent questions, I do have a list of questions I want answered about the snake before I would consider buying it.

Anyways those are my questions thanks for taking the time to read and any advice ya'll have is very much appreciated.

 

[Emily1188]

Hi Dinah!

Thermometers Part A
To be honest, those gauges are often so inaccurate I doubt that it will teach your daughter anything. I have an old one in a tank that reads 75 degrees... no matter what... heh. So it depends on what you want more - for her to read the gauges, or be more involved with the snake's care. If you want her to be responsible for true temperature monitoring, get a digital thermometer with probe.

Thermometer Part B
No idea, sorry. Sounds cool though.

Tape
Many people use aquarium sealant to faster probes permanently in the correct spot. Personally, my probe has a built in suction cup that I use to keep it in place. You are right in thinking that tape is not the best idea; tape and snakes don't mix, and usually the tape wins.

Hygiene
As far as I can tell, hand sanitizer is fine, just be sure to let it fully evaporate before handling, and use scentless stuff. Make sure the alcohol smell is gone. At the last show I went to, I saw a large scale breeder use some purelle before handling a very upper scale morph hatchling - if it was harmful, I doubt he would have done that. Honestly, I don't wash my hands before handling the snakes unless I have some compelling reason to. Good reasons include avoiding transferring pathogens betweens animals, removing smelly stuff that snakes are sensitive to, etc.

Reptile Show
Thankfully, most snake breeders are not like dog rescues (insert GIANT eyeroll - don't get me started), so you should be fine. Many breeders won't sell to minors, but with you (the parent) right there, you should not have a problem.

The breeder should be able to tell you the sex of the snake, around when it was hatched, and how many times it has eaten. This is very important - you do not want your first snake to be a problem feeder. Most responsible breeders will not let a hatchling leave before it has eaten f/t willingly anywhere from 3-5 times.

Also, I have another suggestion, since you are trying to teach your daughter about snake care. Check out www.iherp.com. You can keep records of when your snake eats, sheds, poops, and when you clean the tank, change water, etc, all for free. I would suggest setting up an account and helping her enter all the data for the snake.

Hope that helps!
Hope that helps!

 

[wade]

WOW Dinah, all good questions!! I try to answer them.

The temperature you want to measure is the temperature that the snake is experiencing. That seems like it should go without saying but it is important. Put your dial type thermometers on the floor of the cage. With the temp gun you need to understand that it measures surface temperatures. You will find a wide variation between the top of the substrate and lower down into the substrate. Lower down is what you will want to see. The same answer works for the thermostat probe. You want to measure the hottest temperature the snake my find. That will be under the substrate right over the heater. The snake can move away from the hot end to get cooler as it chooses for itself.

Tape is a real problem with snakes. Even masking tape. It seems to stick better to them than anything else. So first off use tape very sparingly. Some people will even say never, but I don’t go to that extreme. What ever you use you want to make sure it sticks very well to the glass and will not be effected by the heat and come loose. The number one best choice would be foil tape. You can get it a Home Depot and it is made to be used with heating ducts. It stick very well and will mold itself around the probe and the glass. I think second choice might be electricians tape. Which ever one you choose be sure to rub it down really good so all the corners are stuck to the glass.

I think you might be over thinking the hygiene part. Soap residue on your hands is not a real concern unless it is an extreme amount. Same might be true for lotions. When have guests handle my snakes I always give them a squirt of hand sanitizer afterward. I’ll be honest, I don’t wash after every handling. There is a remote possibility of getting salmonella from snakes. I have never actually heard of anyone getting sick from snakes. My wife and I have handled snakes every day for the last 25 or 30 years. But it is possible.

Bring cash to the snake show. Some of the venders will take credit cards but most won’t. Ask lots of questions. If they will let you handle the snake. You won’t have any problem. Most venders are very eager to be helpful and friendly. If they are not, don’t buy from them. You want to buy from someone who will be very helpful and you can call next week and next month when you think of more questions.

 

[Emily1188]

When have guests handle my snakes I always give them a squirt of hand sanitizer afterward. I’ll be honest, I don’t wash after every handling.

Exact same here... .... And this whole time I thought I was being naughty.

 

[Tavia]

Some of the reasons to wash your hands before holding a snake are, sometimes they will react to smells on your hands, either something that smells like lunch or a predator & will sometimes bite you because of it. I have to say I don't usually wash my hands before holding one of my snakes & have never had that problem. A more important reason, IMHO, is if you have any plans at all to get another reptile, it might be a good idea to get everyone used to washing before handling now, so it is easier to remember when you get a new reptile & it is in quarantine.

 

[Buzzard]

I do not want to sound naughty either. But you maybe over thinking a lot of your questions. Temp. is important, a hot spot and a cool spot. but you dont have to go all fancy with a ton of gear, probes and temp guns. (however it is nice). Here is how I set my temp in my cages. I have a dimmer $14-15 bucks from Lowes. I place a themometer on the hot area inside the cage to get it right. I then mark the spot on the dimmer.(after all the cages are set in the range, I have 3 cages/tubs per dimmer). I check them about once a week. (usaully will only have to check one of the cages per dimmer, I rotate which tube gets tested).

Tape is a big NO NO for me. When I first started out I had a snake get stuck on tape. It really hurt my feelings having to remove it. He is fine now.

As far as hand washing. Residue is not an issue unless you been handling bleach or some sort of acid based product. Washing before and after is always a healthy habit.

Cash for the shows. Take hand sanitizer to the show as well. Most vendors will have it but it is best to sanitize before and after any critter you might handle. Plus the vendor will thank you. If your worried about the secret hand shake them dont. It is always best to do exactly what you have done. You have done your homework, and you have put time into it. The best thing you can do is to make sure you ask all the questions you can to the vendor. When you go to the shows, you will see snakes priced totally different at each table. Ask why? It maybe wise to remember what market each vendor comes from. Example The Birmingham show (3 hours to the north) always has a ton of cornsnakes. A vendor from that area might be 5-10 bucks cheaper or he might be selling you a nonfeeder. Without the proper questioning you would not be able to tell.

 

[Dinah]

Wow thank ya'll for all the answers and sorry for not getting back to you right away we spent most of the day at the zoo. It was really cool because the King Cobra had just shed so there was a really long cobra shed in his tank. Anyways, I am going to see if I can find aquarium glue ( I didnt know there was such a thing) or the foil heat tape for the thermostat. As for the hand washing I figure since I have kids who put their hands in their mouths the hand washing is pretty important, but I wasn't sure so much about the before handling wash. Although with kids my thought was it is probably better not to expose the poor snake to who know what the kids have touched. We use mild hand soap anyways but I wanted to check, for all I know it could have been terrible for snakes.

As for the thermometers we plan on upgrading my daughter to being able to use some digital thermometers once she has mastered the art of gauge reading (probably in a few months she is a fast learner), but if once we set it up the gauges don't move (or if they are horribly wrong based on what the temp gun says) I have no problems running to petco real fast to pick up some basic digital thermometers I have seen them there for like 10 bucks. I want my kids to learn that pets take daily work, I believe it sets the standard for how they will treat their pets in the future and I think that by internalizing that lesson when they are young it will help her be a responsible pet owner in the long run. So while she is lucky because the pet she has picked doesn't need several walks per day or an hour of grooming a week, I want her to have to do more than just change water. She will also be in charge or at least in charge with help of all of the chores like cage cleaning, feeding, etc. I really want her to have to do some work everyday, so that is a big part of why she has to check the temps everyday.

Anyways thank ya'll for taking time to answer all of my millions of questions and if anyone ever happens to see thermometers that hook up to a computer please let me know. My husband would love to set up a system that monitors it like that. He is an Admin by profession so his idea of fun is writing programs and hooking things up so that they can be automated using technology.

 

[jlindp]

Everyone's pretty well answered you questions...but I'd just like to add my two cents for taping the probe. I actually have my three thermostat probes taped on the OUTSIDE of the tank, flush against the UTHs. I then set my thermostat a little below the temperature I want and have found it to be perfect in regulating temps at 82-84 degrees...in ALL five of my tanks. I hated having the probe inside because it would cause the newspaper to buckle up, allowing my hatchlings to get right on the glass. Even with a thermostat, I didn't like that. They can still burrow, but they don't get under the newspaper any longer.

 

[Dinah]

Just to be clear you put the UTH, then the probe, (both on the outside) then the tank bottom. Or do you go probe, UTH (both on the outside) then the tank bottom. My daughter is getting the last of the stuff she needs for Christmas and we plan to set the tank up and make sure we have it under control before we get our snake, so I am open to trying it out in different ways to see what worked best before I glue anything down.

 

[wade]

You want to put the probe where it can measure the temperature that the snake will be experiencing. That would be in the tank under the substrate. Nobody cares what the temperature outside the tank is.

 

[jlindp]

My UTH is on the bottom of my glass tanks, then my probes are taped down on the UTH, on the outside. My temperatures INSIDE the tank are 85 degrees on the glass and 82 degrees on the very top of the substrate -- according to my heat gun. Like I said, taping the probe to the UTH outside the tank has worked well for me and I like the setup better, but if you feel more confident putting it inside the tank, on the glass, then by all means, please do so. :}

 

[bubba6]

the analog gauges read "ambiant air temps" which doesn't really matter. use a probe thermometer on the inside of the tank, on the glass, in the middle of the UTH right next to the thermostat probe. this will give you a very accurate reading of the temp. the snake will be experiencing. Also I agree to use aquarium silicone to keep the probes in place. good luck!