New Kingsnakes...Albino Brooksi or Floridana?

[Susielea]

Well it looks like I've been bitten by the Kingsnake bug as well now and I just couldn't resist these two today, I think they are beautiful!

Only thing is, and this is probably going to sound real stupid but anyway, I'm seeing quite few photos on line that look almost exactly the same, listed as Albino Brooksi and Albino Floridana and even read one article that said Brooksi is no longer catergorised as seperate from Floridana. I think their head markings look most like the few pics I've seen of Brooksi but I'm no expert, so if anyone with more experience would like to pass judgement on what they think is the correct sub-species? and if they are still distinctly seperate, then please I welcome your opinion

Here we go with the pics, male first. The female will be in the next post, so please wait a few minutes before posting

 

[Susielea]

And here's the female, who is in blue at the moment and was doing a pretty good impersonation of a Ball Python to start with, so I'm sorry the pics are not that great. Looking back at the males pics he might also be just in, or coming out of blue too....hmmmm

 

[Nanci]

I can't tell what morph they are. My understanding of brooksi is some consider it a sub-species. Some consider it a color variation, perhaps specific to a locality. I do not know what the "official" scientific ruling is, today. I, myself, would not call it a subspecies. I would ask Chris, actually, what his thoughts are. My Big Jake is a brooksi-type, which is a bright, clean, more yellow and less black normal. To me. Chris could for sure tell you the morph.

Pretty babies!! You're going to love them!!

 

[Susielea]

Thanks Nanci, I can't wait to watch them grow and change! I think seeing pics of your guys is what sent me down the Kingsnake path, so Ron is blaming you, in a nice way though. He's pretty taken with them as well!

 

[CrazyCorn]

Brooksi were once thought to be a sub species but have since been lumped together within the subspecies Floridana. Brooksi are known for their bright White/Gold color and traditionally occur well south of lake Okeechobee. When someone advertises a snake as an 'Albino Brooksi' they are simply referring to the color of the parents or their lineage. Be aware though a lot of people misrepresent the Brooksi/Floridana that they sell so only time will tell if it shows the classic Brooksi coloration. With that said yours show indications of Brooksi with the lighter than normal lavender saddles and lots of red around the sides. Congrats on picking up some awesome kings.

 

[Eriathiel]

How beautiful! I love the little bits of orange in her. Congrats!

 

[Kokopelli]

very cute, are you sure about the morph categorization though? Their eyes look as though they have some melanin there, and they look just like lavender albinos- which are basically a T+ form of albino in these guys.

 

[tyflier]

They look like Brooksi, to me. As far as I know, Broksi is only a locality designation at this point.

As for the morphs, they appear to have the "jelly" albino gene. There are 3 or 4 different albino genes in floridana, and each one is highly variable. Most of them are T+, to different degrees. "Peanut Butter" and "Jelly" are two of the lavendar-looking, T+ albino genes, and this appears to be of that variety.

It's really difficult to say for sure without confirmation from the breeder. One word of caution...these different albino genes are not related, to my knowledge, which means if they aren't the same albino gene, you will get normal babies, only. I could be wrong on some of this as I haven't kept up with them the way I should have, so verify and double-check, if possible.

 

[Susielea]

Brooksi were once thought to be a sub species but have since been lumped together within the subspecies Floridana. Brooksi are known for their bright White/Gold color and traditionally occur well south of lake Okeechobee. When someone advertises a snake as an 'Albino Brooksi' they are simply referring to the color of the parents or their lineage. Be aware though a lot of people misrepresent the Brooksi/Floridana that they sell so only time will tell if it shows the classic Brooksi coloration. With that said yours show indications of Brooksi with the lighter than normal lavender saddles and lots of red around the sides. Congrats on picking up some awesome kings.

That was very informative, thank you very much and thank you for the compliment too!

How beautiful! I love the little bits of orange in her. Congrats!

I know, I'm hoping that this colouring might intensify with age, but who knows, I think they're gorgeous either way

very cute, are you sure about the morph categorization though? Their eyes look as though they have some melanin there, and they look just like lavender albinos- which are basically a T+ form of albino in these guys.

Ahh, I did see something about T+ albino when googling, I'll have to have another search and see if that pulls up any more info, thank you Oren for giving me more food for thought

They look like Brooksi, to me. As far as I know, Broksi is only a locality designation at this point.

As for the morphs, they appear to have the "jelly" albino gene. There are 3 or 4 different albino genes in floridana, and each one is highly variable. Most of them are T+, to different degrees. "Peanut Butter" and "Jelly" are two of the lavendar-looking, T+ albino genes, and this appears to be of that variety.

It's really difficult to say for sure without confirmation from the breeder. One word of caution...these different albino genes are not related, to my knowledge, which means if they aren't the same albino gene, you will get normal babies, only. I could be wrong on some of this as I haven't kept up with them the way I should have, so verify and double-check, if possible.

Thank you Chris, that also gives me some more food for thought and some more search terms to put into the google machine

I will see if there is any more info I can get from the source, as I didn't realise there were so many different types of albino in the Floridana. I was just so excited to get hold of a pair my mind went totally blank on what I should have been asking, although I did get the impression that they may be siblings so the different non-compatible albino genes hopefully won't be a problem

If they did turn out to be not related and have non-compatible albino genes, would that mean that any offspring would be het for each version of albino, like with corns, or does it work differently in kingsnakes???

 

[tyflier]

The genetics work exactly the same, and yes, all the babies would be double-het. However, if you have compatible albino genes, your babies will all be albino.

 

[CaptBogart]

They look like Brooksi, to me. As far as I know, Broksi is only a locality designation at this point.

As for the morphs, they appear to have the "jelly" albino gene. There are 3 or 4 different albino genes in floridana, and each one is highly variable. Most of them are T+, to different degrees. "Peanut Butter" and "Jelly" are two of the lavendar-looking, T+ albino genes, and this appears to be of that variety.

It's really difficult to say for sure without confirmation from the breeder. One word of caution...these different albino genes are not related, to my knowledge, which means if they aren't the same albino gene, you will get normal babies, only. I could be wrong on some of this as I haven't kept up with them the way I should have, so verify and double-check, if possible.

That was very informative, thank you very much and thank you for the compliment too!



I know, I'm hoping that this colouring might intensify with age, but who knows, I think they're gorgeous either way



Ahh, I did see something about T+ albino when googling, I'll have to have another search and see if that pulls up any more info, thank you Oren for giving me more food for thought



Thank you Chris, that also gives me some more food for thought and some more search terms to put into the google machine

I will see if there is any more info I can get from the source, as I didn't realise there were so many different types of albino in the Floridana. I was just so excited to get hold of a pair my mind went totally blank on what I should have been asking, although I did get the impression that they may be siblings so the different non-compatible albino genes hopefully won't be a problem

If they did turn out to be not related and have non-compatible albino genes, would that mean that any offspring would be het for each version of albino, like with corns, or does it work differently in kingsnakes???

Nice Sue!
I think the female is actually a Lavender Albino... I have a few that were purchased as Brooksi in the mix, but I just label them as Florida Kings.
The Jelly is still very rare, and this is what my boy looked like as a hatchling. His lineage includes Lavender, Hypo, Peanut Butter, and Jelly, so until he's old enough to breed, I won't know exactly what he is, other than Albino, lol....

 

[tyflier]

Nice Sue!
I think the female is actually a Lavender Albino... I have a few that were purchased as Brooksi in the mix, but I just label them as Florida Kings.
The Jelly is still very rare, and this is what my boy looked like as a hatchling. His lineage includes Lavender, Hypo, Peanut Butter, and Jelly, so until he's old enough to breed, I won't know exactly what he is, other than Albino, lol....

Wait until she gets hooked, and starts collecting all the albino and hypo varieties... You can go crazy trying to keep up with the brooksi morphs...

 

[CaptBogart]

Wait until she gets hooked, and starts collecting all the albino and hypo varieties... You can go crazy trying to keep up with the brooksi morphs...

Lol, tell me about it! I was hoping to produce some High Orange Hypo's this year, and to see what other secret genes they might have, but the female wasn't having it, so another year wait...

 

[tyflier]

Lol, tell me about it! I was hoping to produce some High Orange Hypo's this year, and to see what other secret genes they might have, but the female wasn't having it, so another year wait...

I just sold a pair of Hypo Flames that I picked up 2 years ago. I thinned out the collection by a HUGE amount, but those brooksi genetics keep calling me back...

Of course...than you've got to add whiteside to everything...:dancer::crazy02:

 

[CaptBogart]

I just sold a pair of Hypo Flames that I picked up 2 years ago. I thinned out the collection by a HUGE amount, but those brooksi genetics keep calling me back...

Of course...than you've got to add whiteside to everything...:dancer::crazy02:

LOL! Yeah, if Nanci's Whitesided was a male, I would have been begging her to let me use it... Now I'll have to wait for one of my males to get large enough to take on that big girl of hers, then beg her for a loan, lol. I thought about getting Flames a couple Daytona's ago, but thought I might lose my Orange to it, or dilute the red of the Flames, so passed on that. Here's the guy I talk to at Daytona every year, Check out these morphs!

 

[Susielea]

Nice Sue!
I think the female is actually a Lavender Albino... I have a few that were purchased as Brooksi in the mix, but I just label them as Florida Kings.
The Jelly is still very rare, and this is what my boy looked like as a hatchling. His lineage includes Lavender, Hypo, Peanut Butter, and Jelly, so until he's old enough to breed, I won't know exactly what he is, other than Albino, lol....

I knew I'd seen you post this boy before, but I couldn't remember what he was. He's gorgeous!

I haven't been able to get any more info from the supplier as yet and the female still hasn't shed, but she does have orangey/red irises with ruby pupils and a gentle wash of orangey/red colour on a couple of her saddles, as well as the orangey colour along her sides. The boy has yellow irises with ruby pupils and a paler orange along his sides, but none that I can see on his saddles. I really don't know if that means anything other than that it makes them beautiful......lol...

Wait until she gets hooked, and starts collecting all the albino and hypo varieties... You can go crazy trying to keep up with the brooksi morphs...

Oh now don't you worry Chris, these guys have got me, hook, line and sinker :laugh:

Oh and Joe, I found the bluerosy.com site the other day and it had me drooling!

 

[The_Thunderer]

Hey, Sue!!! You've got a BEAUTIFUL pair of snakes there! Congrats!!! I've always wanted more brooksi/goini - anything Floridana. LOL. As I told Joe, perhaps some time in the future.

They're lovely and I look forward to seeing more and more of them as they grow!