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Please help my Dekays.

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Uhh...the snake died. That seems to be a problem, in my opinion. Settled in real well, that one did...after 1-2 years in captivity the snake died because of bad care. How long do you think said snake would have lived had you left it alone? So...how does that justify anything?

The reality is...I have several wild caught snakes of my own. I have wild garters, wild rosy and rubber boas, a wild longnose, a wild groundsnake, a wild Cali king, and have passed along numerous wild gophersnakes. The difference is...I have the knowledge and experience to be able to properly care for these animals, as witnessed by the fact that they are ALL still alive, thriving, and several have gone on to reproduce. And...if one shows signs of stress, illness, or failure to adapt to captivity...I let it go.

I don't have a problem with people legally catching and keeping wild snakes. I have no problem with that whatsoever. What I DO have a problem with is people taking snakes from the wild without knowing what they are or how to care for them, and without paying the snake it's due consideration when it doesn't adapt to captivity. I have a problem with people justifying bad choices with anthropomorphism. I have a problem with people allowing wild snakes to die in captivity because they are too stubborn to let the thing go and live it's life after they fail to adapt.

Just because YOUR wild caught snake died from horrible care instead of stress-induced injury, does NOT change the validity of my earlier statements. In fact...if anything it reinforces my statement.

of course it died of wrong care , your right on that , since neither me and my uncle new how to care for it and pet shops refused to help. but still my point is , if you catch a wild snake it won't just die out of stress. even a human has stress when you put him in preson for his whole life with the whole pressure in he's mind tht he's not gonna be free anymore till he dies, but that stress doesn't kill him. neither it does to the snake. so as long as you give good care to a snake it can be tamed. and so every other animal , since any captive bred race of snake was once catched and tammed from the wild :p
 
It's nice to know that your vast experience with 2 wild snakes outweighs the community experience with hundreds of thousands of them....

A snake dying after 1 year in captivity is NOT something you should be bragging about. ESPECIALLY when it is entirely your fault that the snake suffered needlessly for a year and than died a miserable death. Proud of yourself??

not really. as i just said i didnt have any knoledge of carring for snakes at that time, if i had, he would still be alive.
 
Snake update.

He's doing quite well, actually. Having taken advice from an experienced person who also uses this board, we've decided at this point to wait for it to self-amputate, which it seems to be doing as we speak. He's fine, not lethargic and is content to sleep on my chest. He's just hanging out.. So much for being stressed. :) After all of the conflicting posts, I was left with any other choice..but I appreciate those who gave it a valiant attempt.
 
Sometimes, pretty much most of the time, it's best to have to knowledge to see a wild snake, know it's pretty, know you want it, and just let it be, because you know it's the best thing for the snake. No matter what you want.
 
Perhaps. But I don't work like that. I'd rather stop to help if and when I can.

It's like seeing a car accident on the side of the road and driving by, because you think they've already called for help.
 
of course it died of wrong care , your right on that , since neither me and my uncle new how to care for it and pet shops refused to help. but still my point is , if you catch a wild snake it won't just die out of stress. even a human has stress when you put him in preson for his whole life with the whole pressure in he's mind tht he's not gonna be free anymore till he dies, but that stress doesn't kill him. neither it does to the snake. so as long as you give good care to a snake it can be tamed. and so every other animal , since any captive bred race of snake was once catched and tammed from the wild :p

It's really quite simple. Some snakes adapt to captivity. Some do not. Those that do not can and often will develope stress related injuries and illnesses. Absolutely, stress CAN BE a cause of prolapse. Absolutely stress CAN be deadly.

DeKay's Brown Snakes are one of the species KNOWN to adapt poorly to captivity. Can they be kept successfulyl? Absolutely. However, this typically requires someone with a solid foundation in the proper care of their species, and a concentrated observation of their stress levels.

The fact of the matter is that stress is a very real issue for wild caught snakes. It's a very real issue for captive bred snakes. It's a very real issue for reptiles in captivity in general. Yes, all of our captive propogated species came from wild lineage. You're right about that. But captive populations are established by people with knowledge and experience in the animals, and an effort to monitor andcontrol stress levels.

To say that "snakes don't stress" is just wrong. Bad, bad information. They DO stress out, and they CAN die from it. Period. This is not debateable as it is a fact. That doesn't mean they always do. But it DOES happen.


Margulis wrote:
Perhaps. But I don't work like that. I'd rather stop to help if and when I can.

It's like seeing a car accident on the side of the road and driving by, because you think they've already called for help.
If the snake doesn't adapt to captivity and ultimately dies...how much have you helped? If you don't have the knowledge and experience to actually care for an injured snake...what right do you have to take it from the wild? How is it helpful to add stress on top of an injury?

And your analogy is false. Snakes are not people, they don't think, act, live, feel, or respond like people do. A snake laying in a parking lot during a rainstorm is not in need of "rescue", it is in need of being moved out of traffic. That's ALL it is in "need" of. It will either live or die as Mother Nature intended. If you haven't the experience to properly care for it's injuries, and actually make it's situation better instead of worse...you aren't helping.

If I drive by an accident, and the driver has internal injuries and broken bones that I have no experience with...what right do I have to try and help them? None. I would call 911, and let people that really know what they are doing handle it. Ultimately, that snake knew more than you did about it's state and well being. Moving it away from the foot traffic and letting "the expert"(the snake, in this case) take care of it would have been the best option.

Regardless, I'm glad to hear he is doing reasonably well, and I wish you luck.
 
not really. as i just said i didnt have any knoledge of carring for snakes at that time, if i had, he would still be alive.

Maybe. Maybe not. We will never know. But one thing is certain...it had a better chance in the wild than in your care, didn't it?
 
Snake update.

He's doing quite well, actually. Having taken advice from an experienced person who also uses this board, we've decided at this point to wait for it to self-amputate, which it seems to be doing as we speak. He's fine, not lethargic and is content to sleep on my chest. He's just hanging out.. So much for being stressed. :) After all of the conflicting posts, I was left with any other choice..but I appreciate those who gave it a valiant attempt.

Sorry, but a recently-caught Northern Brown that sleeps on your chest IS exhibiting symptoms of lethargy. But you obviously know best. I suspect that we'll never be told the sad conclusion of this snake's miserable tale. Still, I hope for the best!
 
Perhaps. But I don't work like that. I'd rather stop to help if and when I can.

It's like seeing a car accident on the side of the road and driving by, because you think they've already called for help.

But...the snake was to the best of your knowledge fine when you found it. It didn't have any insides on the outside. It could have been relocated.
 
Perhaps. But I don't work like that. I'd rather stop to help if and when I can.

It's like seeing a car accident on the side of the road and driving by, because you think they've already called for help.

"You're going to get better, Mr. Man! I'm your biggest fan!"
 
I have not responded to your thread BUT I will say that if it is sleeping on your chest and it is a northern brown which I have kept and bred it is lethargic and close to death.
 
All I'm saying is... when the only person saying "Yeah!!! Go for it! Keeping wild snakes is perfectly fine!!!" is a kid who's only experience with wild caught snake keeping ended in it dying from poor husbandry... you're probably on the wrong team.
 
All I'm saying is... when the only person saying "Yeah!!! Go for it! Keeping wild snakes is perfectly fine!!!" is a kid who's only experience with wild caught snake keeping ended in it dying from poor husbandry... you're probably on the wrong team.

:cheers: I agree! People without practical experience should refrain from offering advice!
 
Sorry, but a recently-caught Northern Brown that sleeps on your chest IS exhibiting symptoms of lethargy. But you obviously know best. I suspect that we'll never be told the sad conclusion of this snake's miserable tale. Still, I hope for the best!

LMAO!

Wait...was that inappropriate? Sorry.
 
All I'm saying is... when the only person saying "Yeah!!! Go for it! Keeping wild snakes is perfectly fine!!!" is a kid who's only experience with wild caught snake keeping ended in it dying from poor husbandry... you're probably on the wrong team.

AMEN!! mumble,mumble...10 characters...
 
LMAO!

Wait...was that inappropriate? Sorry.

Hah! No, I think it's ok. I kept a healthy Northern Brown for a season. My chest would have been a disgusingly musky and poop-covered place had I allowed it to hang out there. A worm/slug eater needs almost daily feeding, which results in frequent pooping. And the one I kept wasn't the only one I've handled. A healthy one can be a musky little devil. But what do I know?
 
Hah! No, I think it's ok. I kept a healthy Northern Brown for a season. My chest would have been a disgusingly musky and poop-covered place had I allowed it to hang out there. A worm/slug eater needs almost daily feeding, which results in frequent pooping. And the one I kept wasn't the only one I've handled. A healthy one can be a musky little devil. But what do I know?

Now, Dean...you know that actual, practical experience with the species in question is nothing cmopared to the inexperienced opinion of someone that can kill a snake in less than a year. How dare you...:bang:
 
I agree! People without practical experience should refrain from offering advice!

Oh yeah, mon....one should absolutely have more than ten days experience in snakekeeping before offering a multitude of advice. Absofreakin'lutely.
 
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really? my uncle had one of the small snakes that live in malta, my sister's boyfriend caught it and gave it to me like 4years ago, since i couldnt get him any food and the petshop said those will not it mice i gave it to my uncle. he did eat mice and lizards and lived for 1-2years without a heathmath (bad tempreture control) without hibernating and in captivity. then it did , and thats probably for doing 1-2winters without a heathmat (bad temp).

Ok,, 1 to 2 yrs is not long term capativity for any wild species.. No heatmat ( I think this what you were trying to say.. ) and hibernating... Umm snakes do not hibernate... Sunshine, you have a ton to learn ..




of course it died of wrong care , your right on that , since neither me and my uncle new how to care for it and pet shops refused to help. but still my point is , if you catch a wild snake it won't just die out of stress. even a human has stress when you put him in preson for his whole life with the whole pressure in he's mind tht he's not gonna be free anymore till he dies, but that stress doesn't kill him. neither it does to the snake. so as long as you give good care to a snake it can be tamed. and so every other animal , since any captive bred race of snake was once catched and tammed from the wild :p

Ahhh.. I don't think you have had to try to deal with very many wild critters.. Let alone snakes .. Tamed? Your kidding right? Oh Sunshine, you have a lot to learn..

and finally...

Perhaps. But I don't work like that. I'd rather stop to help if and when I can.
It's like seeing a car accident on the side of the road and driving by, because you think they've already called for help.

I am sure many members here would do that.. I am pretty sure most expieiranced members have a pretty good sense and understanding of wild things too.. There are a few Field Herpers here as well, some with a lot of expieriance and some that make some pretty decent judgement calls.. I would have more than likely have moved to the a wooded area where a bit of serenity could be found..


Personally, if you are a newbie, not to be rude, sometimes it is best to be quiet and learn as much as you can before you let your feathers ruffle...

Regards... Tim of T and J
 
Oh yeah, mon....one should absolutely have more than ten days experience in snakekeeping before offering a multitude of advice. Absofreakin'lutely.
Takin' a dig at me? That's fine. I read voraciously, is all, and when the things I read about snakes are confirmed by people who've kept snakes longer than I, I tend to think that it's affirmed as truth.
 
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