Multiple Snakes per enclosure-comment

[bsmith359]

I don't know where to put this, but I just wanted to get my thoughts out there.

I know that on this forum, just the mere mention of co-habing snakes has become a taboo on this forum. Just the mention of it, you get attacked and preyed upon by people.

I understand the reasons on why you shouldnt do it, but I honestly do not agree with it.

I have a 50 gallon tank. I keep 3 snakes together in it, a normal corn, upper keys, and a hypo motley. I am planing on adding an albino and a reverse oaketee.

Now I know many of you are going to read that and think I am inhumane and dont care about my animals. or you think I am stupid.

However, there is one thing about the world at large is that people always focus on the negative. people always focus on the failures of keeping more than one snake per enclosure and they act like it is as if your puting two male beta fish together in a small cup...

The reason why you here about so many failures is because that is all that people post. people only post on this site when they have a problem, thats when people only ask qustions.

I live near a store called stingers exotics in livonia michigan. They are a reptile specialty store. This women who owns the store is the "Kathy Love" of michigan. She has been doing this her whole life. She is a strong beleiver in that you CAN keep more than one corn snake together.

people make it sound like on this forum that it is impossible and that it is a 'mortal sin' if you keep them together.

Now my suggestion to the people who are like me, and want to co-hab your snakes, I suggest getting a cage no smaller then a 50 gallon, and provide lots of hideing spots. Make your look like a jungle, literly, and you shouldnt have a problem.

for those who use the argument "how would youf eel being locked in a room with someone you hated and couldent escape" on why it is bad, well let me ask you this qustion...."how humane is it to lock an animal up in a cage in the first place? it doesnt matter how big the cage is, or how comefortable it is....a cage is a cage. a prision is still a prison. one can go to prision and could feel like a 5 star hotell, but even then, it is still a prison....for those who want to say its inhumane...then you have to argue that it is inhumane to keep any animal locked up in a cage, period. "-- I just thought I would put that out there.


I love my snakes very much. and the moment I detect a problem is when i would begin to seperate. When I get the other two snakes, I will strongly consider putting them in my 150 gallon set up when they grow up. I think they will be fine.

 

[SHAKSNAKE]

hmmmm... your making me consider it now. i have a 30 gallon with lots of dig space, about 3 hides, and some climbing spots. i do plan on getting a bigger tank within the next year or 2. i already have an okeetee and debating on getting another male in there.

how old are your snakes?

 

[Chip]

It's certainly possible, there is simply no upside. And lots of downside. The main reason people want to do it is to be able to buy the snake they want and not have to buy another enclosure. I have yet to meet an experienced hobbyist (let alone breeder) who cohabs. I have personally had cannibalism (in corns) from cohabbing briefly. They aren't social creatures, they don't need or desire the company of others, unless it's breeding time. If you've ever accidentally paired up two males, you've probably seen that they don't care for one another a bit!
We disagree on a lot of things here, and sometimes have spirited debates. But when 100's of cornsnake keepers can agree on any aspect of husbandry, there are probably good reasons.

 

[ZoologyGirl]

I prefer to keep my snakes seperate to simply avoid any problems such as cannibalism, stress, etc...

I do not see, for myself or the snakes, any major benefit in keeping them together. So I'd rather avoid the risk and prefer to keep them seperate.

It's not a problem until it's a problem. I'd rather not be one of those people, no matter how few they are, that come on here to post about their problems with cohabbing.

 

[Kronos]

I've cohabbed some of my snakes before, even snakes of different species. That was when I was young and inexperienced, though, so I probably wouldn't have noticed any problems if they did occur. Now I don't cohab them.

I just recently added a new corn to a cage with a 2 year old that I've had for a year (the new corn is also 2). I noticed that my original corn immediately acted unusual. It stayed out in the open all of the time. It began to spend a lot of time in its water bowl, which was also very unusual. I believe the new one basically forced it out of the hides. It's very possible they're both males - I don't know for sure because I don't breed my snakes. But I didn't want to stress out the snake I've had the longest. So I got a new enclosure and separated them. Now everyone seems back to normal.

But having said all of that, my personal opinion is that it probably depends on the snakes. If I hadn't noticed signs of stress, they would obviously be still sharing the same cage. I don't agree with some of the dire warnings we see in some of these posts, that you MUST not do some things or else you're an irresponsible snake keeper. Under some conditions you probably can cohab some snakes, but again, it will depend on the individuals.

Very interesting to hear other people's perspectives, though.

 

[starsevol]

I use the argument about being locked up with someone you hate and not being able to escape, and it is a valid arguement. Keeping an snake in a tub does not contribute to stress, make them go off feed, make them regurge, or accidently breed a female too young which may kill her. Co habbing can do all these things, because corns are not social, do not like each other and experiance stress when forced together.

Keeping snakes is not inhumane, but keeping them with no regard to their stress levels or health is.

 

[Christen]

All I can say is WOW!!! I do have a few snakes cohabbing and in the other thread I explained how I do that, but I still don't think having 2 snakes in a 55 is wrong let alone 3 snakes in a 55 and going up to 5 snakes in the same 55 is inhuman IMHO. I really hope for the sake of those snakes that they are still babies. :sidestep:

 

[Christen]

All I can say is WOW!!! I do have a few snakes cohabbing and in the other thread I explained how I do that, but I still don't think having 2 snakes in a 55 is wrong let alone 3 snakes in a 55 and going up to 5 snakes in the same 55 is inhuman IMHO. I really hope for the sake of those snakes that they are still babies. :sidestep:

Sorry I meant "I still don't think having 2 snakes in a 55 is RIGHT..."

 

[Kali]

This pops up now and again.
You get lots of "no way because"
A few "yes because"
I'm personally with the "yes, if..."

I keep as many vivs as I have corns, but I do put some of them together part of the year.
A few males together in a big viv, when it's not breeding time.
A few females together in a big viv, when they're not breeding (or right before or after)
When nessecary, all can be seperated, like in breeding time when males fight and females can use the alone time.
I never put hatchlings together (to prevent cannibalism), nor the juveniles, just to be sure.
Snakes in one viv are monitored for any change in behaviour. If there is any, they go back to their own cage. (when it comes to refusal to eat or shed problems, it's already gone too far)

I've only had one male that didn't do well like that. He had no eating or shedding problems, but he started hiding a lot more when before he was regularly cruising around. So back to his own cage, and never tried it with him again. He might have got real problems if I hadn't seperated him, or not. I don't know and won't try out. The behaviour change was enough for me.

I must say that those differences are hard to see, and can only be noticed when you know the behavour of a snake in a viv alone, so I always have to start out with a single snake in a viv, otherwise I don't know what his 'normal' behaviour is, and then I feel I couldn't catch a problem before it really would become a problem.
Also I only got an eye for things like that after many years of staring at many corns. They are all different and all act a bit different, so you can't compare one with another.
I wouldn't have been able to do this in the first years of corn keeping...

For people who say that keeping them together is irresponsible no matter what way you choose to go about it...
Are there any of you that keep beardies? more then one? In one cage?
Go to a bearded dragon site and say so and that it's no problem. Out come the tar and feathers...

 

[Johan13]

The pet store that I got my snake had all their snakes cohabiting together. When i first got interested in corns, I thought it could be cool to have a couple together. Their snakes seemed just fine to me. Anyways, after dong some research I found that many people decided it wasnt such a good thing to do. Most seem to think the risk is somewhat minimal with a very large tank with just 2 and maybe 3 snakes. Personally, I dont think it is worth the risk.

On another note, the same pet store said that I should get a UTH and a heat lamp for the warmside. On top of this they insisted that I didnt waste my money and get a thermastat. So yeah, I'm not thinking they do a great job with their pets.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

I think it's NOT in the snakes best interest. It is PURELY for the owners convenience.

It DOES stress them out, period. Stress can lead to illness and stress related behavior like regurgitating. It most definitely CAN and DOES result in cannibalism, though usually in younger snakes it is not impossible for older snakes to do it too.

Pros:
Less space is taken up, but you get to keep multiple snakes

Cons:
Your snakes can get each other sick
Your snakes may regurgitate from stress
You won't know which snake regurgitated
You can't tell which snake has unhealthy poo
The snake is stressed out because they are NOT social animals and do NOT like being in the same cage with each other.
Cannibalism

The way I see it, you're being selfish and doing something that is potentially DEADLY to your snake because it's more convenient for you. THAT is why people get attacked for mentioning it, and THAT is why people don't like it when it happens. Because it DOES result in the death of snakes. Just because it hasn't happened to you YET doesn't mean it won't. Like smoking. Just because you don't have cancer NOW doesn't mean it doesn't cause cancer.

"how humane is it to lock an animal up in a cage in the first place? it doesnt matter how big the cage is, or how comefortable it is....a cage is a cage. a prision is still a prison. one can go to prision and could feel like a 5 star hotell, but even then, it is still a prison....for those who want to say its inhumane...then you have to argue that it is inhumane to keep any animal locked up in a cage, period. "

This just doesn't make sense. First of all, snakes are not people. You can keep them in captivity and have them be mentally and physically healthy and stimulated. You CAN keep them in a large enclosure with exercise, a good feeding schedule, and basic decor for them to feel safe. That is enough to keep them healthy and content. Period. So no, it's NOT inhumane to keep them in captivity. What's inhumane is putting the life of your snake at risk because you want things to be more convenient for YOU.

 

[Kronos]

VickyChaiTea, you make a lot of assumptions here. Captive snakes are content? How do you know? Because they eat and exist and appear "happy" to us?

Nevertheless, we don't live in a black-and-white world. Corn snakes are very hardy animals and can adapt to many different environments. We can disagree, but it's a little extreme to resort to referring to people who have differing opionions as "selfish". Some snakes can cohab without ill effects, and some can't. I've seen it myself over the years.

 

[Christen]

This is a project that I have been working on today. Here are a couple of my snakes that are very personable and I love having them out in the rest of house with us, but I have so many tanks everywhere and playing musical tanks is a pain. They are male and female so no way to cohab them but I found a way to have them in the same tank with out them being "together." Don't pay attention to the snakes they are in blue so they are not very pretty. lol

 

[starsevol]

<----- see my avatar? Cute little guy isn't he? His name is Kato.
I really love that little guy, in fact an adult picture of his adorns my Capitol One card.
But Kato was not a snake I had ever planned to own.
In 2005 I had a rack burn up on me, and temporarily put 2 snakes together. In the 3 weeks it took to get a new rack, one snake impregnated the other.(Kelsey was sold to me as a male) The female became eggbound and died. Kato and his 2 brothers were the only babies that managed to hatch out of the 14 eggs Kelsey laid before she was bound.
Bottom line, co habbing killed one of my all time favorite snakes.
I love Kato, he looks like a darker version of his mother, but I will regret co habbing for the rest of my life.

 

[decadence]

Multiple snakes per cage is fine in my opinion...i've never had a problem with it, many people have never had a problem with it.

 

[decadence]

They really need an edit button for our own posts....as far as early mating is the only reason i'd never do it. never in fear of them turning cannibalistic

 

[tricksterpup]

This thread will not end well.

 

[Christen]

This thread will not end well.

Amen to that:cheers:

 

[Vicic17]

Everyone here, I feel has valid points, and I know this thread is not going to end well as stated above. I do believe it MAY be possible to cohab perfectly healthy and fine snakes and you made some good points, as many other people made good points to counter yours. In the end, I do believe it is in the snakes best interest to separate them, yes it costs more money, yes it takes up space. However, it gives you the ability to know what is going on a little easier. You know, who regurged, who pooped, you don't have to worry about coming home and finding a big fat snake looking up at with you as if to say, "I may regret eating my 'brother'." etc etc, we can go on and on all day about reasons not to. But in reality, i do believe it may be possible to successfully cohab, i know people who do, and who have. I just personally believe it makes it easier to maintain my snakes, and i don't have to worry about having that rare case.

thanks.

Nick.

 

[SHAKSNAKE]

i'm going on the safe side for now and not housing 2 in 1. maybe in a couple months when i know my first corn better.