OMG OMG PLEASE HELP!!!

[Karl_Mcknight]

</Rant ON>

Recently there have been several posts that begin sort of like the Title of this Post, and then you offer the person help and all they want to do is 1). Ignore you, 2). Argue with you or 3). Call you names.

Let's be perfectly clear - I care about my corn snake and do the best I can to keep him safe, comfortable and healthy, and I will gladly do what I can to offer my help to anyone who wants it. That's (One) of the reasons I joined this message forum. I care about the snake(s) (and most other animals for that matter), but please don't ask me to Care about the Idiot that is tormenting the animal. I can't and won't do that.

There are some folks (many as a matter of fact) that run out and buy a snake on a Whim because they think "It would be so cool" to have a snake, or they want something different than a dog, etc...

But they don't bother to do the Homework, Investigating, and Preliminary stuff first. Then they have this snake that is suffering and they don't know what to do and they end up here asking for help.

Ok I'm gonna say it - "Some folks should just stick with a 2 dollar Goldfish and they can flush it in 3 days when it dies. They have no business keeping a pet snake."

Ok I feel better already.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have began taking names, yup, that's right, taking names of the people that post silly threads, or want to argue, or who lash out and call you names after you've offered them help, and I'm just not going to respond to these people anymore.

Recently there have been numerous posts from people whose snake(s) regurgitates after every time it eats, another person whose snake is being kept in a 95 degree cage because she's too stupid to hook up a thermostat and calls me "Rude" after I suggest she do so.

My snake is doing very well thank you, so if your's isn't, well gee, What can I say.

</ Rant OFF>

 

[Nanci]

I know how you feel. At least, hopefully, other newbies reading the help will benefit, even if the OP does not.

 

[HerpsOfNM]

If i recall you can block members within your user cp, you simply end up not seeing their posts.

As for that $2 goldfish....if properly cared for they can live just as long as our wonderful corn snakes.

Edit.... User cp --> settings & options --> edit ignore list.

THANKFULLY, my experience within the cornsnake community has been extremely positive and virtually drama free. However, my origins within the herp morph world begins within the leopard gecko community, and honesty, they be crazy.

 

[hypnoctopus]

I tend to find that the old adage is usually true - "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Now, I haven't been very active on the forum lately, so I haven't seen the specific threads you're talking about, but people usually are more willing to take your advice if you address them with respect and kindness. A lot of the time, you'll see the same types of threads get posted - often by a person who bought a snake without reading up on it first. It can be hard to not get frustrated when you feel like you've answered those same simple questions many times previously, but the person posting that thread does not know that that question has been posted plenty of times already and letting your frustration show when you're answering will just turn that person away from the forum. I would much rather just answer the question, try to help the person without making them feel bad, and then hopefully they'll stick around and learn some more.

If your way of dealing with people who post threads that annoy you is to not reply to them, I think that's a much better option than responding to them in an irritated manner. One of the great things about the internet is that you can take a step back before you hit that reply button and review your tone and message.

 

[Karl_Mcknight]

If i recall you can block members within your user cp, you simply end up not seeing their posts.

As for that $2 goldfish....if properly cared for they can live just as long as our wonderful corn snakes.

Not if some of these folks own it

 

[DLena]

Karl, I hope you keep giving advice. I'm learning a lot from you... Not just from your actual instructions, but also your chats about Rufus...like taking him for walks, or letting him in your hair... You give great ideas and food for thought. I get really frustrated, too, especially when I worry someone is going to bake the brains right out of her snake. I'd have driven to her house and fixed her setup if it was possible to do so. Seriously. For free. <3

 

[DollysMom]

I definitely need you and Rufus to stick around, Karl.

I know it's difficult when someone is given information to solve a problem and ignores it or seems not to do any studying or reading on their own. The umpteenth time I've answered the same question I kind of wonder if the search button is still working or if the stickies have all gone missing! Search is more of an art than a science sometimes, but the stickies are there for a reason.

And of course you've seen me get a little testy lately at people hijacking the threads of others to ask their questions instead of starting their own threads. That's my personal bugaboo. Once is an accident, but after they've been told, some of them persist! Poor Nicole has been hit several times with that lately!

So Karl, I completely understand your frustration.

And DLena, I'm with you. There are some I just wish is could go there and fix it. There have been some I've gone so far as to look up and link to their local herpetological societies and told them to call and get some local help.

 

[Karl_Mcknight]

If i recall you can block members within your user cp, you simply end up not seeing their posts.

As for that $2 goldfish....if properly cared for they can live just as long as our wonderful corn snakes.

Edit.... User cp --> settings & options --> edit ignore list.

THANKFULLY, my experience within the cornsnake community has been extremely positive and virtually drama free. However, my origins within the herp morph world begins within the leopard gecko community, and honesty, they be crazy.

I never knew about the "Blocking Users" before. Thanks for that info!

 

[axis1]

Well Said Karl!!

Bravo!!

I happen to agree with everything Karl said in the opening of this thread! People who think Taco Bell is a Mexican phone company should NOT be in charge of ANY snake's life, as these precious animals depend upon us for every aspect of their existences! They are just TOO precious, in my opinion, to have to depend upon someone who either got tired of caring for them or who never had any intention of making the necessary investment & commitment necessary in order to provide an optimal quality of life to one of God's most beautiful creations. There is way too much cruelty to animals and while people go to jail and prison for things like doing drugs and hurting themselves, those who neglect, mistreat, and abuse animals almost always go on their way with no consequences at all!

That being said, this being a forum with a very significant number of registered and other members lurking about, there is always going to be a certain number of folks who are going to irritate us in one way or another. While I may have more patience than Karl in dealing with a person who acts like they are a small, adorable child (we actually have no idea if that person is in their fifties, FAT and balding with no EARS!!), sometimes I do feel like taking a page from his playbook and telling someone to simply GET WITH IT or GET THE HELL OUT, though I've not seen him actually say that.

The ability to block someone may actually work for some and it's probably a good option to have. I guess I'm alright dealing with the shortcomings of some limited individuals, though I personally wish their were some more leverage in the laws of the land to ensure the protection of animals who are at the mercy of us humans!!

Just sayin'. :crazy02:

 

[Nanci]

I tend to find that the old adage is usually true - "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Now, I haven't been very active on the forum lately, so I haven't seen the specific threads you're talking about, but people usually are more willing to take your advice if you address them with respect and kindness. A lot of the time, you'll see the same types of threads get posted - often by a person who bought a snake without reading up on it first. It can be hard to not get frustrated when you feel like you've answered those same simple questions many times previously, but the person posting that thread does not know that that question has been posted plenty of times already and letting your frustration show when you're answering will just turn that person away from the forum. I would much rather just answer the question, try to help the person without making them feel bad, and then hopefully they'll stick around and learn some more.

If your way of dealing with people who post threads that annoy you is to not reply to them, I think that's a much better option than responding to them in an irritated manner. One of the great things about the internet is that you can take a step back before you hit that reply button and review your tone and message.

You ought to hang out more! Make Cornsnakes Great Again!!!

I've never seen Karl make a mean-spirited post. I usually read his posts and think, I have nothing to add.

Honey vs vinegar: sometimes you just can't shut up!! By you, I mean me. Talking to a certain person about free-handling venomous. But geez, every time some dumbass gets bit, that just adds more fuel to the fire of snake restrictions/bans/and the general public hating snakes.

Look at Florida now- two people have cobra escapes, don't follow the rules regarding escapes, and now venomous regulations are in a shiz storm. Those people with the burm or relic, I forget, that were keeping it in a tank with a burlap sack for a cover, that were starving it, so it escapes and kills their toddler- no more big snakes for anyone in FL without a TON of work. ONE person can ruin it for everyone.

/unrelated rant

 

[DLena]

Actually Nanci, it's not unrelated and your point is dead on... How many dead from neglect or ignorant-owner injuries to corns can hit media sites, especially photo sites, before the laws of the land are turned toward us? The majority of pet animal aggressions on people and pet injuries are the result of the people around them. People need to have an idea about their animals and be willing to learn more and respond responsibly. If you aren't able to read and understand the care book FIRST, if you can't buy all the necessary supplies SECOND, if you can't set it all up THIRD and get the snake FOURTH, then don't do it at all. Look at New Jersey: theoretically good law to protect the very limited indigenous population - only red-eyed corns in captivity. Darn good thing DollysMom doesn't live there, or Mandy would be SOL. We don't want the snakes hurt, we don't want to be judged by the actions of a few, and sometimes it's hard to be unendingly calm and patient and circumspect when doom is looming on the horizon. Direct, to the point instruction is sometimes needed. Sorry for the rant.

 

[axis1]

You ought to hang out more! Make Cornsnakes Great Again!!!

I've never seen Karl make a mean-spirited post. I usually read his posts and think, I have nothing to add.

Honey vs vinegar: sometimes you just can't shut up!! By you, I mean me. Talking to a certain person about free-handling venomous. But geez, every time some dumbass gets bit, that just adds more fuel to the fire of snake restrictions/bans/and the general public hating snakes.

Look at Florida now- two people have cobra escapes, don't follow the rules regarding escapes, and now venomous regulations are in a shiz storm. Those people with the burm or relic, I forget, that were keeping it in a tank with a burlap sack for a cover, that were starving it, so it escapes and kills their toddler- no more big snakes for anyone in FL without a TON of work. ONE person can ruin it for everyone.

/unrelated rant

S'Ok to have some unrelated rants, no? (If not, I'm in TROUBLE!! Ha Ha!:crazy01

But back to the topic: Whether or not anyone posts a mean-spirited post (or two!), this is a "forum," no? And with the sheer number of registered users or members who have the ability to post anything, you will have a certain number of people who will just let their a** hang out, by virtue of the fact that they are human. I don't agree with, or even like, many of the posts I see or sometimes advice given. But if I agreed with or liked most of the posts I saw, I think that I would eventually get bored and leave. It's the human component - or the part of the human personality that is unpredictable or random, that I believe, keeps me interested and coming back.

Hey, I am a bona fide adrenaline junkie! I skydive (since 1995) every other weekend during the summers and am a long distance runner who's completed 6 NYC Marathons (all while having been a smoker for over 40 years - I have only recently quit, in 2012!). I'm in my 50's and have NOT slowed down at ALL! It takes a LOT to keep me interested. Need I say more? I don't wanna come to a place where I'm gonna agree or like everything I see. But in this case, the initial point Karl makes in this thread, I piped in because I do happen to agree that there are a certain amount of individuals who do annoy me and for the same reasons they irk Karl. Just sayin'.

And ditto Nanci!! MCGA!! Make Cornsnakes Great Again! :crazy02:

 

[HerpsOfNM]

Everyone's made valid, and at times excellent points, so far in replies. I WAS going to actually load up word, make an outline of points, and go for broke on a TL;DR reply. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get my thoughts fully onboard with one another to really make anything cohesive. Instead, some food for thought aspects:

1. We keep a beginner reptile (snake) species, as such, we as a community are doomed to repeatedly encounter "beginner" questions, ignorance, and naiveté, individuals that are headstrong, unwilling to think outside the box, or even incapable of thinking within the box. You think forums are bad (at they can be due to anonymity of the user), try working at any retail pet store, especially the likes of Petco or PetSmart. At the end of the day though, we were all once beginners at something/everything.
   
   
2. In respect to the community as Cornsnakes.com, we are a forum. Short of Mr. Webslave/Serpenco/Voluntary has-been/RichZ having the server/hard drives crash, EVERYTHING is archived, be it within the vastness of the forum/server or via google caching/archiving. Thus everything is searchable, so long as you know the keywords to search for it. Sometimes I even don't, thus I become part of the problem of #1 above sometimes - it happens to the best of us.
   
3. In respect to the community as Cornsnakes.com, we ARE NOT facebook! One of the plethora of reasons I deactivated my FB years ago is due to the sheer overabundance of ignorance, perpetuation of ignorance, false claims (death hoaxes and the likes that even EDUCATED people I know believe), and overall misinformation posted, be it from politics to what temperature to house a corn snake. Additionally, valid, bona fide, excellent information easily vanishes just as quickly as it was posted on FB. Nevermind when said information is in response to mis- or malinformation and it only receives an up vote or 3, while stupid receives hundreds (should tell you something about us as a society/nation).
   
   
4. You can't fix stupid, but you can try to steer it in the right direction in hopes of stupid, itself and itself alone, correcting stupid. Sometimes it does, and other times stupid repeats history.... I'm just as guilty at doing this in life, knowingly or unknowingly (aka too little too late).
   
   
5. Thank you Hurricane Andrew and irresponsible exotic pet owners for the rabbit hole the rest of us responsible owners are trying to climb out of, and the unintelligible, ignorant powers that be that pass rules, laws, and legislation into existence due to fear, ignorance (common theme here), or sheer laziness to ensure due diligence within the scope of their job and a given situation at hand.

I'm an "Italian model" (technically I'm Sicilian)...

 

[DLena]

Yep. That video speaks volumes. I'm actually planning to use it to introduce better researching skills to my classes.

 

[DollysMom]

Nice post with many cogent points HerpsOfNM.

To leapfrog off of the Burms in Florida issue (which is my shorthand for your point 5) we have AR groups led by PETA and HSUS actively working to outlaw pet ownership. Some of the strategies are subtle, like trying to get the term "owner" replaced by "guardian". While no one here supports animal cruelty or irresponsible pet ownership, when your goal is to end pet ownership we are all placed in the same boat with those who do a less than stellar job with their animals. So it is in all of our interests here to do everything in our power to promote the best possible care of corn snakes.

That said, sometimes it gets frustrating when you feel like you just can't reach someone and help a snake that is obviously at risk. It takes more than this forum. It takes supporting your local reptile rescue and local herpetological society, for example. And it doesn't hurt at all on the legislative end to join USARK. It is about our only voice right now in fighting regulatory overreach.

I'm rambling, but I agree that Facebook is kind of a black hole in spite of some of the big names in the corn snake world spending a lot of their time there. I use Facebook sporadically, but as for community and information that is readily available it has nothing on this forum. About the only thing that Facebook has over this forum is ease of photo posting. But there are gazillion corn snake and colubrid and snake groups. I can't keep up with them all either. And then your ophidiophobic friends see a post of yours to an open snake group and you get the I don't like snakes posts!

On another point, I bought Don's book at the Chicago Reptile House and read it for a year before I got my first corn snake. When I came here I fine tuned a few things and I learned a lot more, indluding where to get an awesome entry level digital thermostat (Hydrofarm Jump Start). I had only had a rheostwtat. I read a lot more than I posted in the beginning. I still have more to learn. We all do. Husbandry and best practices as well as available equipment will continue to improve. And there will always be something new to learn.

I give this community credit that even when we get testy, we rarely lose it. I wonder if that has something to do with the personalities those who stick to a message board more than FB, or that we keep these wonderful animals, or community peer pressure? I don't know but this is a nice group. If it were it wouldn't be the first place on the Internet I go in the morning and the last place I go at night.

Thanks for starting this thread, Karl. It helps to have a safe place to vent. Even when we vent around here, we may ramble and grouse a bit; but really, it's been pretty polite and constructive overall.

 

[axis1]

Everyone's made valid, and at times excellent points, so far in replies. I WAS going to actually load up word, make an outline of points, and go for broke on a TL;DR reply. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get my thoughts fully onboard with one another to really make anything cohesive. Instead, some food for thought aspects:
. . . .
[*]In respect to the community as Cornsnakes.com, we ARE NOT facebook! One of the plethora of reasons I deactivated my FB years ago is due to the sheer overabundance of ignorance, perpetuation of ignorance, false claims (death hoaxes and the likes that even EDUCATED people I know believe), and overall misinformation posted, be it from politics to what temperature to house a corn snake. Additionally, valid, bona fide, excellent information easily vanishes just as quickly as it was posted on FB. Nevermind when said information is in response to mis- or malinformation and it only receives an up vote or 3, while stupid receives hundreds (should tell you something about us as a society/nation).


[*]You can't fix stupid, but you can try to steer it in the right direction in hopes of stupid, itself and itself alone, correcting stupid. Sometimes it does, and other times stupid repeats history.... I'm just as guilty at doing this in life, knowingly or unknowingly (aka too little too late).

. . .

I'm an "Italian model" (technically I'm Sicilian. . . ]

Wow! Great points!!

I, myself, often have trouble organizing my thoughts. Feels like trying to catch a fart in a rain barrel!! But that's me!! Been like that for as long as I can remember and until I discovered the very few places like this, I thought I was alone. Which brings me to my next point: THANK YOU so much for validating what I've been saying for YEARS about FB! It's almost become like the Jerry Springer station of social media!! And time is WAY too precious for me to participate in such drivel. One of the only valuable lessons I learned in Catholic School (as I am a Recovering Catholic and cannot even go to the Aquarium I live so close to in Coney Island for fear of running into the flock of penguins there as they would remind me of the nuns who beat the s**t outta me as a kid!), is that one is NOT supposed to brag or boast about doing good deeds! If MOST only adhered to that concept, whatta world this would be, HUH?

Finally, while I am a full-blooded Italian/American, meaning I was born here but my mom is from Naples (I actually spent four months there as a child) and my dad from Brooklyn but HIS entire family from the other side also (Foggia/Deliceto which is not too far from the Neopolitan area of the boot). Therefore, genetically-speaking, I am a full-blooded Geep! (Though many have pointed out that when I was pulled from the gene pool, that I didn't even get WET!! LOL!). My wife, on the other hand, is a full-blooded Sicilian (dad from Palermo & mom from Licata) who spoke Italian ONLY for the first five years of her life! Italians would consider mine to be a MIXED-MARRIAGE but most others will just see us as just two married Eye-Talians. Needless to say, I could probably write a book about the nuances of inter-ethnic-marriage! LOL!!

Just sayin'.

BTW, I'm intrigued about this video you guys are talking about but despite the fact that I couldn't actually SEE anything until I hit the "quote" button, that link just brought me to a 14 second clip on some unrelated BS. Can anyone re-send a link to the clip you guys are referring to, as you've now officially piqued my interest! Thanx in advance!!!!

 

[HerpsOfNM]

Axis...

Great grandparents on my mom's side came through Ellis in 1917 and 1919 if I recall, both from Palermo. A fair amount of that side of the family still reside in NY or NJ, but some have headed south into FL. My grandparents did the FL thing back in '72 and I was born 9 years later in Ft. Lauderdale. Not really a clue on dad's side of the family, haven't associated with it since '97 and plan to keep it that way - the man, if you want to call him that, needs some concrete shoes....

Don't get me started on eye-talians, rather those that pronounce it that way.

I haven't been to NY (wrong island as mom puts it) since 2005??? I think. But, mom and her former fiancé (passed from stage 4 lung cancer) would always take me to Mangia off Deer Park in West (edit: NORTH, not West) Babylon for pizza and cannoli when I'd visit; she'd get the rice ball. When I graduated college, the owner sent my mom with a couple bags of the cannoli filling for me.

Rambling aside...

full video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_CgPsGY5Mw

shortened version I posted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bufTna0WArc

 

[Dragonling]

You think forums are bad (at they can be due to anonymity of the user), try working at any retail pet store, especially the likes of Petco or PetSmart.

Don't get me started on the idiots that wander into my store...

[*]In respect to the community as Cornsnakes.com, we are a forum. Short of Mr. Webslave/Serpenco/Voluntary has-been/RichZ having the server/hard drives crash, EVERYTHING is archived, be it within the vastness of the forum/server or via google caching/archiving. Thus everything is searchable, so long as you know the keywords to search for it. Sometimes I even don't, thus I become part of the problem of #1 above sometimes - it happens to the best of us.

Now if only that had been the case with the corn snake source forums. If there are archives of those somewhere I'd love to find them.

 

[HerpsOfNM]

Don't get me started on the idiots that wander into my store...

I refused a sale on a green anole. Gentleman wanted to get one for his son to replace the one that died. So I started asking open ended questions to gather info. Guy had no UVB lighting, was not gutloading the crickets, was not supplementing, and it lived in a medium kritter keeper. He hung up on the UVB lighting thing, claimed he was a lawyer and asked where it was written that they needed such lighting. I referenced my years of experience, where he cut me off, ridiculed me, where I politely cut him off and informed him of more of my experience while also revealing my age. He virtually started cross examining me at this point, so I shut him down and politely said, "I'm sorry, but if you're not willing to provide adequate care for a live animal then I cannot knowingly sell it to you." He was borderline livid, said he'd spread the word to not shop here, where I cut him off stating that I had customers that came all the way from extreme NE Arizona, NW New Mexico, and SW Colorado to deal specifically with me.

He went and ranted to our Ops Manager, where next thing I know one of my associates (I was Pet Care Lead) is getting him the anole and he's even buying the UV lighting to just educated him on. Associate got a C.A.R.E. card out of it, as well as a gift card, and I got chewed by our Pet Care Manager (PCM) for refusing a sale on an $8 lizard.

My sugar solution quickly turned into a strong pickling solution; at the end of the day I probably could have handled that "pet parent" better. Ironically, the same Ops Manager that handled that, wound up promoted to another store as Store Manager, where he and the Pet Care Manager asked our DM to transfer me to help turn around their Pet Care Department (I was district king of OSATS for Pet Care, except for live fish and oddly reptile hardgoods, couldn't beat the store in Midland, TX). Had I not left PetSmart for greener pastures out here in Dallas-Ft Worth metro, I'd probably still be there, as per the DM on my last week, they were opening new stores and wanted to promote me to PCM. Don't know if I would have wanted the headache of all that, plus 50hr + work weeks for $15/hr salaried. I'm making over $20 playing with mass spectrometers within a toxicology lab.

Now if only that had been the case with the corn snake source forums. If there are archives of those somewhere I'd love to find them.

I was a member on there only briefly before it shut down....and that was only to do research as to understanding the rifts within the corn snake community and avoid inadvertently stepping on any toes past, present, or future.

 

[axis1]

Hey HerpsofNM! How ya been?

Regardless of where you reside or work, bless your heart for doing the right thing by that anole lizard! Sorry to hear that you had to deal with several ass****s with dentures, but unfortunately, it seems to be contagious out there!

Bravo for taking a stand!! (If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything!).

Right-On!!!!