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One more corn lover!

A

Amelavender

New member
Hello, my name is Lauren, and I love snakes. I suppose that's obvious. XD (for those text symbol challenged, look at "XD" from the side.)

I can remember when I thought there was no chance I would ever own a snake while living with my mom. Thanks to the owner of the local pet store, who had a gorgeous wild caught corn, my mom got used to snakes. Soon, she liked them. My stepdad was another story. But no one listens to him, anyway. Besides, he's fine with it now. Even my grandma, who swore she'd never come in my room if I had one changed her mind.

My baby is Jack, an Amelanistic corn, 3 years old, and of unkown sex. At least until next week. I got him when he was just a thread!

I will be getting another corn once Jack is sexed. I intend on a Lavender, hence my username. Mom's only thing with getting another was I had to breed them. I have no experience save for what I've read from Kathy Love's 2005 guide. The pet store lady has experience with hatching them, so we're not completely lost.

Now...What to name the Lavender...
 
Hi there and welcome to the forum. Don't hesitate to ask any questions. I am attempting breeding for the first time this year, it's really helpful to have a reputable breeder contact person in the process, idk if I could do it without the help of all my wonderful breeder Girlfriends I have met since getting our first two corns. Anyway, post pics of your boy? when you can.
 
Welcome! I'm sure you'll find this place to be a wealthy of friendly information and camaraderie. I'd love to see a pic of your amel when you have a chance :).

BTW, my Blue and Gold Macaw and my son both tell me that "Bob" is a great name. Think about it! *grins*
 
I have this problem with my mother... She won't let me get another tank so I'd have two in one, which you guys seem to be against. The lady at the pet store (local, ran by one person) says its okay as long as they are well fed and the same size. But when they reach adulthood, it would be a tight fit for two. Mom won't let me have a longer tank, only a taller one, and it isn't taller by much.

I really hope Jack's okay. He/she's been tossed in with another corn at the store until the guy comes in to sex him/her. They're about the same size, the other is an Okeetee. In her 20 years of running her store, our pet store lady says she rarely sees cannibal corns. She usually pairs two hatchlings per tank. I've only seen one of them be cannibalistic, but it was only during feeding time and both are sold now.

If something happens to Jack, she'd better GIVE me a snake. Preferably the gorgeous snow she got in yesterday that she's decided to keep. That she threw in with Sal, her 9 year old female normal corn.
 
Oh dear, I have a feeling people are going to give you an earful on that post.

As for the tank situation, a taller tank won't help you out with corns since they aren't arboreal. A lot of people keep their snakes in see through sterelite containers with locking lids and lots of air holes drilled into them. Which might be an option for you. We have all tanks because my BF doesn't like the sterelite containers.
 
Don't see why anyone should be mad at me, I'm just following the adults in my life who "know everything". I asked my mom about getting another tank and she flipped out. She doesn't realize there's more to snake breeding than her simple ideas of it. She's used to breeding dogs. Not quite the same. Remember, until now I've known very little.

Dunno what mom would say about the containers. Probably no, because its the most frequent word from her mouth. Also, where could I find containers big enough to comfortably fit an adult corn? What kind of substrate would you use? Or water?
Are they heavy enough a cat can't knock it off?
 
K. Rene said that because there have been HUGE discussions on this forum about co-habbing snakes. Most everyone on this forum is against it. I, as well, am against it. You should just wait to have a proper enclosure for the other snake, its better to be safe than sorry.

As for the containers, many people on this forum use those plastic shoe boxes or the sterilite containers to keep their corn snakes in. You can find them just the right size in WalMart or somewhere you know where they keep those tubs. I'm not sure of how big and wide they are supposed to be, because I dont keep my snake in that. But they do act as a good alternative to glass tanks.

For the water, you should use bottled water (refrigerator water works fine too). Tap water, may have too many minerals (depending on where you live) of some sort that can harm your snake. If you know the water around your area has low percentages of those minerals, then it would be fine to use tap water.

You should put the tubs where they can not be knocked over, or, where a cat wont be able to reach them.

For the substrate, you should use Aspen Shavings. There are other types of substrates you can use, but I recommend this one because its fluffy enough for the snake to burrow, and it is light in color so spot-cleaning is a breeze, its also odorless and it doesnt let off much dust, so that's an advantage to people with allergies, and to the snake. Do not use any kind of sand (The sand gets in the snakes scales and irritates the skin) or "natural" dirts, like topsoil or anything like that, it can have pesticides or other chemicals that will harm the snake.

Hope this helped! :D
 
I would not have left Jack at the pet store. He can be exposed to a number of harmful things there, including mites. And you would not have a way to quarantine your new snake if you just threw it in with Jack right away. Snakes need to be quarantined, alone, for a minimum of three months before being introduced to the rest of your collection, ESPECIALLY in the case of a pet store snake.

In any event, let's say you get the new snake and Jack and Jill breed. Then what? Do you have the money/space to set up an incubator? What about 24-30 hatchlings all in individual bins, because they can and WILL eat each other- we see it here every season. So you will have to provide the hatchlings with housing, heat, water, and pinky mice for a minimum of three meals before you can sell them.

What if some or all of the babies refuse to feed? Do you have the experience to deal with a clutch of non-feeders? Do you have a plan for that?

What if you are unable to sell the babies? Even well-known breeders with highly-desireable snakes are having a tough time selling them in this economy.

Let's say you _can_ sell the babies. Do you have someone who can teach you how to sex them?

What if one or both parents experiences difficulty with breeding? The male could encounter a hemipene injury. The female could become eggbound. Will you have enough money in savings to get veterinary care for them, if that happens?

I know you are taught to be respectful of all adults, and that is a good thing, but just because someone owns a petshop, and has a lot of animals, does not mean that they are providing proper care for them. I am not suggesting that you confront the petshop owner, but that you stick around here, and learn. Learn enough so that you can recognize bad husbandry and avoid being pressured into accepting it as good. Read both Kathy Love's and Don Soderberg's cornsnake books. After a couple years of learning everything you can about cornsnake husbandry, __then_ decide if you really want to commit yourself to the responsibility of breeding.
 
My friend who owns the petstore has hatched snakes before. Her back room is the perfect humidity for it. She used to have people who found local rat snake eggs who brought them to her. She hatched them and used them to show her customers what our local snakes looked like that were not venomous. She would then release them where the person found them, she never kept them long. She has a friend who is a professional breeder who is coming tomorrow to sex Jack and the Okeetee. So far there has been no problems between the two. Jack likes being out in the open or burrowing in the substrate. The Okeetee likes hiding under the wood. Both had that preference before being introduced. Also, my friend has had the Okeetee for a few weeks, and it has shown no problems. It even has a better set up than my tank. Which is filled with yucky sand. That hasn't been changed in over three years. Because mom didn't want to waste the left over sand from when I had Leopard Geckos. I'm trying to talk her into what my petstore friend has. She uses what you guys have mentioned, and it's much cleaner than sand. Jack keeps sand all over him because he burrows. While being in the Okeetee's tank, his color is much better without being sand covered. I am definately getting rid of the sand when mom decides she's not too lazy to help. At the moment she's in Charlotte with grandma who has ovarian cancer. So I'm without my snake, my mom, and my grandma. D:

Another thing is that I probably won't be getting a Lavender. Mom found out they aren't all a pretty purple and she doesn't like gray. I've been told that the pretty ones can cost several hundred dollars. That's out of her price range. Even though she sells her Mastiff puppies for $1200. I don't know about you, but I'd prefer a quiet snake to a big noisy dog. So if Jack and that Okeetee are opposite genders, I might have to settele for it. Just to make mom happy. Because even though she says we're just gonna breed corns for fun, she's making this a business. No "ugly" corns. Ugly includes anything black, gray, white, etc. I'm not supposed to get attatched to the new snake because it's for breeding only. If it doesn't produce pretty babies, she's selling it. She's suggested that if Jack is female, we can buy a male, breed, and sell it to have a revolving door of males. That'd be a waste of money. I don't really care that much for the Okeetee, but it's a nice snake.

Any type of "colorful" corn within an $80 price range you can suggest? That would make ok babies with my Amel?

One day, I'll own a Lavender... Just no while I'm living with the snake Nazi.

That really describes her well. She's totally racist against non colorful snakes.

That makes me sad...
 
It don't sound like it's an ideal time to be getting another snake. If you can't house them seperately, don't get another one. As far as breeding goes....no way! You have to house ALL of the hatchlings INDIVIDUALLY. I have seen a cornsnake that ate a cagemate in a petstore.
If I was you, I would just be happy with the snake you have until you learn more about them, and can provide a better housing situation for more. Definitely get that snake off of the sand and use Aspen for bedding.
Welcome to the forum. Take some time to look around and learn. You're young and there should be no rush to buy more snakes. Especially when your living with the 'Nazi'. Until you have your own place, you have to abide by her rules, and if those rules include not having another cage, then bottom line....you don't need another snake.
Once again, welcome, and I hope your grandma gets better soon.

Mitch
 
I'm starting to see you guy's point. I might as well wait until I'm on my own so I can have any color corn I want. My friend at the petstore said my mother doesn't at all understand that if corn snake sales aren't doing well in her shop then how would we sell all those babies! We could advertise online, mom has her own site for her dog business, but we don't ship. They come to us. How many people are willing to do that with a snake? None, unless it's one of the more expensive kinds. And mom expects people to want amel x Okeetee babies. When no one wants the Amel and Creamsicle at the shop.

My poor dissillusioned mother.

However, everyone loves the store owner's new Snow corn, Charlie. Mom did admit Charlie wasn't ugly. She doesn't like white snakes. But if she wants to ever profit off my snake, she needs to realize that it ain't about what she likes, it's what the customer likes.

I thought I'd be taking Jack home today, but the guy was working. Even though he said today he'd do it. Where's the reliable folks in the world? So I don't know when Jack will be sexed or coming home.

The adults in my life are giving me trust issues. XP

Also, having a form of Autism kinda puts a damper on me being on my own any time soon. I'm not able to leave until mom thinks I'm emotionally mature.

That's gonna be a while.

Oh God, she's going to turn me into one of those fat kids who never leave their mother's basement! We don't have a basement!

That or she's going to drive me insane. It's not a far drive.

Until mom and I can discuss this snake deal, which will probably be next week, I'll be thinking of ways to convince her to let me use the hermit crab tank for another snake. Not like anyone pays attention to them. I have room for another tank, she just wont admit it. Just gotta move my keyboard synthesizer, put it away. Grandma has a nice old table I could use that she doesn't.

Just got to find a way to keep her from going nuts when I bring up the subject.
 
How big is your hermit crab tank? Did Jack have a heat source at your house? What did he eat?

I have a butter girl!
 
Snake genetics are different then dog breeds. An amel + okeetee mating will only produce normals. In order to get the interesting morphs that wxist you need to find snakes that have traits that match up. Like if you mated the amel to the snow, you'd get all amel babies with the het for anery. Give yourself some time to learn how to care for snakes before trying to take on more then you can handle. I'm thirty and I'm still learning how to care for my own snakes.

I hope your grandmother is doing better.
 
Jack has a heating pad and a lamp and eats almost adult mice. At the pet store he's got a heating pad. The tank he/she's in is better set up than mine. It just doesn't have a lamp.

I know there's a lot to snake genetics. Getting mom to understand is another story.

Amels bred with Anerys make Snows, right? Or do you have to know the hidden genes? That's one downside to store bought snakes.

What is an Amel that has no white borders around it's saddles? My Amel has white borders, but there's one at the store with no white at all.
 
It'd be better to wait to get to know more about snakes, and then buy your breeders from a breeder. Then you can have the owner's expertise and you will know all of the hidden hets.
 
An amel with no white borders? Are you sure it is an Amel? It is possible that it could be a line-bread amel called a Sunglow, but it is likely it is a different morph- like a Hypo.

An amel plus an anery would produce ALL NORMALS.
All corn snake genes except Tessera are recessive.

Your mom needs to go here: http://www.corncalc.com/
She needs to read up on corn snake genetics. It doesn't matter what the snake LOOKS LIKE, it matters what genes it is carrying. Unless she is LINE BREEDING, which is what she is used to. Then you need to line breed within ONE morph.

For example, I have two classic corns that are het (carrying the genes for) hypo and lavender.
The corns look normal, but I have a 1 in 16 chance of getting a hypo lavender baby. I have a 3 in 16 chance of getting a lavender, 3 in 16 of getting a hypo and a 9 in 16 chance of getting a normal.

Two corns housed together is not going to work for breeding purposes. There are so many complications. Snakes NEED TO BE QUARANTINED when getting a new snake. A breeding pair is not a good idea to leave together year round. You are inviting sickness and stress.

It sounds like your mom needs to get some basic corn snake breeding information down. At the moment, it sounds like she is heading toward killing/injuring both snakes. And it sounds like she doesn't even understand what babies she would get. She is not going to make any money. The expenses of corn snake breeding don't outweigh the costs of breeding typical morphs.

Good luck with your mother. She should get on this site and learn some information. Or read Kathy Love's book. Or both.
 
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