Multiple Snakes per enclosure-comment

[DaGiant]

OK, big issue of mine for NOT co-habbing..
if you have a regurge/bad fecal, and you have
multiple animals in the enclosure (no matter size of it)
WHO DID IT?
Who do you treat?
You say you care about their health, how
can you do the correct thing with the unknown?
I had a guy a while back state he would treat them all
if that happened..
That is even more irresponsible!

For the health and well being of animals you say you care for
DON'T DO IT!
I have 100 snakes currently and each has their own tank/tub,
it's inexpensive insurance and piece of mind to be sure I'm
doing my best for the animal.

The arguement about enclosed "Period"
doesn't swing since these are captive bred
animals and wouldn't survive in the wild for the
most part.

 

[quixoft]

I use the argument about being locked up with someone you hate and not being able to escape, and it is a valid arguement.

I don't disagree and all my snakes are in separate enclosures but you have to give the guy credit for pointing out the issues with keeping a snake in a cage period.

You compare cohabbing snakes to a human being stuck in a room with a person you hate. That is fine. But if you compare snakes to humans in that situation, then you must compare snakes to humans in all situations such as living solo in a cage.

How would you feel if you were locked up in a single room by yourself for your entire life only to be removed for eating and when your "master" decided to play with you. Sure, you would eat, drink, and sleep to stay alive but would you be happy and stress free? Doubtful. Ever heard of cabin fever?

You can't use a comparison to humans in one situation that caters toward your beliefs and then completely ignore a similar comparison to humans that doesn't fit with what you believe. That is very hypocritical.

In my opinion(again, just an opinion because I'm not a snake), snakes should not be cohabbed but my real point is that you cannot compare snake situations to human situations in ANY case. Snakes are not humans and vice versa. It's that whole apple and oranges argument.

 

[Shiari]

To the OP:

You do realise that by having 5 snakes in that one tank that you are basically giving each snake only 10 gallon's worth of floor space, right? Housing an adult corn in a 10 gallon tank is cruel. And larger tanks tend to have more height than floor space. If you're dead set on cohabbing 5 snakes, you should probably get at least a 250 gallon tank. Have fun shelling out near a thousand dollars for that when five 20 gallon tanks could cost you as little as $100 if you go to petco's $1/gallon sales.

 

[wstphal]

I have speculated on what kind of size range would be necessary to cohab with good comfort for the snakes involved, and concluded I'd need to take over a small room and build something like a zoo display, with many many hides and multiple warm spots at various temperatures, and enough of them at each temp that everyone could find a hide that was perfect both in size and in temperature. It might be kind of cool to build an enclosure that was 10 feet x 10 feet and landscaped with a real tree or two and so on, but wow! what a lot of work in order to cohab corns. Until and unless I have that kind of $$, I think I will stick with appropriately sized tubs & tanks for 1 snake and keep them 1 snake per enclosure except during hookups.

I can think of one kinda-exception to this rule. I gather that boas should be left together for a few days or more while mating, rather than separating after a couple of hours. They still should be separated for meals, from what I have read, and then once the female is gravid. But IF I understand my reading correctly, many BCI/BCC breeders carefully introduce the pair, supervising for the first while, then leave them alone overnight, checking on them daily, removing for meals as needed, until they have had enough time together to have a good chance the girl is gravid. Any boa breeders feel free to correct any misunderstandings on my part! But cohabbing for a few days while they are actively mating is still very different from year round cohabbing.

 

[sarae]

I don't cohab my snakes or my beardies... if someone were to get sick, i don't want to double my vet bills because I can't tell who it was (or because one got the other sick).
For me, there really are no benefits to keeping them together aside from having more space for more stuff. That and it seems like it's always an accident waiting to happen.

Working in a pet store, I often advise customers not to do something because of some negative possibility... and many times they respond with "Well, I did (x) once and everything was just fine!" or "(X) breeder keeps their animals this way and doesn't have any problems!"
My response to that is that my grandmother smokes 3 packs a day and has done so for the last 50+ years. She doesn't have lung cancer and she's still alive. I don't recommend that you, me, or someone else can start smoking like a freight train and not expect some repercussions somewhere down the line!

 

[Lennycorn]

My question to you Bsmith359 is how long have you been keeping snakes??

 

[bsmith359]

shaksnake :

My Normal Corn and Upper Keys Corn are only a few weeks apart. They are both about 1.5 years. the Hypo Moltly is about a year.

When the snakes grow up, I AM planning on getting a bigger enclosure.

If any of the snakes get sick, or start going under stress, I am prepared to buy a seprate enclosure for each snake if necisary.

I have to admit, I posted this thread only a few hours ago and I am suprised by how much attention it has gotton. I love reading other peoples opinions and views.

 

[quixoft]

People will think what they will. If you have success with it, great! I, personally, wouldn't cohab but that's just my opinion. I'm not a snake and no one else on this site is either. No matter what research is done, we will never know what is going on in those little heads of theirs. 95% may get stressed with cohabbing while the other 5% may thrive! Who really knows but the snakes themselves?

I'm of the opinion that dogs shouldn't be in crates for potty training and I don't like folks that leave their dogs outside at all times. But again, that's just my opinion and plenty of people have success doing things I disagree with so I would never bash them for it.

Whatever you do, just pay attention to your animals.

 

[bsmith359]

here is a photobucket link to my snakes and cage... http://s1116.photobucket.com/albums/k578/bsmith359/Corn Snakes/

 

[Shelliebear]

to the OP....are you REALLY going to pull out the "how humane is it to put them in a cage anyway" when you are guilty of it yourself?
Kinda sounds like the argument "Eating meat is bad...we weren't meant to do it." while you're eating a bacon cheeseburger at the same time. :/
It's hypocrisy.
Besides, if you know people on here are more than likely to get upset to you housing multiple corns in the same enclosure, then why post it here?
I could take several of my arguments to the people that disagree with me and try to argue it out, but I don't, because we will never see eye to eye.
Agree to disagree is my policy.
I don't house multiple corns together and I wouldn't ever. But clearly you think one way, and I think another.
Please don't rag on people for keeping animals in a cage because they disagree with you. PETA does that enough. :/
Your tank looks nice, but think about this: if you had 2 people in a house with you, would someone cluttering it up with junk and places to hide make it less obvious that they were there? I don't think it would. They're going to see each other at some point.
Just keep an eye on them is all you can do.

 

[WingedSweetheart]

When I was new to snakes and I seen that some people were co-habbing I thought that I'd try it too. But when I got my second snake and introduced the two they obviously did not want anything to do with one another. I had both snakes out at the same time. They sniffed each other and did a lot of tongue flicking at each other then they both turned tail and made bee lines in opposite directions (I tried a couple times after. Same thing). So I never put them together and now that I know more and know that it is possible for one to eat the other (both snakes normally die if same sized) I'm glad that I never did.

So all in all I don't see a single benefit to the animal. So there is no reason for me to do it.

 

[Jdog3131]

now befor anyone says anything I belive cohabing is very bad but...If you have a closet ad you fit it with everything a snake needs then put a million(or lesshides can't you coha 2.Now again I belive in not cohabing

 

[Susan]

They really need an edit button for our own posts....as far as early mating is the only reason i'd never do it. never in fear of them turning cannibalistic

Become a Contributing member and you will be able to edit your posts.

As for not fearing your snakes turning cannibalistic, have you seen this thread? - http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31192&highlight=cannibalism

I am against cohabitation. There are far to many risks versus benefits. I am, however, mildly guilty of temporarily cohabbing adults during brumation only. Due to area restrictions, I housed about 3-4 adults in each tub for brumation. It was always proven males together and proven females together, all of the same size range per tub. I did that 2 years in a row, but now that I have more room in a cool place to brumate them, they are all in individual tubs.

 

[bsmith359]

Intresting thread with the cannibalism.

but I have to ask the qustion...

How do we KNOW that snakes dont like people and other snakes? how do we KNOW for certain that snakes dont like to be around eachother and are solitary animals?

 

[Kronos]

to the OP....are you REALLY going to pull out the "how humane is it to put them in a cage anyway" when you are guilty of it yourself?
Kinda sounds like the argument "Eating meat is bad...we weren't meant to do it." while you're eating a bacon cheeseburger at the same time. :/
It's hypocrisy.
Besides, if you know people on here are more than likely to get upset to you housing multiple corns in the same enclosure, then why post it here?
Just because an opinion is contrary to the "majority" opinion is no reason why not to post. I, for one, enjoy hearing other viewpoints. In fact, to me the most interesting threads discuss ideas that go against the "majority". I like to hear from people use feed live prey, cohab, use alternate substrates, etc. Even the experts don't agree on many issues. I don't know why you would want to discourage a civil exchange of ideas.
I could take several of my arguments to the people that disagree with me and try to argue it out, but I don't, because we will never see eye to eye.
Agree to disagree is my policy.
The point here is not supposed to argue, but to DISCUSS different ideas. This should be ENCOURAGED.
I don't house multiple corns together and I wouldn't ever. But clearly you think one way, and I think another.
Please don't rag on people for keeping animals in a cage because they disagree with you. PETA does that enough. :/
If I recall, one poster accused him of being selfish. The point was that, hey, keeping wild animals in cages might be considered selfish, too. This shot at the OP seemed unworthy of people in this forum.
Your tank looks nice, but think about this: if you had 2 people in a house with you, would someone cluttering it up with junk and places to hide make it less obvious that they were there? I don't think it would. They're going to see each other at some point.
Just keep an eye on them is all you can do.

As I said in an earlier post, I don't cohab my snakes. But I also don't necessarily think it couldn't or shouldn't be done, depending on the individuals.

 

[bsmith359]

Thank you kronos. yea im not on here to argue. To be honest, I love hearing the differnt opinions.

 

[dickdeuel]

I have a question. Where do all you "EXPERIENCED" people with a total of one or maybe two snakes for at most a year or two get all this amazing knowledge in such a short period of time. Looks like regurgitated statements from equally inexperienced people to me.

Where do you get all these sick snakes you talk about. Did you buy them sick and not quarantine them? Is your husbandry that bad? I can't remember the last time I had a sick snake and it was probably a case of old age rather than a sickness. I don't keep my snake any differently then most on this forum but I do pay attention to details that are important.

I hope all those that are examining their snakes poop on a daily basis looking for some major calamity are having lots of fun.

 

[Kali]

here we go again.
Once more a difficult thread that seemed to go reasonably civil heading the other way.
Dick you might be right or not, but this was not nessecary. Did you believe your post to be constructive in any way?? Because I don't see it.

 

[bsmith359]

I have never had a sick snake...at least not that I know of. The poop and urine have always looked normal.

 

[wstphal]

I have a question. Where do all you "EXPERIENCED" people with a total of one or maybe two snakes for at most a year or two get all this amazing knowledge in such a short period of time. Looks like regurgitated statements from equally inexperienced people to me.

Seems to me that if n00bies like me follow the lead of Kathy Love & Rich Z we are following in good paths. Kathy doesn't recommend cohabbing. I think she would know.