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Mouse Woes

Jessicat

All Pied Everything
I have never been successful in raising mice. I have attempted to keep feeder mice several times all with failed attempts for babies. I think many of my problems sprouted from setting up a group and then trying to alter it.. such as grouping together a 1.1 and then trying to add another female to that.

I like mice and think that they're incredably amusing to watch. Breeding for different colors sparks my interest as well. For those reasons and for the benefit of my snakes I've picked up a 1.2 group and hope to have some fun breeding mice.

I've already run into problems. =/

To backtrack a little, I or rigionally got a 1.1 pair to start my colony. I took the bus home from the mall but had to walk about 5 blocks to my apartment from the stop nearest my apartment. I set the two carrying boxes down in a large plastic tub and opened them so the mice could meet eachother for the first time. Instead of two inquisitive mice sniffing eachother I only saw the male moving around, he headed towards the female box. When a few minutes of quiet had passed I checked things out. I found my male hunched over a freshly dead mouse. She must have gotten over heated on the 5 blocks walk. It's been pretty hot lately. I was pretty discouraged that I had done something very wrong, but the female was pretty small so instead of blaming myself too much I gave my 05 Motley a little snack.

I set up a nice little home for the male with plans of adding another female once I found a mouse to my liking. A few days later, visiting my parents in Portland I decided to check out the selection of mice at a local pet shop. I found a few nice girls and set them up in a small temporary home. I brought them home to the male and put their cage next to his. I had a lot of cleaning to do and was excited about my new vacuum so i left them like that for awhile. When I checked on them again the male's cage looked somewhat vacant. I decided to put the two females in it anyway so they could meet while I set up a larger cage for the three of them to live in. I watched them for a few seconds and didn't see the third little nose poke out! I grew sick to my stomach thinking that I had somehow killed the poor little male. I started thinking things like "maybe this corner is not far away enough from the window", and "what if the cat litter I'm using was toxic?!"

I removed the females from the cage and started cleaning out the male's old cage, looking for the body. To my great suprise it was NOT buried under the wood shavings or cat litter!

My cat found the little escapee today to my relief. Although the little guy seems pretty scared from being carried around in a cat's mouth for about 10 seconds I think he'll live. I set him up in the little temporary cage I was using to house the girls in. I want to let him settle down and realize he's safe before I introduce him to the girls.

My main question is: The two females have been exclusively together for 2 days now, is that long enough for them to reject the male as part of their "group"? How should I go about introducing them? I'm thinking of introducing them in the temporary home that the male is in right now. Any advice/thoughts on how to procede?

Thank you ahead of time, also, if you've actually read this far THANKYOU VERY MUCH for taking the time!
You will now be rewarded with a few pictures of the gang ;)

I've named her Ray (with Raven in the back of my mind).
Raven.jpg


It was kinda hard to get a picture of the other girl, she wasn't being too cooperative. Also these are through glass =/
littlefamily.jpg

Despite a few tiny white marks on her back she's very evenly colored. I like the white marks though. :cool:

Here's my little escapee male.. He's looking a bit freaked out right now.
escapee.jpg

I like the blue creeping out from his undercoat. Maybe if these guys are successful I'll start another thread concerning bringing that color out!

here's his little temporary home.. yup, that's a measuring cup as a water dish, the ceiling is too low for a drip bottle!
temporaryhome.jpg


Thank you
 
I'm not sure how everyone else does it or what the rule is on the time it takes for mice to become a colony but... I can tell you what I do.

I have a rack that holds 25 bins of mice. I keep a 1:4 ratio in each bin because I find it the most productive. I've tried 1:3 and 1:5 and even 1:8(for culling pinkies). Once in a while a mouse dies and has to be replaced. There's no easy way to introduce a new mouse. I just put the new one in and wish it good luck. I've found that when a young adult is put in the bin to replace the dead mouse it has about a 60 - 80% chance of making it with older more established adults. No matter what... the new mouse is going to go through some "hazing" so to say no matter what it age is. Sometimes they kill that mouse. I would say a large adult has about a 95% chance of making it through that "hazing" process. It seems to me the bigger and stronger the new mouse is the better. That way it can kind of hold it's own so to say. I know it's easier for someone with 400 mice to loose one or two than it is for someone that only has, say 12.

So... if they're about the same age, size, and very healthy I would put them together. Keep a close eye on them and if they're still fighting real bad after about 24 hours then split them up.
 
Hi Jessica!

I have had fairly good luck introducing the female into the males cage - so that is a good idea. I move mice (or hamsters) around a bit in the first few weeks, but typically not after a month or two.

I agree with Vinny - you won't know until you try, right? Just keep an eye on them. I think that it's encouraging that the females get along.

Hey Vinny - have you ever thought of just letting a baby grow up to replace the male/female that you lost? I have had good luck with this when I want to add to an existing colony, but don't want to replace the whole colony. Just a thought.

Cute little workers, btw :D Good Luck!

-Tonya
 
I'm no ecpert, but I'd put the females into the male's cage like you said, where he has scented it and can feel a bit dominant, since he has to defend himself against 2 females.
 
Tonya - If I see a fuzzy with a trait I'm looking for I might leave that one to grow up and eventually replace one of the females in the bin. Usually I have 50 to 70 females/males on hand so I just add another one so it doesn't slow down productivity. I'd have to wait 6 weeks for a female pinkie to be ready to breed vs a female that's ready to go today. It's all about the snake food... I play around with the mouse genetics/colors just for fun. :)
 
Thanks for all the advice guys! I'm struggling with the idea of introducing the females to the male as soon as possible or waiting a few days for the male to recover more from the cat. He wasn't injured in anyway (no blood, just some mussed up fur), but he doesn't look quite as up to life as he did before.
I suppose I could put them together momentarily and see how it goes, removing the females if there is any fighting.
The male's cage is the temporary one and it's rather small for 3 mice to "get to know eachother" in.

Another idea.. if I separate the females for a few days and then introduce them all at once things might go smoother? I suppose it's better for the two females to get along though, I don't really want to mess up their bond.
 
Does that cage you are keeping them in have a place where you can punch out a circle on top? If so, you can get water bottles that fit in there. I actually have a female dwarf hamster in one like that right now(waiting for her to grow a bit). Oasis makes a water bottle that works great with those cages. In fact, all of my mice have cages similar to that(same top) and I use those bottles on all of them. They just hang straight down and have a rubber ring to hold it in place. I hate using water bowls because it makes the bedding messy, they often mess the water with bedding, and I actually had a mouse drown in one once(not likely, but possible). Just some ideas!
 
VinnyJ said:
Tonya - If I see a fuzzy with a trait I'm looking for I might leave that one to grow up and eventually replace one of the females in the bin. Usually I have 50 to 70 females/males on hand so I just add another one so it doesn't slow down productivity. I'd have to wait 6 weeks for a female pinkie to be ready to breed vs a female that's ready to go today. It's all about the snake food... I play around with the mouse genetics/colors just for fun. :)

Just thought I'd throw this in! I had a female become pregnant by her father, when she was just 3.5 weeks old. She had her first litter of 8, when she was 7 weeks old. I was pretty amazed, anyway. :crazy02:
 
VinnyJ said:
Tonya - If I see a fuzzy with a trait I'm looking for I might leave that one to grow up and eventually replace one of the females in the bin. Usually I have 50 to 70 females/males on hand so I just add another one so it doesn't slow down productivity. I'd have to wait 6 weeks for a female pinkie to be ready to breed vs a female that's ready to go today. It's all about the snake food... I play around with the mouse genetics/colors just for fun. :)

Yes, snake food for me too :D But I'll bet I don't have the numbers you do, so I might be able to afford the wait. I really hate the cannibalistic nature of mice and try to do everything I can to decrease.... ughhh.... that. :eek1: I love the color variations too !!

Jessica - I agree that a smaller enclosure might intimidate them. Why not take the girls out, toss in the male with his bedding and then add the girls after a bit? I think I'd do it sooner rather than later. Good Luck!!

Becky - it's crazy!!! I can't believe she delivered that early.... yikes.

-Tonya
 
Tonya, what a great idea! Actually, I think I'll do a bit of a "flip" on them, similar to the procedure I used to bond my rabbits. I'll put the females in the male's cage and the male into the female's so that they get used to eachother's sent. I hope that some of the male's bedding will help make the transition smoother.

And Colleen, I've got a good waterbottle in the larger tank. Do you see in the first picture of Ray how one of the sides of the cage is barred? I took a small barred bottom of one of my other cages and taped it to the side of the tank so that I could hang a waterbottle in there. I tried putting the waterbottle from the top of the cage but it left too much of a gap and I was nervous that it would only be a matter of time before they squeezed through it.

The reason I don't have a waterbottle in the temp home is because it's one of the kritter keepers that's designed for snakes and the ceiling is very low.
 
The introduction was a success! Instead of fussing around with the male's cage which was pretty tiny I shredded up newspaper from the corners of his temp home and threw in this toilet paper roll stuffed with timothy hay.
To my great happiness there was NO squabbling. Not even a squeak of discontent. At first I think the male was a bit scared by the two females and kept his distance a bit. By the end of the day though he was already putting the moves on them!
This morning:
bondingsucess.jpg


stud.jpg


yay! I've read that the females will become receptive after 4 days of introduction to the male. Hopefully I'll be posting some nice baby mice pictures soon!
 
i have to ask how many snakes do you have for this many mice and also do u feed off rats i've got 23 snakes and i'm constantly running to a petstore to buy feeders yikes ex pensive!!!!! mice kill each other and rat pinks are disliked by my snakes. gail
 
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