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My heat mat had a roblem and got up to about 94F...

jessicalb

jessicalb

New member
The probes had been bumped out of place. :( :( :(

Mal was on aspen over the heat mat when I found the problem. What would it look like if he was burned? He seemed ok but he just ate yesterday so I didn't want to handle him too much.

Also, what are your strategies for making sure the probes don't wander and also avoiding putting something sticky where the snake can get into it?
 
It would look red like a sunburn.
BUT at 94 degrees and Mal being on the aspen should not of caused a burn. It would have to have gotten a lot hotter. Smigon uses a rock. Quick and simple :)
 
Corn snakes virtually never get burned. And the coolest heat mats run at about 100 degrees, many people run them without thermostats (don't recommend it, but in large cages, it's safe). If he was atop the heat mat, he wanted to get warm. I feel certain everything is fine.
 
Thanks guys. Once he has digested I will get in there with some hot glue and check for any discoloration. And buy the damn thermostat that you set, not the one that is just sort of relative. Changing it up because of the cold is what caused this to happen at all. Feeling the guilt. :/
 
As long as the cage doesn't overheat, you're fine. Spots can get quite hot, as long as there is a cooler place to move to.
69qqdy.jpg
 
Chip, I read your "study" on corn snakes and UTH's and also came to the same conclusion years ago. I like it when people back up their statements with actual trial and error. NICE !
 
No one can seem to burn a corn snake, and yet I've been reading for years that a 90 degree hot spot will burn them!
 
90 degrees on concrete, tile, or metal might. Aspen (wood in general) and air aren't exactly the fastest at transferring heat.
 
90 won't. Run some 90 degree water and put your hand in, doesn't even feel warm. I do agree that metal would burn tissue much, much faster than shredded wood, which would have slow heat transfer.
 
Not discounting Chip's study, and for that reason I would not panic if I found a UTH at 94F, I, myself, also wouldn't be comfortable with leaving it higher than 86-88F.

Here is some food for thought.

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Perception of Pain in Reptiles[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]©1999 Roger Klingenberg DVM, The Vivarium 10(4):45-49[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Reptiles Don't Feel Pain...Do They?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Perhaps veterinarians and health care scientists have created the perception that reptiles don't feel pain. Historically, we just threw the poor cold-blooded beasts into the refrigerator until they were immobile enough to work on. We deluded ourselves that since they didn't respond much, it must not hurt much. Lack of response is not the same thing as lack of pain. Refrigerating herps is a practice that we now realize to be barbaric and counter-productive - it should never be used. Indeed, we now keep reptiles very warm during surgery, playing the patient on recirculating heating pads for procedures and in warm incubators post-op. We want the reptile's physiological processes at their peak to optimize immune response, drug metabolism, and healing.

[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif] We don't know nearly enough about pain perception in reptiles. For instance, why is the incidence of thermal burns so high? Most reptile veterinarians have seen literally hundreds of third- and fourth-degree burns from malfunctioning hot rocks and poorly placed basking lights. One theory is that reptiles are so primitive that, by the time the burn is perceived, they don't know the appropriate response. While I don't like this theory, there are some components which may be accurate. To begin with, the reptile was able to perceive warmth as was attracted to the hot rock. Why then did it fail to perceive that the hot rock was becoming too hot? This is an alien thought for us, as we have a well-developed withdrawal reflex. If we touch anything perceived to be too hot, we withdraw immediately and reflexively, without further mental processing. This is such a strong reflex that you would be hard pressed to force yourself to touch such a hot object.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif] One theory is that the nerve endings (receptors) that are able to sense heat are different from those that sense pain. Perhaps the pain receptors are poorly developed because, during evolution, objects hot enough to burn are uncommon in the wild and such receptors therefore aren't needed. One would then lack a burn/pain withdrawal reflex.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif] Another theory is based more on learning than evolution. If the reptile doesn't associate touching an object with a certain response, perhaps it doesn't realize that moving will help. Perhaps this "learning association" theory is at work with ball pythons and boas that remain passive while a rodent perches on its coils and chews away at their flesh and bones. Could these snakes have learned that rodents are prey but don't associate them with pain?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif] There is a lot to learn but when all is said and done, we know that reptiles perceive pain. This is a given. What then can be done to control this pain?[/FONT]​
 
That's the vet that says to bash your snake's head with a hammer to euth, right?

Edited to add: I found this vet's practice and have sent him an email. I take extreme issue at his heinous recommendations for euthanization while calling freezing "barbaric," and am curious if his beliefs have changed in the last 15 years. If not, I will ask what he bases his findings on. Interestingly, he makes it a point to talk about all the burned reptiles he's seen over the years, so I have asked if any of them were a corn snake or other colubrid. I'm betting not, but I will let you all know what he says.
 
Hopefully he'll talk to me. I sent my phone number and email, and my letter was friendly and direct.

Having worked for a couple of vets, as well as gotten to know some professionally and personally since opening the store, the DVM letters after a name have become pretty meaningless to me. Some vets are amazing and spend tons of time learning long after receiving their degrees, others never grow, and only research when they must and then only to validate their own beliefs. This guy seems to be a current reptile keeper, and have a genuine interest. Perhaps he and I can have a conversation out of this, if it goes well enough I'll ask him to share his thoughts on the message board. That might be asking a bit much, but we'll see...
 
°90 is not that hot to humans, at all. A normal human body temp is °98.6! To a snake it feels warmer, not dangerously hot though, at all.
 
Ninety is miserable for me. Pretty much anything over 80 is uncomfortably hot if I am doing anything other than sitting still.
 
There was a post here once where the poster claimed that UTHs set over 95° will often cause the glass of the viv to shatter from the heat. I asked if, when drinking something out of a glass, does the glass shatter in her hand since your hand is usually around 98.6°?

You get your share of people on and off this board who just regurgitate the rhetoric they have heard once and believed it to be gospel without even thinking about it.
 
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