questions about morphs

[Rich Z]

I have met some of the people you talk about Vinny. I am certain that Bob Fengya would bust a gut laughing if he found out that you consider him part of the "scientific community". When he lived up in New Jersey he drove a garbage truck for a living. He moved down to North Carolina, and within the last couple of years moved up to Pennsylvania. Not sure what he is doing now. Bob is a real interesting guy. One of the first people I am aware of to do hard core hybridization. He's been around, and done a lot, but he certainly is not a credentialed scientist.

Gerry Salmon was a New York State Trooper. When I lived in Maryland he would often stop by to and from his trips down to the Carolinas and such. Pleasant guy to talk to, for sure. He has spent a lot of time in the field, but certainly no more then scores of other people. I'm sure he would get a chuckle as well for being referred to as a "scientist".

 

[E. g. guttata]

no the have better things to do with there time they are fine with me and we have talks that you cant grasp like okeetee and locaty stuff . and how the hobby is being contatited with none corn blood. how the hobby on a whole has become all about the money.

THere you are trying to degrade my intelligence again simply because you cannot have a logical debate. The simple fact is that they think they are too high and mighty to even come on here, so they are worthless. I can grasp the idea of a locality snake, the problem is is that no one can argue effectively for one, nor do any 2 people have the same definition of what constitues one. I can certainly grasp the concept that corn blood is not the only thing floating around in this hobby. After all, I AM putting a page on my website that is strictly dedicated to integrates and hybrids. If you didn't notice, I also started a thread to get as much hybrid/integrate info as I could so I could post it on my site. I can also understand that your last statement about how the hobby is all about money is a false one. I speak to Don once or twice a year, and I can tell you from phone conversations and e-mails, that he is not in this for the money. He has told me tons of times not to get into the hobby as a professino because there is no money in it. He has told me to keep it as a hobby, simply because the work involved is more than the money you make. Yet he has his own buisness that is mainly about selling corns. Have you ever even e-mailed him??? I listen to him above all others because he is so into his snakes that he could write a three-page e-mail if you hit the right subject. He is so dedicated to his snakes, that he keeps with it, knowing that he is not making a lot of money, simply because he loves this hobby. I dare you to tell me that he is not a professional. After all, from what you know, professionals, REAL professionals, don't waste their time teaching the common-flok like us. Which obviously excludes Rich and Kathy as well. Two more people who are in this hobby because they love it.

 

[Vinman]

I dont care what bob doesfor aliving he get deep into the genetic history and is into the sintific comunty abd done lots of coneversation work in NJ
Jerry is my boy let me tell you that he is doine the feild work in the are working on the taxonomy and ranges of the mexicana.so dont jerry is working with the scientific community. bob and jery both have done worh in thisfeild

 

[E. g. guttata]

Menhir the fact isthisokeetee isareal place people have going down there to collect corns since carl went down there and brought people who brought people and it came to be a colection point If people dont want to belive it what can you do

No one is debating whether the okeetee exsits or it doesn't. What we are debating is what is considered to be a locality corn. No one, anywhere here has said that the okeetee didn't exist. You are putting words in others' mouths. How is an okeetee locality corn defined?? No one agrees on it, so there is no true definition. Stick to what is being said and not what you want to hear. That simple.

 

[E. g. guttata]

I dont care what bob doesfor aliving he get deep into the genetic history and is into the sintific comunty abd done lots of coneversation work in NJ
Jerry is my boy let me tell you that he is doine the feild work in the are working on the taxonomy and ranges of the mexicana.so dont jerry is working with the scientific community. bob and jery both have done worh in thisfeild

SO it follows that Serp is part of the scientific community because he went through and wrote a book on the genetics of the corns, how they work, and even made it "user friendly" just for the "common-folk".

 

[Vinman]

Jerry has been doing talks nationally for 5 years .Has puplishedin herp revieand gives talks to chicago herp. Does field work with Texas A & M
He hsa deposited sevral hundred specimens in the preserved in their collections That are mainly DOR ( road kill) HAS done field work for UANL in Monterrey mexico. this does not make him scientist. but makes him part of the sceintific community
bob fengya has done field work and conversation work in NJ with ROB Z .

 

[Rich Z]

Oh yeah, conservation work in New Jersey. I had a runin one time with some professor out in the Pine Barrens. Sorry, don't recall his name, but we got to talking and I accompanied him on his walk while he was doing location studies on the corn snake in New Jersey. We walked along the railroad tracks going into Tom's River and he had a metal probe that he would thrust into rotted railroad ties to try to chase anything out that would be in there.

Well, in one railroad tie he probed, out popped an eastern king snake, which he bagged up and proclaimed that he was going to relocate away from his study area. So I'm thinking, "Sheesh, what a jerk. That king snake is part of nature here in his study area so here he is going to invalidate any study results he could possibly gather because he is removing a predator." At that point I made excuses about having other things to do and parted company.

Basically, in my opinion, what the "conservationists", and "academics" have done is to make the New Jersey Pine Barrens into their own private playground, making up their own rules, and excluding anyone else who is not part of that private club of theirs. Heck, the first albino northern Pine Snakes, from what I can recall, came from one of the members of this exclusive club. So how did they find their way into the marketplace?

Yeah, the "scientific community". I'm real impressed with that bunch. Those are the people who will set up drift fences in an area and pickle EVERYTHING they catch to put in jars in museums so they have their names on the records associated with them. There was a guy doing that in Maryland with spotted salamanders that everyone delighted in destroying his drift fences whenever they found them. A couple of people toyed with the idea of putting that guy himself into a 55 gallon drum of formaldehyde too, if they ever came across him in the woods.

I can remember reading an account associated with some university in California that sent a group to an island population of tortoises. They picked EVERY ONE they located, from adults to newly hatched babies. In their report they wrote that they considered the animals to be rare because of the few numbers they were able to collect and catalog. Bet they are MUCH rarer now......

Yeah, I think real highly of this "scientific community". unch:

 

[Vinman]

Liker you said that profeser was a jerk but bob fengya did lots ow work with pine snakes they realsesed many back into the wild




Not all "scientific reseach is done in this maner and if it wasent for there work there would be no classification of herps like new ssp. of corn found in La

Now I not being nasty but you had a falling out with bob over the way you left the area after you hunted . So destroying habatt is ok for self gaine and not for science.
quote; I can remember reading an account associated with some university in California that sent a group to an island population of tortoises. They picked EVERY ONE they located, from adults to newly hatched babies. In their report they wrote that they considered the animals to be rare because of the few numbers they were able to collect and catalog. Bet they are MUCH rarer now......

Yeah, I think real highly of this "scientific community
quote;

rich did they keep the tortoises or did they release them after they collect and catalog them that is what we do in pelham bay with the milksnakes. Matter of fact they do the same thing with whales catalog them by their markings. I'm sure that they let them go this is the way things are done now. You would know this if you were involed in some kind of conservation work .

 

[Rich Z]

Now I not being nasty but you had a falling out with bob over the way you left the area after you hunted . So destroying habatt is ok for self gaine and not for science.

You have that story wrong, Vinny. It was not me who was destroying the habitat.

rich did they keep the tortoises or did they release them after they collect and catalog them that is what we do in pelham bay with the milksnakes. Matter of fact they do the same thing with whales catalog them by their markings. I'm sure that they let them go this is the way things are done now. You would know this if you were involed in some kind of conservation work .

Hah! They PICKLED those tortoises. Every last one of them.

 

[Rich Z]

And as an addendum to that comment above, I wrote this: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20500 a LONG time ago, and is pretty much representative of how I feel about leaving the environment when collecting. So I think you need to get your story straight, Vinny.

 

[princess]

Oh Geez Vinny, I put my head out there for you a while ago when you were ranting like a lunatic and I defended you because I thought you may have had a point and people were judging you harshly but now that I have seen more of your 'interactions' if I may call your posts that, I can see that all you do is attack anyone who says anything even slightly contradicting how you see things.

Conversation and debate is about sharing ideas and points of view, not attacking the integrity of your opponant.

You may indeed have some good points and something valid to add to conversations and debates but you are going about it TOTALLY the wrong way and in effect, your style of debate actually makes any valid points you might make, seem like the rantings of a mad-man.

Dropping names gets you nowhere and as Rich has pointed out, you've gotta get your facts straight about the people you're refering to.

I've looked back at a number of your posts and the general stance is all about attacking what someone else has said....What's the point in that? This community is about caring for our snakes and debating issues in an adult way. Frankly, I'm embarassed that I stood up for you back then before looking more at the theme of your posting.....

 

[Vinman]

so it was bob that riped up the place . wow he always told me to make sure that I put back everything like it was before I got there.