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Petsmart & Petco

Chip

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
There have been several complaints by those posting on these boards regarding Petsmart and their "mice not to be sold as food" and reptile policy. While this chain doesn't have any stores in my area, I visited one in Tennessee recently and had a frustrating experience. I decided to do a bit of research and found some interesting facts. They are tied to HSUS, which doesn't want the general public to even be allowed to OWN reptiles as pets. If interested, give this a read...
http://www.arbreptiles.com/extremists2.html
 
I'm relatively new to the reptile-keeping community. While I have boycotted PetSmart because of their ridiculous "no mice for food" policy, I do usually shop at PetCo as it is the only pet store I have found in the seattle area that sells frozen mice.

I read the attached link, and it sounds a little propaganda-y. I also read the link that gives the info on the Humane Society's book that opposes reptiles as pets, and here's my question... Other than writing the book, I'm wondering what they are doing to actively end reptile ownership?

My family is no stranger to problems with the Humane Society. My father raises camels, emus and ostriches (as well as a bunch of other animals)... and HSUS does have a tendency to go off half-cocked. They came out to the ranch once and threatened to take the camels away because they have nose pegs, which is completely standard in all countries that use camels as pack animals, and there is nothing inhumane about the pegs any more than there is something inhumane about a person piercing their nose. Anyway, we found them to be incredibly uneducated. They wanted us to remove the pegs and switch to a bridal and bit like you would with a horse. Unfortunately, camels are cud chewers, and a bit would choke a camel. Not to mention damage their top dental plate (no top teeth) and the fighting teeth on older animals. We had to come up with tons of research to get them off our backs, though they did finally drop it.

But I think that while they are medlesome, they do a lot of good too, and I hesitate to just ban any company that supports their programs in any way. Am I just being naive in thinking that supporting their spade/nueter program doesn't help their anti-pet policy for reptiles?
 
I shop at petsmart, and don't plan on stopping anytime soon. A lot of items aren't carried at stores like wal-mart and target, so I have to go to an actual pet store to get a lot of things. Petsmart is the only decent petstore within a reasonable distance. I know a lot of people sing praises for mom-and-pop type shops, but the ones I've seen locally are pretty bad - dirty, dark, bad care for the animals, etc. At least at the petsmart there aren't glaring examples of neglect and/or disease.
 
I got fed up with Petsmart when I was made to feel like an awful person for wanting to by feeder mice, by a teenager who was in the process of filling someone's order for feeder crickets and fish. 5 minutes later I sent someone else into the store to pick out a mousey and buy it for me. I have some respect for a place that would say "we don't sell feeder animals, we think it is inhumane", but not for a place that won't sell cute fuzzy feeders, but will sell "yucky" bugs or "slimy" fish as food and not even flinch. Especially when that store keeps their reptiles (and other animals too) in such awful conditions. I emailed their customer service site about it and was berated a second time. I try not to shop there anymore if I can help it.
 
I hear ya..

I think the PetSmart near me is one of the few stores I've read about that actually is pretty good in their upkeep and care of the animals and the conditions. And I've seen the proof of it.

While I agree from a "pet" store standpoint that selling mice for feeders is cruel, it does make it inconvenient for those of us on the fringe of the pet world who regard rodent-eating reptiles as pets. People have differing opinions on a lot of things, pets included.

The PetSmart here has a full blown local Humane Society inside, and I think that is what keeps the care of the animals they sell in the store, top-notch. The animals are kept in clean enclosures, the rodent cages don't smell of urine. The birds are socialized by employees and played with. The fish aquariums are spotlessly clean and the fish well fed and taken care of. I've seen them mark a whole aquarium off-sale because they saw a single diseased fish inside (which is what they should do).

Their reptiles are healthy and well fed. They even keep the leopard geckos off of sand, and on paper-towels..and have a sticky note on the cage that says "Sand Kills". The employees aren't all money hungry teenagers. They're actually knowledgable about what they sell. I "test" them every once in a while by asking newbie questions about this or that and seeing how they answer. And so far, the results are encouraging. If they don't answer a question to what I feel is the correct answer, I'll let them know of their mistake and point them in the right direction to learn more.

So all in all, I think PetSmart's affiliation with the Humane Society has been a great thing. Not only do they sell pets, but they also advocate the adoption of perfectly good "used" pets as well.

There have been quite a few "mom and pop petstores" I've been in, and immediately walk right back out because the stench of animal wastes and unsightly animals was horrible. So until I see otherwise at my local PetSmart, I will continue to shop from there.

I don't buy my frozen mice from a store anyway, I order them from Rodentpro.com (another local business). The animals I receive are cheaper, cleaner, and look a lot healthier than the frozen mice the pet stores around here sell.

If you're forced to pay $5 for a fancy mouse at PetSmart for a feeder mouse, just don't say anything about what you're going to do with it once you get it home. As long as they're making a sale, it doesn't matter after it's in your hands. =)
 
Here are two quotes from Ingrid Newkirk, founder and president of PeTA:


"For one thing, we would no longer allow breeding… as the surplus of cats and dogs declined, eventually companion animals would be phased out…We would no longer allow…pet shops” (Harper’s Magazine, Aug 1988) AND...

"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation." (Washingtonian Magazine, Aug. 1986)

PETA and HSUS are closely tied, as the article points out. One's more like a mugger, the other a con man.

I haven't even stepped foot in a PetCo, and don't even know where any are located. But I'd prefer to spend my money at "Mom and Pop" shops- surely there are some well-run, clean ones near where you all live?!?

By the way, if they won't sell mice as feeders, what do they feed their snakes? And if they sell snakes, what are purchasers supposed to do? Seems pretty weak.:confused:
 
I believe Petco does sell feeder mice (and snakes). PetSmart doesn't sell either (knowingly, anyway). I will have to agree with Taceas about everything regarding the PetSmart where I live...EXCEPT for the care of the reptiles. That's the only area they don't do well in.

As for the "Mom and Pop" stores here...they are terrible! I can drive about 40 minutes to a pretty decent reptile/fish store. It used to be a great store, but has changed management and isn't as good now as it used to be, unfortunately.
 
Hah..

PETA gets about as much sympathy as Green Peace does in my household. Bunch of lunatics wanting to get noticed.

Anyway, there is one decent mom and pop store around here, but they're too expensive even on rodent food so I don't usually go there. Their reptiles, birds, fish, mammals are all in great shape whenever I do go in, though.

But seriously, who pays attention to PETA, other than the media? People who say "Save the cows! Drink beer!" aren't exactly the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

While I'm all for treating animals properly and making sure that their needs are met and that they're comfortable in 'captivity'..I draw a distinct line between the needs of animals and the needs of humans.

If PETA and Green Peace ever took over, we'd be eating dirt and rocks, that is unless they made up some society to protect minerals.

If animals were meant to be treated like humans, then they'd look like a hominid and walk upright, bipedally. I'm not saying take any less care of animals or treat them as though they were disposable, but there is a distinct difference between us and the rest of the animal kingdom.

This whole situation is like a catch 22..you can't have one thing without the other. Then again, we can't humanize every animal and get along either.

"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation." (Washingtonian Magazine, Aug. 1986)

Human manipulation takes many forms. It even takes the form of human breeding, and obviously whoever manipulated these individuals from PETA and other radical organizations, clearly shows the direct result of a negative influence on even our own species. ;)

Different areas will have different management and employees in a chain store environment. The PetSmart here luckly is a good one. I don't buy anything but fish from there. I choose to buy my pets from private individuals, classified ads, or in the case of my dog, the pound.

I think the only thing PetSmart (and PetCo) has against them, is the fact that they purchase their stock from mill breeders. And that, is the only reason I won't buy from them. I want to know that my animals were produced with their health in mind, not the profit in mind.

The last pet I purchased from them was a guinea pig. I spent over $300 in vet bills on a $20 pet that ended up dying anyway. I think it had every disease a guinea pig could, and all because it's breeder wanted to make a profit on a sub-quality animal. That opened my eyes, and I have since never purchased from them again.

My favourite motto is: To each their own. And yes, that applies to pets and pet stores. If someone wants to give in and purchase the animal at PetSmart, it's their right to do so. I would hope that there is one of us on every street corner to point them in the correct direction to make a better sale. =)
 
Deep Ponderings

Petsmart, PetCo, PETA, HSUS.... there's a lot to be said on each subject, and I feel like rambling. :)

PetsMart is based out of Phoenix which is where I live. I respect their policy to not sell feeder mice. It's their choice, and seriously, anyone who wants to pay $5 for a feeder mouse can do it, just gotta sign the form. They did sell snakes for a short bit, but found they couldn't get them to eat those "snake sausages" with any regularity, so the corn snakes kept dying. A failed experiment. At least here in Pheonix.

PetCo is notorious for having lower quality animals of all varieties. About 5% of my current breeder mice originate from PetCo, 75% from PetSmart, and the rest from laboratories. They do sell feeders, and even have some cute mice from time to time. But I've never seen a reptile there that I wanted to buy. The one that I did buy, a gecko, was dead within 8 hours of coming home with me.

PETA... I think about their perspective a lot. A whole lot. I know this may sound dumb, but I think about them when I am driving home from work. I drive past numerous dairy farms and I always have a "cow comment" for my husband. I'm always wondering about the intelligence of Wild Cows compared to Dairy Cows. And I also wonder if they stand there, chewing their cud, thinking: "And to THINK... I could have been free?!?" I don't know about you guys, but those dairy cows don't really look miserable. My feeder mice aren't miserable.

Anyway... I ran out of rambling time so I have to cut short my long-winded thoughts.

I think that PetSmart is okay, Petco is lesser, PETA is plain stupid, and the HSUS has the most chance of making a change. But there are numbers out there to back up any sort of claim that HSUS makes about reptiles. Sure there may be more cases of reptile induced salmonella, but what about dog bites, cat scratches, and other foul injuries borne by animals.
 
Damn people just freekin lie...

until I discovered that PetCo didn't actually give a crap, I lied to the petsmart people (different stores in my area) a bunch of times, signed the form and boo ya FOOD!

I even sent my parents to do it for me...

Now that I know most all Petco's don't give a crap I just get my live feeders there.

Anyone who's anyone that's smart goes rodentpro.com for their frozen stuff... quality
 
You were paying $5 for a feeder mouse! Wow, I would be broke in no time at that rate. I know there's pet stores around me that sell feeders for a buck something each. I did buy one mouse from Petsmart that's indirectly for food. She's one of my breeder females in my mouse colony. (Actually, the other 3 breeders I got to start were the buck-something feeders from the other store - I just wanted more color :))
 
no, where did you get $5 from? Both petco and petsmart have common mice for under $2...

I've been getting my common white mice from petco for $1.49.
 
Yeah they are fairly cheap for mice but not that cheap here...anwyays its humourous that you lie to them to get feeder mice for the snakes. I find that funny.

Screw them! LOL Any chain store with the word "pet" in the name usually bites for many reasons.

bmm
 
Anyone who's anyone that's smart goes rodentpro.com for their frozen stuff... quality

Anyone that is smart will shop around for better prices. Nothing against Rodent Pro, but you can find better deals for the same quality. If you're paying more than $0.60/mouse, then you're paying way too much! I burn through 75-100 food items a week, so I'm always on the lookout for a deal! ;)
 
I can't agree on the "It's OK to lie to them because they're all a bunch of hypocritical morons" theory. I'm sorry, but I see no reason to degrade myself simply because someone ELSE is an idiot. By the reasoning that line of thinking embraces, it would be just as acceptable to steal the mice from them, in my opinion. I know no one would actually agree to do that, but by what grounds would you say that someone else should not? If it is OK to lie to them and sign documents verifying your lying, why would it not be OK to steal?

I guess I'm just too old (or is that old-fashioned??), but I can't see any good that can come from lying one's way into getting some mice from a place that doesn't want or deserve your business. Boycotting the "Pet"stores will do much more good in the long run, and your conscience will be clean as well.

Enough sermonizing on my part . . .

For cheap feeders of good quality, I like Big Cheese Rodent Factory, myself. Here's a link:

link
 
ok CAV if you're such the thrify mouse buyer, who do you go to for frozen supplies!

Spill it..

I took a reason and argument class in undergrad and have to say your argument is most upsetting, I will clarify more later but for now:

Lying and stealing one in the same eh? Well I guess they all make up part of the 10 commandments but is stealing the same as adultry... so next time you download an MP3 you better think twice you dirty usurper...

lol, give me a break...
 
So Darin...

You think the Big Cheese Rodent Factory has better quality mice? Because I compared prices, and RodentPro.com has cheaper mice and rats unless you are buying 500 or more.

If the Big Cheese Rodent Factory has better quality mice, however, then it may be worth the extra money if not buying 500 or more mice.

I usually only buy around 250 mice at a time, but I may have to consider buying more so I can save more money!!!

One more thing...how are the mice from the Big Cheese packaged?
 
Homer,

Look, you advocated a plan of action, and I merely stated that it was one with which I could not agree. I don't download MP3s, so I guess I don't see the connection there.

I did not bring up religion, and don't determine my behaviors according to the "ten commandments," so maybe that wasn't necessary here. Of course, it did provide you with a straw man argument to knock down, but the problem is it was an argument I never made. I did not attack you personally, I simply stated that one bit of deception seems to be as justifiable as another, in my opinion.

The fact of the matter is that you'll live according to your personal standards, and I'll live according to mine. We probably ought to just leave it there.
 
Terri,

I like the quality and size selection of Big Cheese Rodent's mice. They come vacuum packed in the smaller sizes (I wish they did in the larger sizes too, but they don't offer that yet). The larger mice come arranged neatly in styrofoam trays so that they are much easier to get apart in a frozen state. There is never any feces or other debris on the mice that I have ever seen.

I have never had a problem with ordering specific quantities I needed for a special purpose, and the customer service is wonderful. They are especially professional in every way.

I am not running down RodentPro here. I have ordered from them in the past. However, for my needs, Big Cheese Rodent Factory is the better "fit." I am a happy and stisfied customer . . . and that's about as high a praise line as you're going to find in this business!

:D
 
ok CAV if you're such the thrifty mouse buyer, who do you go to for frozen supplies!

I have used both Cajunmice and Big Cheese and would quickly recommend either. Both of these suppliers vacuum pack the bags, package superbly and are very competitively priced. While I can't personally vouch for the taste, the snakes seem to love 'em.

Thrifty? I think so. I just had a Big Cheese order arrive on Tuesday. Total bill for 750 food items: $203 (adult Mice thru small pinkies). This same quantity would have cost >$900 thru a local supplier. Despite the fact that the outside temps were near 100*, the box had an interior temp of -2*! Not bad I'd say.

Darin hit the nail on the head. I switch to Big Cheese because they offer a larger variety of sizes. I have a bunch of yearlings that are eating everything from small adult mice thru large pinkies, so I needed some of everything on the menu.
 
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