Medical Marijuana - Welcome to the club Washington DC

[tyflier]

I think cigarettes, alcohol, and pot should be illegal for recreational use.

So...you think prohibition across the board is the way to go? Do you think that will be successful in getting all illegal drugs out of America, or do you think it will create a multi-trillion dollar per year criminal underworld that thrives in crime, violence, and easy money? I know where money is...

There ARE medical uses for marijuana, and it can be used safely in moderation and when it's actually being used to TREAT something that CAN'T be treated by another medication. There are situations were another drug is SAFER to use the pot.

Name one practical medical application that marijuana can successfully ease that is done better and safer by a different federally controlled drug.

An herb can be a drug. I don't see why people keep saying that, emphasizing the fact that it's an HERB. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's NOT dangerous. Look at all of the poisonous plants for Christ's sake.

Just because it has minor psychotropic effects does not mean that it IS dangerous. Please produce one unbiased study that shows actual scientific data indicating the amount of permanant damage caused by habitual marijuana use.

You DO alter marijuana when you want to smoke it, you dry it out. That is a small moderation, but STILL a moderation. And just because it's not the worst drug in the world doesn't mean it's not HARMFUL.

Big difference between drying out a plant to make it burn, and chemically extracting and altering the components within the plant to create a synthetic drug. You do not alter the chemical structure of the plant before you can use it. It does not need to be synthesized, compounded, extracted, modified, altered, or created. You grow, pick, and smoke.

Besides all of that, it makes stronger fibers for rope, clothing, canvases, tarps, tents, shoes, upholstery, and just about any other fabric you can think of. It grows 10 times faster than trees, and has a much heavier pulp which allows for more paper to be made from smaller farms. The seed of the plant is second only to the soybean in the amount of protein available. It can be used as a "bumper crop" in agriculture to replenish depleted nutrients from food crops. It's a fantastic AND efficient heat fuel. It grows almost everywhere in the world naturally, in one form or another, and can thriive in a tremendous variety of climates. And we haven't really even begun to scratch the surface of it's non-medicinal commercial applications.

The only "problem" with marijuana is the stigmata associated with it due almost entirely to pharmaceutical companies and alcohol producers. But don't take my word for it, do some google searches and read the information for yourself. It's all out there. I promise I ain't making none of this up...

 

[diamondlil]

Just because it has minor psychotropic effects does not mean that it IS dangerous. Please produce one unbiased study that shows actual scientific data indicating the amount of permanant damage caused by habitual marijuana use.

I thought there were studies showing long term heavy use was associated with loss of neurons from the hippocampus and causing memory loss? Backed up by animal studies that showed accelerated change in rats exposed to THC compared to controls.

 

[tyflier]

I thought there were studies showing long term heavy use was associated with loss of neurons from the hippocampus and causing memory loss? Backed up by animal studies that showed accelerated change in rats exposed to THC compared to controls.

It's possible. I haven't seen it, but I haven't really looked for it either.

But what defines "heavy use"? Too much of anything can be harmful. There is always a line where any medication is either used or abused. Some people abuse OTC and prescription medications. Some people use them. Some people use alcohol without negative effects to their lives or livliehoods. Some abuse it and become horrible alcoholics. Pot is no different.

 

[diamondlil]

It's possible. I haven't seen it, but I haven't really looked for it either.

But what defines "heavy use"? Too much of anything can be harmful. There is always a line where any medication is either used or abused. Some people abuse OTC and prescription medications. Some people use them. Some people use alcohol without negative effects to their lives or livliehoods. Some abuse it and become horrible alcoholics. Pot is no different.

I've probably got a copy of the original paper around somewhere, I remembered it from all those years ago when I was writing an essay on brain chemistry for my degree! I think the people studied were rastafari with heavy daily use.
(Don't expect me to disagree on alcohol's much more harmful effects, I spend my working life around people damaged or dying as a direct result of alcohol.)

 

[Shiari]

While I see no reason for marijuana to be illegal (yes, it DOES affect job performance, memory and can slightly increase the chance for psychosis, but so does alcohol), I'm not looking forward to the day it is legalised.

I have extremely adverse reactions to marijuana smoke, ranging from mild dizziness and nausea, all the way to vomiting, tachycardia/palpitations, severe disorientation and fainting. This includes smelling it on people's clothing. -_-

 

[tyflier]

I've probably got a copy of the original paper around somewhere, I remembered it from all those years ago when I was writing an essay on brain chemistry for my degree! I think the people studied were rastafari with heavy daily use.
(Don't expect me to disagree on alcohol's much more harmful effects, I spend my working life around people damaged or dying as a direct result of alcohol.)

Well, there is very little doubt that sitting around the house and doing nothing but smoking reefer all day is not a good idea. Moderation is the key to successful use of any substance.

But therein lies part of the problem. Most people hear "legalize marijuana" and they automatically assume the person saying it is a burned out hippy that does nothing but smoke dope all day, has no goals or ambitions, and what have you. Couple that with the myth that legalization will suddenly mean people will be toking up on public transportation, going in to work stoned, and just getting high all day long, and it's no wonder some people are against it.

I think anyone that sits and rationally considers it will realize that legalizing marijuana isn't going to turn America into a country of drug-crazed psychopaths, or a country full of lazy burned out slobs. It won't change much of anything, except that users will no longer be criminals, and the commercial potential can begin to be explored. And if you ask me...that's a good thing...

 

[Dinah]

I agree with everything you have to say (and I am so glad because last time we debated and I hate to do that twice in a row with the same person :cheers: LOL)

I always thought employers would still be able to implement policy against doing it at work (I mean you can't drink at work). (?) The same with public transit, they don't let you smoke or drink on the bus (at least not the ones here). Does anyone think that pointing that sort of thing out more often might help to lessen the worries of people who may not feel comfortable with the idea? What about those of you in states where it is at least legal medically what are the details concerning being in public? If just knowing they are around it makes a person uncomfortable, I wonder how often a person like that would encounter such a thing? I mean with smoke free zones and things I rarely encounter people who are drinking or smoking cigarettes. Unless I am at a private residence, or at a public venue where you would expect something like that (like a bar). I know that some people worry about it being a problem, but I wonder with all of the No Smoking places that exist already for cigarettes how often would someone who is against marijuana even encounter it if they didn't go looking?

 

[danielle]

Last time I checked these laws do not allow for the public smoking of marijuana and instead must be used indoors so I don't see people walking down the street smoking joints like cigarettes. I know for a fact marijuana DOES NOT lead to the use of harder drugs first hand and there are many studies that have found the same thing. I don't see the problem with the law at all and wish it were more widespread. If you don't like pot don't smoke it kinda like with cigarettes it's a choice. Our government could put our recession in the past by growing and regulating it themselves which would also have the effect of reducing crime while stimulating the economy and emptying prisons of pot smokers. As someone who has smoked pot and drank I have to say alcohol is FAR more destructive than a joint both short and long term and unless you've smoked yourself you really can't say. I also have to argue hemp in itself is far more ecofriendly, easier to grow, process, and is more durable than cotton or synthetic fibers having a multitude of uses which could easily replace many of the crops grown here and abroad for clothing, paper, tents, and anything non metal you can think of. I just don't get the uproar over a law that only effects you if you want it to- pot smokers don't go crazy and kill people, wreck their cars, become violent, steal, or cause harm to our society in any way. Honestly their calmer and nicer

 

[Outcast]

After reading everything all of you guys have to say about the matter, I will be agreeing with Tyflier on this one.

I don't and most likely never will use marijuana, but if they legalized it, the government would be able to regulate it much better than they do now. Which means, they will be getting a little extra revenue from a source that is untapped, and it may help us get out of debt a little faster.

I also did not know that so many different things could be used from hemp.. I knew of rope and clothes, but the other things mentioned I had never known... It is amazing that they would outlaw something so useful.

 

[danielle]

Reefer Madness- great movie, watch it and you'll know exactly why

 

[VickyChaiTea]

So...you think prohibition across the board is the way to go? Do you think that will be successful in getting all illegal drugs out of America, or do you think it will create a multi-trillion dollar per year criminal underworld that thrives in crime, violence, and easy money? I know where money is...

I think it would help deter the amount of drug use over time, yeah. Especially if the punishments for being caught with it were severe. Nothing is every going to completely get rid of pot, or cigs, or alcohol. No system is perfect 100% of the time, either. But I think that in the long run, it would be a good thing.

Name one practical medical application that marijuana can successfully ease that is done better and safer by a different federally controlled drug.

Ambien Oral is used as something to help you sleep, it has the side effect of affecting short term memory occasionally, and only temporarily. The WORST that can happen to you on this drug is you suffer withdraw effects from using it for extended periods of time. The worst thing that can happen to you from smoking pot is getting CANCER and die. :/

Just because it has minor psychotropic effects does not mean that it IS dangerous. Please produce one unbiased study that shows actual scientific data indicating the amount of permanant damage caused by habitual marijuana use.

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html
http://www.drugabuse.gov/infofacts/marijuana.html


Big difference between drying out a plant to make it burn, and chemically extracting and altering the components within the plant to create a synthetic drug. You do not alter the chemical structure of the plant before you can use it. It does not need to be synthesized, compounded, extracted, modified, altered, or created. You grow, pick, and smoke.

So? Still doesn't make it safe.

Besides all of that, it makes stronger fibers for rope, clothing, canvases, tarps, tents, shoes, upholstery, and just about any other fabric you can think of. It grows 10 times faster than trees, and has a much heavier pulp which allows for more paper to be made from smaller farms. The seed of the plant is second only to the soybean in the amount of protein available. It can be used as a "bumper crop" in agriculture to replenish depleted nutrients from food crops. It's a fantastic AND efficient heat fuel. It grows almost everywhere in the world naturally, in one form or another, and can thriive in a tremendous variety of climates. And we haven't really even begun to scratch the surface of it's non-medicinal commercial applications.

Hemp is a great fiber and I think it should be used more often. Not gonna disagree with you there.

The only "problem" with marijuana is the stigmata associated with it due almost entirely to pharmaceutical companies and alcohol producers. But don't take my word for it, do some google searches and read the information for yourself. It's all out there. I promise I ain't making none of this up...

Already did some google research, all I found for pot was a bunch of sites made by people who seem like big pot heads, who think it's cool and hip and makes them look so awesome. Look at me, I'm doing something illegal! I wanna do the opposite of what the government says because it's COOL! I'm soooo anti establishment. I hate people like that. Not saying all pot smokers are that way, just to clarify.

 

[Outcast]

So...you think prohibition across the board is the way to go? Do you think that will be successful in getting all illegal drugs out of America, or do you think it will create a multi-trillion dollar per year criminal underworld that thrives in crime, violence, and easy money? I know where money is...

I think it would help deter the amount of drug use over time, yeah. Especially if the punishments for being caught with it were severe. Nothing is every going to completely get rid of pot, or cigs, or alcohol. No system is perfect 100% of the time, either. But I think that in the long run, it would be a good thing.

Name one practical medical application that marijuana can successfully ease that is done better and safer by a different federally controlled drug.

Ambien Oral is used as something to help you sleep, it has the side effect of affecting short term memory occasionally, and only temporarily. The WORST that can happen to you on this drug is you suffer withdraw effects from using it for extended periods of time. The worst thing that can happen to you from smoking pot is getting CANCER and die. :/

Just because it has minor psychotropic effects does not mean that it IS dangerous. Please produce one unbiased study that shows actual scientific data indicating the amount of permanant damage caused by habitual marijuana use.

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html
http://www.drugabuse.gov/infofacts/marijuana.html


Big difference between drying out a plant to make it burn, and chemically extracting and altering the components within the plant to create a synthetic drug. You do not alter the chemical structure of the plant before you can use it. It does not need to be synthesized, compounded, extracted, modified, altered, or created. You grow, pick, and smoke.

So? Still doesn't make it safe.

Besides all of that, it makes stronger fibers for rope, clothing, canvases, tarps, tents, shoes, upholstery, and just about any other fabric you can think of. It grows 10 times faster than trees, and has a much heavier pulp which allows for more paper to be made from smaller farms. The seed of the plant is second only to the soybean in the amount of protein available. It can be used as a "bumper crop" in agriculture to replenish depleted nutrients from food crops. It's a fantastic AND efficient heat fuel. It grows almost everywhere in the world naturally, in one form or another, and can thriive in a tremendous variety of climates. And we haven't really even begun to scratch the surface of it's non-medicinal commercial applications.

Hemp is a great fiber and I think it should be used more often. Not gonna disagree with you there.

The only "problem" with marijuana is the stigmata associated with it due almost entirely to pharmaceutical companies and alcohol producers. But don't take my word for it, do some google searches and read the information for yourself. It's all out there. I promise I ain't making none of this up...

Already did some google research, all I found for pot was a bunch of sites made by people who seem like big pot heads, who think it's cool and hip and makes them look so awesome. Look at me, I'm doing something illegal! I wanna do the opposite of what the government says because it's COOL! I'm soooo anti establishment. I hate people like that. Not saying all pot smokers are that way, just to clarify.

Can you show us the research saying that use of marijuana causes cancer?

I thought that some doctors proscribed Medical Marijuana to actually slow the progression of some cancers...

Also, Prohibition all across the board will do nothing to help anyone honest out there. In fact if we outlawed alcohol and tobacco products, there are many people who are law abiding citizens that will get arrested because they refuse to give up their vice... I know many friends who would then be outlaws...
Oh and prohibition was tried a couple of times already.... It did not work at all.. If anything it helped mafia's out and in the end gave them more power than what they originally had.

 

[Shiari]

Smoke in general can cause cancer as it damages the lungs. It's just that cigarettes, because of the other carcinogens present, do it a fair bit more.

Marijuana does not slow down cancer, it helps ease the pain of cancer, and increase appetite which is something that normally dissipates when a cancer has become large or well spread. And continuing to eat will lead to a longer time spent alive.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

Exactly, Shiari. Although I have heard that pot has more carcinogens than cigarettes, it's just pot smokers usually smoke less than cigarette smokers so it SEEMS like cigarettes cause it more readily than pot.

Prohibition wasn't done tactfully or slowly, it was pretty stupid in my opinion. I think if people are slowly weaned off of cigs, alcohol, ect. and support groups are put in place it would be much smoother. Although I would still expect to see protests in the streets and lots of people doing it anyway. But I still think that it would do more good in the long run.

 

[tyflier]

Prohibition has been going on in this country since the late 1960s against marijuana. So far, it has not curbed use. What it HAS accomplished is putting millions of people in jail, costing trillions of dollars in tax money, and wasting the time and lives of countless law enforcement officials over a plant that has no scientific data to support it being federally regulated.

How about we try legalizing it, taxing the sale, exploiting it's commercial viability, and creating hundreds of thousands of jobs in a domestic agricultural campaign?:shrugs:

Ambien Oral is used as something to help you sleep, it has the side effect of affecting short term memory occasionally, and only temporarily. The WORST that can happen to you on this drug is you suffer withdraw effects from using it for extended periods of time. The worst thing that can happen to you from smoking pot is getting CANCER and die. :/

Here is a link to the Ambien CR side effects listing. Remember that this is written by the company that produces the drug...

http://www.ambiencr.com/using-ambien/ambien-cr-side-effects.aspx?WT.svl=sideeffectsfooter

I especially liked this part...

Other concerns
You should be aware that sleep medication may cause memory problems, tolerance, dependence, withdrawal, changes in behavior and thinking, and issues concerning pregnancy.

If you cook marijuana and eat it with your food, or vaporize the THC without burning the plant, you eliminate the carbon monoxide. That means you eliminate 98% of the carcinogenic chemicals.

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html
http://www.drugabuse.gov/infofacts/marijuana.html

Please tell me these links are a joke. You are kidding about these, right?

So? Still doesn't make it safe.

Doesn't make it dangerous, either.

Hemp is a great fiber and I think it should be used more often. Not gonna disagree with you there.

Well, that's probably a good thing...

Already did some google research, all I found for pot was a bunch of sites made by people who seem like big pot heads, who think it's cool and hip and makes them look so awesome. Look at me, I'm doing something illegal! I wanna do the opposite of what the government says because it's COOL! I'm soooo anti establishment. I hate people like that. Not saying all pot smokers are that way, just to clarify.

Well, try googling "cannabis". Try googling without a predjudiced and biased eye. You gave me three links full of unsupported opinions as "proof" of how dangerous pot is. I'm going to do you a favor...

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5101

That's the links page for NORML, which stands for "National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Law". On that page you will find 3 choices...Allies, Opponents, and Research. Read through the links at all three choices. read it with an open mind, and without your deep-seated predjudices. Than come back and we will finish the conversation, if you care to...

 

[vetusvates]

I have never read anything that said delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol, the primary active molecule, nor any of its several active metabolites,...had any carcinogenic effects. If I am misled, please direct me toward the enlightened path.

Chris, you will find this story amusing, I hope. It is quite true.
In the summer of 1981, when I was 18, I tested out of a whole year of university level freshman english...by writing a perfect 'keyhole technique' three page essay on 'why marijuana should be legalized'.
As a result of my well-thought-out and well-played literary skills, and the socio-cultural sentiment of the times, I gleefully skipped into college in the fall of 1981 as a sophomore, at least in the english department. (Well, also in the math department. I tested out of a year of math as well. )
Consekwently, I gots to takes me alotsa more chemistries.

Here in 2010, I am amazed, dazed, and crazed that people are still in a medieval funk over the subject.

My deepest and sincerest apologies for the "wikipedia" citation, but it covers much, all in one place.
Has all the right bunks and debunks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol

 

[ceduke]

Thank you tyflier for providing the FACTS in this discussion.

I am bi-polar, and sleep issues can be a real problem for me. When I'm on the high end of mania I am too "wired" to sleep. My brain is spinning and so many thoughts are crashing all over and it's chaos. When I'm down I can't get RESTFUL sleep. I may be in bed for 14 hours but I cannot get rested. This has caused issues with chronic fatigue since my early teens.

I've tried taking Ambien. It crashes me straight down to the blackest pit of the worst depression I've ever experienced. That was the only time in my life where I actually thought I might be a danger to myself. Yet a small amount of marijuana provides the most restful night of sleep I've ever had. Deep, dreamless, and I'm rested the next morning.Besides that, Ambien is ADDICTIVE!! I don't want to be dependent on an addictive substance, especially since I often go weeks at a time in a fairly normal frame of mind where I don't need any assistance sleeping.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

Have you ever taken any meds other than pot and ambien, ceduke?

And tyflyer, I still think cancer and death are worse than withdraw symptoms.

As far as legalizing it to create jobs, I'd rather try some OTHER way to produce them for people... you know, a way that doesn't involve people getting lung cancer.

I saw nothing on that NORML site to convince me to change my stance. I think it's recreational use should be legalized.

I stand by my links.

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Natural, natural, natural... who cares if it's natural or not? Are you under the impression "natural, non-chemically altered" things can't hurt you? Go rub up on some nettles. Pick up a rattlesnake. Just because it grows in your back yard does not make it magically safe.

 

[Shiari]

That is an interesting fallacy I often see (wheeee! tangent!) Arsenic is 'natural'. So is cyanide. And lead.
Because I work at a vet hospital, I get the joy of "Onions and garlic are all natural so it can't hurt my pet!".... Apparently your beloved kitty doesn't need his RBCs, hmmmn?