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On the subject of supposedly blue corns...
- Thread starter Kat
- Start date
Jeff Lewis
New member
Jeff Lewis
New member
I will admit that they look a bit like anery's..but as i said, the breeders said they were NOT.. The color is slightly washed out, but you get the idea of the grayish-blue color..
Is it possible they are a NEW type of Anery??
Is it possible they are a NEW type of Anery??
Serpwidgets
New member
I'll go back to the "Brown Bag"
Like I said, I saw these at the Tinley Park show. They looked exactly like Anery Motleys to me, and I wouldn't have known they were "special" had they not been labeled as they were.
If you were to put 2 Miami Phase corns and 18 normals in deli cups lined up on a table, how many picks would it take anybody to pick out the two Miamis? Probably two. Possibly 3 if some of the normals tended that way or you had "low grade" Miamis.
If you were to put two of the things I saw labeled as "blue motley" on a table along with 18 anery motleys, there's no way I (or IMO anyone else except maybe the person who bred them and recognizes their own offspring) would be able to pick out the two in any less than an average of 10 or so guesses.
To me, that says they are NOT special. It doesn't help that the most recent picture posted was quite obviously taken with a bright blue light or object to the left of the subject. Someone should congratulate themselves on also having produced "blue" aspen shavings.
They are anery motleys. Even if there is some "genetic" component to whatever it is that's supposed to be different about them, it's subtle enough that I wasn't able to see anything "odd" while examining them in person.
Like I said, I saw these at the Tinley Park show. They looked exactly like Anery Motleys to me, and I wouldn't have known they were "special" had they not been labeled as they were.
If you were to put 2 Miami Phase corns and 18 normals in deli cups lined up on a table, how many picks would it take anybody to pick out the two Miamis? Probably two. Possibly 3 if some of the normals tended that way or you had "low grade" Miamis.
If you were to put two of the things I saw labeled as "blue motley" on a table along with 18 anery motleys, there's no way I (or IMO anyone else except maybe the person who bred them and recognizes their own offspring) would be able to pick out the two in any less than an average of 10 or so guesses.
To me, that says they are NOT special. It doesn't help that the most recent picture posted was quite obviously taken with a bright blue light or object to the left of the subject. Someone should congratulate themselves on also having produced "blue" aspen shavings.
They are anery motleys. Even if there is some "genetic" component to whatever it is that's supposed to be different about them, it's subtle enough that I wasn't able to see anything "odd" while examining them in person.
Jeff Lewis
New member
Let me say again, those last pics i posted were not from me..
Listen, I am only re-selling what was sold to me..
I was a vendor at the recent Jax,Fla. show, and Bayou was right beside me.. I personally witnessed them sell quite a few to a couple other dealers, who i believe breed corns themselves..
I will say that they kinda resemble an anery, however, i think they also vary a little as far as color goes..
Now i am not a breeder of corns, and are not up on the latest morphs.. However, all the anerys that i have seen were pretty dark.. There may be another type of anery that i havent seen.. They do have a faint blue-ish tint to them..
As far as the blue light, those were their pics.. I tried to take as much time taking those pics as i could... There are no artificial lighting in my pics..
Listen, I am only re-selling what was sold to me..
I was a vendor at the recent Jax,Fla. show, and Bayou was right beside me.. I personally witnessed them sell quite a few to a couple other dealers, who i believe breed corns themselves..
I will say that they kinda resemble an anery, however, i think they also vary a little as far as color goes..
Now i am not a breeder of corns, and are not up on the latest morphs.. However, all the anerys that i have seen were pretty dark.. There may be another type of anery that i havent seen.. They do have a faint blue-ish tint to them..
As far as the blue light, those were their pics.. I tried to take as much time taking those pics as i could... There are no artificial lighting in my pics..
Kat
I'm talkin' to YOU.
Jeff, Serpwidgets isn't attacking your integrity... he's saying that without further info, and given the images he's seen, he's unwilling to concede that the snakes you've got are anything special. At this point in time, neither am I. Neither of us is making accusatory statements... just opinionated ones.
If it were me, and I had snakes that looked like that, I'd be labelling em Anery Mots, and nothing more. They're pretty anery mots, to be sure, but I don't think I could pick em out from a group of anery mots sitting on a table.
Just because people buy it doesn't mean that it must be good. You'd be surprised at how many people actually buy those enlarger patches they sell in spam emails too. (I need to find that number again... it's an interesting statistic...)
Without better info, I'm afraid I'm going to have to side with P.T. Barnum on this one. Maybe you can get the original breeder to join this thread and argue the point?
-Kat
If it were me, and I had snakes that looked like that, I'd be labelling em Anery Mots, and nothing more. They're pretty anery mots, to be sure, but I don't think I could pick em out from a group of anery mots sitting on a table.
Just because people buy it doesn't mean that it must be good. You'd be surprised at how many people actually buy those enlarger patches they sell in spam emails too. (I need to find that number again... it's an interesting statistic...)
Without better info, I'm afraid I'm going to have to side with P.T. Barnum on this one. Maybe you can get the original breeder to join this thread and argue the point?
-Kat
carl3
NortheastSnakes.com
anery motleys
I agree with CAV, Alicia and Serp on many points. I re-read my earlier post and apologize if it came off harsh. It's healthy for the corn snake community to question a new morph, its genetics, and its new name when it appears in the market. It is important to be open-minded, yet skeptical at the same time. However, I think that the odds/probability are in favor of seeing a unique variation of an existing morph vs. actually seeing a new genetic mutation. Will we always be able to tell the difference without actual DNA testing...doubtful. I think there is an overwhelming desire for some people to create new morphs or see new ones discovered.
As far as this name...maybe I'm missing the point but labeling a corn 'blue' seems a bit risky. I would think it raises buyer expectations, which in turn may lead to disappointment and confusion. Butters and Bloodreds are called such since they display distinct colors without question or doubt. There is an expectation that Bloodreds will have a certain amount of red in them and will darken to a color red that is similar to blood. I think people are disappointed to some degree if their bloodred doesn't turn out this way. Same with butter and yellow. While there is variation among these, I don't think its anywhere near comparable to the questionable appearance of a bluish hue in otherwise greyish corns.
Is a blue cornsnake possible? I would like to think so especially since blue is seen in other snakes...although very rare (blue GTP's). I couldn't even imagine what the evolutionary advantage would be for any snake to have the genes for blue scales....although maybe it has to do with the green and yellow pigments in cells combining in some way. Are there any green corns? hmmm....
Thank you Jeff for speding time to discuss this and share pictures. I would be very interested to hear from other people that have bought those corns from Bayou (?) and how theirs have turned out. Otherwise, I agree that they do appear to be very nice anery motleys.
I agree with CAV, Alicia and Serp on many points. I re-read my earlier post and apologize if it came off harsh. It's healthy for the corn snake community to question a new morph, its genetics, and its new name when it appears in the market. It is important to be open-minded, yet skeptical at the same time. However, I think that the odds/probability are in favor of seeing a unique variation of an existing morph vs. actually seeing a new genetic mutation. Will we always be able to tell the difference without actual DNA testing...doubtful. I think there is an overwhelming desire for some people to create new morphs or see new ones discovered.
As far as this name...maybe I'm missing the point but labeling a corn 'blue' seems a bit risky. I would think it raises buyer expectations, which in turn may lead to disappointment and confusion. Butters and Bloodreds are called such since they display distinct colors without question or doubt. There is an expectation that Bloodreds will have a certain amount of red in them and will darken to a color red that is similar to blood. I think people are disappointed to some degree if their bloodred doesn't turn out this way. Same with butter and yellow. While there is variation among these, I don't think its anywhere near comparable to the questionable appearance of a bluish hue in otherwise greyish corns.
Is a blue cornsnake possible? I would like to think so especially since blue is seen in other snakes...although very rare (blue GTP's). I couldn't even imagine what the evolutionary advantage would be for any snake to have the genes for blue scales....although maybe it has to do with the green and yellow pigments in cells combining in some way. Are there any green corns? hmmm....
Thank you Jeff for speding time to discuss this and share pictures. I would be very interested to hear from other people that have bought those corns from Bayou (?) and how theirs have turned out. Otherwise, I agree that they do appear to be very nice anery motleys.
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
Comparison Photo
The comparison photo shows me that there is a difference between these particular Anery Motleys. It would be difficult to doctor the color of one without it effecting the other.
I have held 100's of Anery Motleys in my hand and seen many more than that as shows and I have never seen one quite like the one on the left before. I have a Lavender Motley that resembles it more than an Anery Motley does.
It is difficult to judge from photos, but Clints anery and the "Blue" Motleys have the same "look" to me, considering the effects of the Motley gene is also contributing in the "Blues".
If Lavender covers up Anery A then we can not see the effects of a double homo for lav/anery A. I am not sure the verdict is in on that combo just yet.
Clint's parents of the Bluish/gray anery were possible het for anery B. Does Lavender cover up anery B? I personally, think that anery A and Anery B resemble each other much more than the snakes in this comparison photo and they are different.
What about an Anery B Motley? Charcoal Motley. I looked again at the photo that Rich posted in his photo Gallery of a Charcoal Motley. That photo looks very much like and Anery A Motley, but Rich says it is a Charcoal Motley so it is not questioned.
Does anybody have any info on possible homos for lav/aneryB?
The adult photo presented here does look like several Anery Motleys that I have, so I am not sure what side of the fence I am on, on this one.
The comparison photo shows me that there is a difference between these particular Anery Motleys. It would be difficult to doctor the color of one without it effecting the other.
I have held 100's of Anery Motleys in my hand and seen many more than that as shows and I have never seen one quite like the one on the left before. I have a Lavender Motley that resembles it more than an Anery Motley does.
It is difficult to judge from photos, but Clints anery and the "Blue" Motleys have the same "look" to me, considering the effects of the Motley gene is also contributing in the "Blues".
If Lavender covers up Anery A then we can not see the effects of a double homo for lav/anery A. I am not sure the verdict is in on that combo just yet.
Clint's parents of the Bluish/gray anery were possible het for anery B. Does Lavender cover up anery B? I personally, think that anery A and Anery B resemble each other much more than the snakes in this comparison photo and they are different.
What about an Anery B Motley? Charcoal Motley. I looked again at the photo that Rich posted in his photo Gallery of a Charcoal Motley. That photo looks very much like and Anery A Motley, but Rich says it is a Charcoal Motley so it is not questioned.
Does anybody have any info on possible homos for lav/aneryB?
The adult photo presented here does look like several Anery Motleys that I have, so I am not sure what side of the fence I am on, on this one.
Serpwidgets
New member
That's something else I thought could be possible... it could always be a charcoal motley, or an anery+charcoal+motley. Since Lav Motleys are selling for $1000 or more, I don't imagine anyone would be selling that combo for much less, at least if they knew what they had. 
I haven't heard what the breeder said yet, apparently someone is asking? I would think if you had something that looked to you like an "odd anery" that you'd also want to test it against charcoal before coming to any conclusions. I'd hope they would've done that, but nobody has mentioned it.
No idea about the lav/anery thing. From what I remember, it might even swing either way depending on other factors, which would also mean there might be all kinds of shades in between the extremes. (Which could make things very interesting for all of us.)
I haven't heard what the breeder said yet, apparently someone is asking? I would think if you had something that looked to you like an "odd anery" that you'd also want to test it against charcoal before coming to any conclusions. I'd hope they would've done that, but nobody has mentioned it.
No idea about the lav/anery thing. From what I remember, it might even swing either way depending on other factors, which would also mean there might be all kinds of shades in between the extremes. (Which could make things very interesting for all of us.
)
Serpwidgets
New member
Ok, point made. I also think "red" as used in dogs is silly, but apparently that's the accepted use of the language, so it would be pointless for me to argue that part of it any more.Clint Boyer said:
Marcel Poots
Young, handsom member
Clint Boyer said:
And if we disagree we will get shot....?
Clint Boyer
'Former' Snake slave
Now, now, Marcel.
I have never shot anyone...............YET!
I have never shot anyone...............YET!
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
I got a little info. More to come, maybe.
I have heard back from the breeder. He wants to call me today, so I will wait until I talk to him before I give out too much info. The "Breeder" in this case is not the breeder who bred the first "Blue" Motleys, but the breeder of these particular Blues. Hopefully, we can go back farther and talk to the breeder who produced this breeders Blues. A wholesaler is in the middle, so it may not be possible.
Hey, maybe they came from Rich from his Lav Motley project and they are double homo for Lav/aneryA Motley and he didn't know it.
I will give you a little now.
Blue X Pewter = Normal.
There goes all of my theories about the Anery B gene being involved!
Blue X anery A = infertile eggs. I know, I know, but they didn't have to tell us this either.:crying:
Why haven't you guys given Rich Z the going over for the Silver Queen Ghosts or did I miss that thread? Are they not genetically, just a Ghost?!
Is this not a simular situation? It still could be recessive genetics, but names are not always based upon the recessive genetics of the snake, but sometimes the look or normal genetics of a snake.
Agree with it or not, the genetics of a snake is not the only criteria for a name, unless you want to try to get Rich to change the name of the Silver Queens.
I have heard back from the breeder. He wants to call me today, so I will wait until I talk to him before I give out too much info. The "Breeder" in this case is not the breeder who bred the first "Blue" Motleys, but the breeder of these particular Blues. Hopefully, we can go back farther and talk to the breeder who produced this breeders Blues. A wholesaler is in the middle, so it may not be possible.
Hey, maybe they came from Rich from his Lav Motley project and they are double homo for Lav/aneryA Motley and he didn't know it.
I will give you a little now.
Blue X Pewter = Normal.
There goes all of my theories about the Anery B gene being involved!
Blue X anery A = infertile eggs. I know, I know, but they didn't have to tell us this either.:crying:
Why haven't you guys given Rich Z the going over for the Silver Queen Ghosts or did I miss that thread? Are they not genetically, just a Ghost?!
Is this not a simular situation? It still could be recessive genetics, but names are not always based upon the recessive genetics of the snake, but sometimes the look or normal genetics of a snake.
Agree with it or not, the genetics of a snake is not the only criteria for a name, unless you want to try to get Rich to change the name of the Silver Queens.
I still want to know the answer to this one. Rich sells hypos het for silver queen. This would imply that the anery it's het for somehow carries the silver queen modifier with it. ( ? ) I've always wondered which gene carries the "silver queen" modifier. Is it on the anery? the hypo? or an independent gene? Is there anything other than ghost that is altered by whatever makes up the silver queen phenotype? What I mean is that if the thing that makes silver queen a silver queen is linked to or a modified version of the anery gene, you'd think there'd be a group of anerys from these lines with a different look. Likewise if it is a version of the hypo gene or linked to it. If it's an independent modifier, has it been seen in any other morph than silver queens?
If hets are being sold, I'm guessing it acts like a simple recessive...so which gene is it? The anery? The hypo? Some silver queen modifier?
I've never heard the final thought for this one, but I'd be curious to hear some thoughts/answers.
Oh, and I just had to add this:
I do have a blue snake, it's Riley's favorite.
