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Occupy Wall Street protest

tsst said:
Nearly 2.3 million have seen the video of the awful atrocities perpetrated by the police at UC Davis.


... but somehow less than 30,000 have seen the video right before that where the police were surrounded and detained by the occupiers … who then made demands for their release ... they were told that use of force would happen when transport arrived if the individuals did not clear a path... hmmmm maybe the police were not the awful ones in this case?!?!
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I hadn't seen the video before your right but it doesn't change that much I don't think the use of pepper spray was warranted. The protesters weren't being violent. I am not sure exactly what the police's objectives were but if people were breaking the law just arrest them. If someone is resisting arrest then use reasonable force to arrest them. That means that if the protesters were just sitting there breaking them off one at a time using a few cops and putting them under arrest. If the cops just wanted to leave the area just leave if someone is preventing you from leaving again use reasonable force. It didn't look like the police where making much effort to either leave or arrest those people. I mean of course they aren't going to move their protesting but take a couple officers and start physically moving people then if things get violent like they might then use force.
 
Theoretical question. What do you think would happen if there was a law that made it to where every job got paid the same amount of money an hour except for dangerous jobs that risk your life. What if no matter if you ran your own business or worked for someone else you got paid the same. What if higher education was free no matter what you wanted to do and acceptance into universities was based solely on academic performance and not at all on ability to pay.

Personally I think that everything would be better. I think people would move to jobs that make them happy. Of course a job would have to be available for a person to have. I'm not talking about everyone getting their dream job if there is no demand for it but a person who is lazy and not very motivated and doesn't want to go through a lot of training and wants low stress could go for a fast food job or as a garbage man and people who want to help others would go into health or education professions and I feel that most people more than now would be able to fill their place in life with an over all good standard of living. Let me know what you think.
 
willderphil said:
Theoretical question. What do you think would happen if there was a law that made it to where every job got paid the same amount of money an hour except for dangerous jobs that risk your life. What if no matter if you ran your own business or worked for someone else you got paid the same. What if higher education was free no matter what you wanted to do and acceptance into universities was based solely on academic performance and not at all on ability to pay.

Personally I think that everything would be better. I think people would move to jobs that make them happy. Of course a job would have to be available for a person to have. I'm not talking about everyone getting their dream job if there is no demand for it but a person who is lazy and not very motivated and doesn't want to go through a lot of training and wants low stress could go for a fast food job or as a garbage man and people who want to help others would go into health or education professions and I feel that most people more than now would be able to fill their place in life with an over all good standard of living. Let me know what you think.
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I think that is a horrible idea. Why risk your own money creating a new product, or inventing something, or starting up a new business if everyone else makes the same as you? Why excell? Why even try?
 
Something else that might work to bring real change to the country is getting rid of the legislature and having people directly vote on everything. Make it to where anyone can introduce legislation by getting enough signatures and then have the public vote. True direct democracy can probably be done in todays time. I think with the removal of the legislature the presidents power should be also greatly reduced to maybe being commander and chief maybe. Also maybe the president would be the person creating foreign relationships on behalf of the people in a manner acceptable to the people.
 
willderphil said:
Something else that might work to bring real change to the country is getting rid of the legislature and having people directly vote on everything. Make it to where anyone can introduce legislation by getting enough signatures and then have the public vote. True direct democracy can probably be done in todays time. I think with the removal of the legislature the presidents power should be also greatly reduced to maybe being commander and chief maybe. Also maybe the president would be the person creating foreign relationships on behalf of the people in a manner acceptable to the people.
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No offense, but I think you need a civics lession....or 2.
 
starsevol said:
I think that is a horrible idea. Why risk your own money creating a new product, or inventing something, or starting up a new business if everyone else makes the same as you? Why excell? Why even try?
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Because humans like to excel and learning new things and inventing new things and making things better. I don't remember where I heard this but companies a while ago noticed that employees in places where people make software or similar things were spending a lot of their own time making something for free for other people to use for free just because they wanted to do something that they were passionate about. Since finding this out some companies have started giving employees paid free time to be creative and the only stipulation is they share whatever they make or think of with the company afterwards that way the company can make money on their ideas.
 
willderphil said:
Because humans like to excel and learning new things and inventing new things and making things better. I don't remember where I heard this but companies a while ago noticed that employees in places where people make software or similar things were spending a lot of their own time making something for free for other people to use for free just because they wanted to do something that they were passionate about. Since finding this out some companies have started giving employees paid free time to be creative and the only stipulation is they share whatever they make or think of with the company afterwards that way the company can make money on their ideas.
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It won't work. People like to be paid for what they do, and if they are very very good at what they do, why should they be paid the same as someone who is not?If you know that you will get X dollars an hour, no matter what, why try?
Your idea has already been tried, and has proven to be a massive failure.
 
starsevol said:
It won't work. People like to be paid for what they do, and if they are very very good at what they do, why should they be paid the same as someone who is not?If you know that you will get X dollars an hour, no matter what, why try?
Your idea has already been tried, and has proven to be a massive failure.
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Cause you love what you do that's why you try. Cause you can fired from your job still and not make anything. Those seem like pretty good reasons to me.
 
starsevol said:
It won't work. People like to be paid for what they do, and if they are very very good at what they do, why should they be paid the same as someone who is not?If you know that you will get X dollars an hour, no matter what, why try?
Your idea has already been tried, and has proven to be a massive failure.
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are you saying the only reason you do your job well is for the money. Well maybe you don't like your job. If you were doing a job that you were enthusiastic about wouldn't you want to do your job well.
I am going to school to be a teacher and it's not for the money or because I got a degree in something else and then just fell back on teaching. I want to be the best teacher I can be.
 
I think that maybe I have a postive outlook on the human race and that people want to do good and work hard on the things they love. I know some people on here care for a ton of snakes all by themselves but it something they love so they do it and they do it well and I would wager that most of them do it at a cost of money to themselves.
 
MOST people don't like their jobs.
Paying everyone the same kills incentive, kills creativity, and has failed every time it's been tried.
 
What you are suggesting is socialism.
I will bet that you are very young, idealistic, liberal and have trouble seeing the big picture.
 
starsevol said:
MOST people don't like their jobs.
Paying everyone the same kills incentive, kills creativity, and has failed every time it's been tried.
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I feel that most people hate their jobs because they do it for the money take away the money aspect and people will gravitate to what they like and still being able to be fired from a job is incentive enough for people to find work. If they don't do good work they get fired and make no money.
 
No, people learn to hate their jobs money notwithstanding.
I have a great job, but after 25 years I am tired of it.

You need to read the Constitution.
 
starsevol said:
What you are suggesting is socialism.
I will bet that you are very young, idealistic, liberal and have trouble seeing the big picture.
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your right I am young, idealistic, and liberal and if im not seeing the big picture your not really helping me any. Just so you know I have also been poor all my life at one point when still living with my parents my family became homeless while my dad was still working my mom had been a stay at home mom before that. In fact struggling with my wife right now is probably the best I've ever been and we make a combined around 30,000 a year and we have two kids renting our home for $850 a month. That alone takes a third of our income. Like I said I'm going to school to try and become a teacher and make our lives better but I think there needs to be some kind of change to make the lives of people in similar situations as I had growing up better.
 
starsevol said:
No, people learn to hate their jobs money notwithstanding.
I have a great job, but after 25 years I am tired of it.

You need to read the Constitution.
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Then why don't you get a new job that you love? If people all got paid the same it would be pretty easy for a person to change jobs and not have to worry about a pay cut. Also like I said you can still get fired for performing poorly so if you get get tired of your job and start performing poorly then you will get fired. Or you can choose to take on another job. It doesn't seem that complicated to me but like you said maybe im too idealistic. I just have faith in the human population to collectively do well. I'm not saying that in this world of mine where everyone gets paid the same that everyone would be productive. Some people may decide to be a homemaker or be homeless and not work or whatever but overall I think that people would do well and what is right.
 
starsevol said:
What you are suggesting is socialism.
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Actually I think what I am suggesting is more along the lines of communism but just the economic part of it and in a way that I think would be able to succeed. That said I haven't studied how the soviet union did it extensivley but i know that they were not industrialized, that the government dictated where you worked and what was made and how much and i know that the quality of products greatly suffered. I know that the way the government made there be restrictions too on the amount of things that you can have and you didn't buy them so much as the government handed them out. so it seems a whole lot different then what I am proposing at least to me but also similar in some respects.

I did put these up here as a kind of brainstorming that's why I put up multiple and you haven't responded to the one where I talk about a maximum wage for CEO's based on employees pay. I want to know what you think about that one.
 
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