• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

Motley Or Not

RO8 H said:
I have found a really nice female granite ultramel. Once id had a good look at the snake I noticed that it didn't have any patterning on its belly is this common in this morph or could it also have the motley gene? Photos will soon follow one she is at home with me.
Click to expand...

What are both parents of this snake :
a) PROVEN heterozygous and
b) homozygous for, please?

Once you get the amel gene and the ultra gene floating around in there together, and get a few years experience breeding them, then the real hair-pulling-out-trying-to-figure-out-what-you're-looking-at begins. It's really easy to have visual ultras, visual ultramels, and toss in some anery of any kind (silver queen, lavender, caramel, anery a, anery b, cinder) combined with a medley of "defining head patterns" and toss in some mixture of patterns...

You can spend 12 years running test breedings, even repeating some of them, and continously hit results that do not match up with what the corncalc tells you the possible outcomes are for each egg.

That's a pretty pet you have there. ;)
 
Very new to all the morphs as I only ever bought a new snake because it looked pretty. Next year I and looking to pair a few up for breeding so I am trying to lean all off the genes, morphs and genetics as I go along. I can vouch for the pink eye. Not quite a pink as you would find on an amel but still not the dark brown eye you would find on anything which doesn't lack in dark pigments.
 
Well in your first post you stated that you found a ultramel granite, is there a reason that you doubt that? I think it could very well be that. ultramel granite is short for ultramel diffused anery (granite nowadays is short for diffused anery, also nowadays most people use bloodred to mean the same as diffused, so if you wanted to say ultramel anery bloodred that would be the same as the other two)

ultramel is a comdominate expression of the ultra gene with the amel gene so in stead of being amel (two copies of the amel gene) or ultra (two copies of the ultra gene) it is ultramel (one copy of each gene, and since they are codom expressed they dont give the same eyes that a normal has or an amel has either, but lies somewhere between the two)
 
Just my guess but I think she looks like an ultramel anery with some diffusion (anery + diffused = granite). I don't see anything that says motley. Anyway I don't see any reason to doubt what it was sold as.
 
gelshark said:
Well in your first post you stated that you found a ultramel granite, is there a reason that you doubt that? I think it could very well be that. ultramel granite is short for ultramel diffused anery (granite nowadays is short for diffused anery, also nowadays most people use bloodred to mean the same as diffused, so if you wanted to say ultramel anery bloodred that would be the same as the other two)

ultramel is a comdominate expression of the ultra gene with the amel gene so in stead of being amel (two copies of the amel gene) or ultra (two copies of the ultra gene) it is ultramel (one copy of each gene, and since they are codom expressed they dont give the same eyes that a normal has or an amel has either, but lies somewhere between the two)
Click to expand...

agreed

ian's viv doesn't have a granite ultramel, but they do have pics of ultramel anery. The diffused/bloodred gene will make the belly virtually patternless, have the odd head markings you've shown in photos, and lack of lateral (side) blotching which is mostly obvious on this snake around the last 2/3 of the body it seems.

http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/elaphe_guttata/ultramel_anery/
 
You could send her down here and let her have some hot springtime action with the ultramel striped caramel (aka golddust stripe) eagercornboy I just got from Heather. And then we'd know for sure if the corncalc isn't lying again whether she is het or homo ultra, and/or het amel.

Or the short version is, if there's not a triple prong 'Neptune's fishing spear head marker', then she's not homo ultra, even if she's a visual ultra.

Of course all this is just my personal take on things. Because as already discussed, definitions have a way of changing.
 
Thank you. so what you are also saying is that if you have two of the same gene in this case amel (which is normally recessive) but because there are two make the amel gene codom and able to come out as visual with the anery gene thus making a lighter coloured snake with not quite amel not quite normal eyes.

Am I getting the gist now or am i still talking nonsense.
 
I'm stepping out of this now. It took me 9 months to accept and get the gist of how ultra X amel works, and that was from absorbing what a lot of others told me about how the two genes work together predictability. Then I started doing my breedings, and it was only after that, when I found out all of the persons I'd learned from, had never actually done any breedings of them at all. They were just helpfully passing along the most popularly accepted answers gleaned elsewhere online.
 
dave partington said:
I'm stepping out of this now. It took me 9 months to accept and get the gist of how ultra X amel works, and that was from absorbing what a lot of others told me about how the two genes work together predictability. Then I started doing my breedings, and it was only after that, when I found out all of the persons I'd learned from, had never actually done any breedings of them at all. They were just helpfully passing along the most popularly accepted answers gleaned elsewhere online.
Click to expand...

If I could probe you brain one more time. What were your findings as you were literally watching it happen.
 
RO8 H said:
If I could probe you brain one more time. What were your findings as you were literally watching it happen.
Click to expand...

Very Messy: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132208

The Corn Calc "says" the possibilities for each egg is:
Male: Ultramel, Zipperstripe Motley het Caramel

Female: Butter, Motley ( Amel, Caramel, Motley ) het Hypo

Phenotype:

1 / 4 Ultramel, Motley het Caramel 50% poss het. Stripe, Hypo
1 / 4 Amel, Motley het Caramel 50% poss het. Stripe, Hypo
1 / 4 Gold Dust, Motley ( Ultramel, Caramel, Motley ) 50% poss het. Stripe, Hypo
1 / 4 Butter, Motley ( Amel, Caramel, Motley ) 50% poss het. Stripe, Hypo
Genotype:

1 / 16 Ultramel, Motley het Caramel
1 / 16 Ultramel, Motley het Caramel, Stripe
1 / 16 Ultramel, Motley het Caramel, Hypo
1 / 16 Ultramel, Motley het Caramel, Hypo, Stripe
1 / 16 Amel, Motley het Caramel
1 / 16 Amel, Motley het Caramel, Stripe
1 / 16 Amel, Motley het Caramel, Hypo
1 / 16 Amel, Motley het Caramel, Hypo, Stripe
1 / 16 Ultramel, Caramel, Motley
1 / 16 Ultramel, Caramel, Motley het Stripe
1 / 16 Ultramel, Caramel, Motley het Hypo
1 / 16 Amel, Caramel, Motley
1 / 16 Ultramel, Caramel, Motley het Hypo, Stripe
1 / 16 Amel, Caramel, Motley het Stripe
1 / 16 Amel, Caramel, Motley het Hypo
1 / 16 Amel, Caramel, Motley het Hypo, Stripe

A lot of people do not realize the output of the corncalc is the mathematical possibility for each egg. It is not what will happen when there are other variables at play, such as more then simply 2 het or homo simple recessive genes at play. And even then, oftentimes, results aren't what they should be.
 
What really blows about all that mess is that I only know what each of the parents is het for (caramel for the male, hypo for the female), but there might still be other hets floating around in there I am not aware of, simply because I haven't "test bred" them to each of the other confirmed 42 other simple recessive & "so-called co-dom" genes which behave like traits...
 
I think on my next buy I will get a snake that I know the full background of. Unfortunately it seems that most of the reptile shops round where I live don't seem to ask that question when they are taking then in in the first place. I'm sure its a nice surprise to put a few of your mystery snakes together and see what surprises they give you but I want to know what I'm going to be producing the first time I breed them so at least I would have achieved a goal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top