Serpwidgets
New member
Stripped kisatchie-keys-snow-butter-okattey? :sidestep:
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Mystery Ghost *female*
- Thread starter MichellesCreatures
- Start date
carol
Down with the sickness
News Flash!
Guess what???
I'm cleaning cages today while poping in and out of the forums. While I was cleaning I noticed that V is looking a bit plump, I put her in with Mama's Boy and they are hooked. Looks like even if no one else in this project carries this/these trait(s), I still have quite a chance of producing some in V's second clutch. :crazy02:
Guess what???
I'm cleaning cages today while poping in and out of the forums. While I was cleaning I noticed that V is looking a bit plump, I put her in with Mama's Boy and they are hooked. Looks like even if no one else in this project carries this/these trait(s), I still have quite a chance of producing some in V's second clutch. :crazy02:
carol
Down with the sickness
Serp...
Again cleaning cages, I pulled out M Twin the full male sibling that I bred to V for her for her first 05 clutch. I started counting saddles and he sports 57 saddles if you count all the way to his tippy tail. I still have not determinded if he is Hypo or just light due to the keys, but that doesn't matter I guess. Here is a baby pic of him.
I donno....I just went back and counted in person and it looks like all the f1's have 50+, are you only counting to the cloaca?
Again cleaning cages, I pulled out M Twin the full male sibling that I bred to V for her for her first 05 clutch. I started counting saddles and he sports 57 saddles if you count all the way to his tippy tail. I still have not determinded if he is Hypo or just light due to the keys, but that doesn't matter I guess. Here is a baby pic of him.
I donno....I just went back and counted in person and it looks like all the f1's have 50+, are you only counting to the cloaca?
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Serpwidgets
New member
You get a much bigger number if you count to the tippy tail. The reason I stop at the vent is this eliminates "miscounts" from missing tailtips. Also, it's much harder to find pics with the whole tail exposed to the camera, and a lot of them get zigzags and other anomolies on their tails making the count more difficult to determine.carol said:
On this one I got ~42 at the vent. BTW how is V related to everyone in the story?
(I'm guessing she's a poss het...)
carol
Down with the sickness
Sorry, "V" is just short for "V-Head" the mother of these two little ghosts, and again Mama's Boy is the father so needless to say I am happy she second clutched.
Looks like I may get to have my cake and eat it too, I got to test M Twin out for being a carrier in the first clutch, and hopefully make some more ghosts in the second clutch.
Looks like I may get to have my cake and eat it too, I got to test M Twin out for being a carrier in the first clutch, and hopefully make some more ghosts in the second clutch.
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peep_827
hehehe
So, a newb question here . . . do anerys typically have more saddles than other colors? And if so, why? When I got my ghosts I didn't even notice it, but hubby mentioned that my girl has a lot of saddles, I thought nothing of it tho. Now I'm curious. I can re-post a pic if you all want to see, in fact I'm gonna go count them now. LOL
carol
Down with the sickness
peep, no it is not normal for anerys to have more saddles. Thats why this is so interesting!
I could put you in line Traci, but be warned it is ever growing, so I probably won't fill it until 2006. Thats assuming that this end up being heritable. LOL :shrugs: So we will see.
If I am lucky and do hatch some this year, Clint will be first in line. I was unable to produce a male mate to go with his Hypo female from this line last year. I told him no worries, and promised he'd get to pick out the male of his choice from this years breedings. I'd be happy to oblige if he wanted one. :cheers:
I will have plenty of 50% and 66% possible hets though, again assuming it is a single recessive. And they're bound to be purdy.
I could put you in line Traci, but be warned it is ever growing, so I probably won't fill it until 2006. Thats assuming that this end up being heritable. LOL :shrugs: So we will see.
If I am lucky and do hatch some this year, Clint will be first in line. I was unable to produce a male mate to go with his Hypo female from this line last year. I told him no worries, and promised he'd get to pick out the male of his choice from this years breedings. I'd be happy to oblige if he wanted one. :cheers:
I will have plenty of 50% and 66% possible hets though, again assuming it is a single recessive. And they're bound to be purdy.
peep_827
hehehe
So what is it then?
What is the scoop with the saddles then?
My girl ghost has 47 to her tail tip, I'm going from the pic of her since she is still digesting. I will put it here for you all again, so you can see. It was pretty funny, when I got her hubby asked why she had so many and I said "huh"? I never gave it a 2nd thought. :shrugs:
What is the scoop with the saddles then?
My girl ghost has 47 to her tail tip, I'm going from the pic of her since she is still digesting. I will put it here for you all again, so you can see. It was pretty funny, when I got her hubby asked why she had so many and I said "huh"? I never gave it a 2nd thought. :shrugs:
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Vinman
Vinman
I dont know who is trying to start trouble between me and Don S.Let me say this right to everbody Last year I told in a few post that I heard Don S. crossed Emory in all his corn stock because it makes bigger babies and you get better feeders. I had talked to don on the phone and he told me that he did not cross emory in to his lines and he only did it twice and only has 2 corn crosses that he dont breed. I belive him and told him I was sorry. If I 'm not mistaken I think I posted a appolgy If not I told everybody in a post I talked to don and found out that it was not the truth. so cut the crap just because I pointed out that the pattren and the crown look like emoryi I also said that some mutations change color and pattren . I aslo posted that I talked to rich and he got the same mautant out of his pure rosys. all I did is point the pros and cons thank you
SODERBERGD
Active member
No problem. . .
Vinny,
I believe you. We got that problem fixed months ago. I just didn't want anyone out there misunderstanding my position on mixing the Emory's with other snakes. I do not do that. If anyone else sends me email that incriminates you, I'll confront you with it like I did this time.
Thanks, even though I'm sure we're on the wrong thread for this. Sorry folks.
Don
www.cornsnake.NET
Vinman said:
Vinny,
I believe you. We got that problem fixed months ago. I just didn't want anyone out there misunderstanding my position on mixing the Emory's with other snakes. I do not do that. If anyone else sends me email that incriminates you, I'll confront you with it like I did this time.
Thanks, even though I'm sure we're on the wrong thread for this. Sorry folks.
Don
www.cornsnake.NET
Vinman
Vinman
let me point this to everybody I don't care whos animals we are talking about as don pointed out before there a few spots that emoryi corn intergrades live. It would be impossable that none of those snakes every made it into the hobby. I'm sure that most corns in the hobby have a little of somthing else in their blood. I know that I seen with my own eyes in rage to see hybirds/ intergrades passed off as pure corns. too many times there is a corn that you cant identifiy . there has been a few on this board .I dont care , as far as I'm concerend nobody knows what is in their stock, that is all of us, that also inclueds me. I think that most corns are tanted in the hobby. This is why I have started to breed wild stock into all my lines over and over to purefiy my stock. Most of my stock is old but there is some newer stock I got from rich years back and we all know how fussy he is. Wether old or knew it could be anywhere from anybody
Joejr14
Grand Bubble Burster
Vinman said:
Relax Vin, nobody is trying to get you into trouble with Don. I emailed him about the other mystery ghost thread that Carol started and I also emailed him and let him know about this. I told him that the hybrid issue had popped up and I figured that he would want to know about it so he could squash that bug from his end of the parental stock.
Don will tell ya, he's pretty busy right now---without an email about this topic I dont think there would have been a response from Don---same with the other mystery ghost topic.
It was just an overall 'hey come look and respond, you're mentioned in this thread' email, not a specific 'someone is calling you a liar' email.
Vinman
Vinman
Joe thanx for comming clean don never said who told him so I made a open statement. I think that you will find that corns have a lot more emoryi than you think . also rosys have been crossed for years to. I dont care what the normclature of herps says I think rosys are a corn crossed to some extinct rat snake species or corn subspecies.
Joejr14
Grand Bubble Burster
Vinman said:
I dont dispute that at all. Isn't the common thought that Upper Keys are corn x everglades rat crosses? I mean, that would make sense just based upon the look of everglades rats and what one should look like when crossed with a corn.
I suppose there's really only one way to find that out. Get yourself some everglades rats and cross them to some miamis and see what happens.
Here's a picture of the everglades rat---looks awfully 'bloodred' to me.
SODERBERGD
Active member
bloods Vs everglades rats . . .
Sure is scary, isn't it? They both start out heavily blotched. Many of the bloods have the quadra linear stripes like some obsoleta rats. They both drastically change color from neonate to adult. They both have uncheckered bellies (not all bloodreds) and fading lateral patterns (if any). Of course, I refer to the yellow rats since the original bloodred stock is so far out of the everglade's range, but the parallels are impossible to ignore. No other corn morph does that metamorphic change so drastically. Few (if any) other corn morphs show phenotypic markers in the F1s like the bloods. If we look more closely at some of the physiological distinctions of these species, we might even see other parallels. I haven't looked closely at scale size, shape and texture. Anyway, if we start doubting the purity of some of these oddballs that show up now and then, consider how much bloods behave like the yellow rats. I don't think we'd have to stretch our imaginations to presume that 500,000 years ago, perhaps none of the serpents today even existed. Not in color and patten anyway. Selective breeding isn't limited to the same species. A hybrid can give rise to the next successful serpent out there in situations of climatic change. These "freaks" we see occasionally could be throwbacks to those times, but we'll probably never know now that the human element is poluting the equation.
Joejr14 said:I dont dispute that at all. Isn't the common thought that Upper Keys are corn x everglades rat crosses? I mean, that would make sense just based upon the look of everglades rats and what one should look like when crossed with a corn.
I suppose there's really only one way to find that out. Get yourself some everglades rats and cross them to some miamis and see what happens.
Here's a picture of the everglades rat---looks awfully 'bloodred' to me.
Sure is scary, isn't it? They both start out heavily blotched. Many of the bloods have the quadra linear stripes like some obsoleta rats. They both drastically change color from neonate to adult. They both have uncheckered bellies (not all bloodreds) and fading lateral patterns (if any). Of course, I refer to the yellow rats since the original bloodred stock is so far out of the everglade's range, but the parallels are impossible to ignore. No other corn morph does that metamorphic change so drastically. Few (if any) other corn morphs show phenotypic markers in the F1s like the bloods. If we look more closely at some of the physiological distinctions of these species, we might even see other parallels. I haven't looked closely at scale size, shape and texture. Anyway, if we start doubting the purity of some of these oddballs that show up now and then, consider how much bloods behave like the yellow rats. I don't think we'd have to stretch our imaginations to presume that 500,000 years ago, perhaps none of the serpents today even existed. Not in color and patten anyway. Selective breeding isn't limited to the same species. A hybrid can give rise to the next successful serpent out there in situations of climatic change. These "freaks" we see occasionally could be throwbacks to those times, but we'll probably never know now that the human element is poluting the equation.
Kevin S.
Active member
maybe I'm missing the big picture
I might be out in left field, but if the original bloodreds were glades rat/corn hybrids wouldn't they look like normal corns after so much breeding back to them? All the outcrossing has changed coloration but the patterning effect remains the same (to my knowledge). Wouldn't the reduced pattern effect be minimal by now if that was an effect of the glades influence?
I might be out in left field, but if the original bloodreds were glades rat/corn hybrids wouldn't they look like normal corns after so much breeding back to them? All the outcrossing has changed coloration but the patterning effect remains the same (to my knowledge). Wouldn't the reduced pattern effect be minimal by now if that was an effect of the glades influence?