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Rich, you have to see this.

diamondlil said:
Even if rabbits, squirrels, possums or raccoons are vermin, they still get covered under cruelty laws? So you can trap or despatch them but not cause undue suffering?
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That's like saying even if homeless people are considered homeless, they still get protected by human laws? You cant hurt a homeless person just like you cant hurt a person with a home! Its not about laws, its about morality!
 
Candy_Cane1 said:
That's like saying even if homeless people are considered homeless, they still get protected by human laws? You cant hurt a homeless person just like you cant hurt a person with a home! Its not about laws, its about morality!
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Whoah Nellie! I'm not saying it's ok or not to launch squirrels! I'm not anyone's morality police. I was asking about the law, because I know over here some methods of dispatch are acceptable for animals classed as vermin but not for others. (Gassing underground of rats and badgers, for example)
My personal take on killing anything is that it should be as quick and clean as possible, whether it's me dispatching the mice I raise as feeders or someone killing a nuisance groundhog, mole, rabbit or whatever.
 
If they had some sort of net to catch the squirrel, it might be a legitimate tactic to scare the "vermin" from returning. I would probably still find it a bit mean to send the squirrel through the air, but if the net safely caught the animal, causing no injury, I wouldn't consider it animal cruelty. As is, though, with the animal at the mercy of serious injury and suffering, I would say that it's quite cruel. I don't believe that it's right to cause injury and suffering to any animal, and to possibly break that poor animals bones only to die a slow death is awful, in my opinion!
 
diamondlil said:
Whoah Nellie! I'm not saying it's ok or not to launch squirrels! I'm not anyone's morality police. I was asking about the law, because I know over here some methods of dispatch are acceptable for animals classed as vermin but not for others. (Gassing underground of rats and badgers, for example)
My personal take on killing anything is that it should be as quick and clean as possible, whether it's me dispatching the mice I raise as feeders or someone killing a nuisance groundhog, mole, rabbit or whatever.
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Sorry for jumpin' to conclusions :)
I agree, im just bad about..well, being the morality police. :fullauto: again, my apologies :) I actually dont see how they got away with doing this without repercussions of course there are states where it's OK to hunt feral cats as game animals.
 
Candy_Cane1 said:
Sorry for jumpin' to conclusions :)
I agree, im just bad about..well, being the morality police. :fullauto: again, my apologies :) I actually dont see how they got away with doing this without repercussions of course there are states where it's OK to hunt feral cats as game animals.
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No worries. I remember a long and passionate discussion, in which I was involved, about a member who shot some sort of turtles in their parents' ponds. While I can't imagine it being ok in anyones' head, others supported their view, saying what a pest the turtles could be. I still wondered how quick and efficient a death it was.
But as a child I was encouraged to help clear hay barns of rats by driving them out for the jack russells to catch, and I'm sure other people would be horrified by that. Would I do it now? Yes, if working with keen dogs, it means the rats died instantly without leaving poisoned corpses around. In fact I've promised my friend I'll take Rosie to clear her barn when the rat numbers build up, because she doesn't want to use poison. Not for sport or fun, but to clear vermin. First I have to get Rosie inoculated against Weil's disease, which wild rats can carry.
 
Gosh guys, I'm sorry. You know Rich has been having problems with squirrels and being the helpful type that I am I thought this was more of a public service announcement. I want to be the first to say that if any of you laughed when that first squirrel went flying, well, you're simply going to hell.

Michael suggested that it might be ok if there were a net to catch them. How about if there were a 2 x 4 to make sure the flight was short and painless?






Lord, I apologize for that there comment. Please bless the starving Pigmy's in North Dakota.
 
Hmmm, an arm like object throwing another object airborne
for entertainment..??..
I only have 1 word regarding that.....


PULL!
 
wade said:
Please bless the starving Pigmy's in North Dakota.
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I rarely literally laugh out loud at the funny stuff I find on the interent, but this one got me. Thanks wade.

As for flying rodents. If you've spent any amount of time in a tree stand, you'd know that squirrels fling themselves from higher, fall further, and hit the ground harder than absolutely anything I saw in Wade's video.

If you want to start talking cruelty to animals, mother nature is lot crueler than anything in wade's video. But of course that's out of sight, out of mind. :shrugs:

D80
 
I don't care what any indviduals do to entertain themselves in their spare time, whether it be flinging squirrels in the air or feeding a snapping turtle live rats. It's not my life, not my animals, so I really don't care what anyone does so long as they aren't breaking the law.

With that said, there are a few itsy-bitsy issues...

First, there is a HUGE difference between shooting a squirrel and "dispatching" of them as nuisances, and flinging them through the air to potentially be injured, while laughing joyfully and sipping on a beer. I ain't saying either one is right OR wrong, but they certainly are not one in the same.

Second, I find very little difference between taking pleasure in this sort of torture as in many other sorts of torture human beings regularly subject animals to, purely as a means of entertainment and comedy. Namely any form of torture that involves directly and intentionally inflicting pain on a living animal simply so you can your friends can sit around laughing about it over a few beers.

It may not show anything gross or disgusting, but I don't see a whole lot of difference between this and many, many other videos showing simiilar behaviors that are ridiculed and reviled on this forum.

Anyone remember the video of the kid throwing the bunnies around before he fed them live to his boas? Folks pitched a fit over that, and at least that kid made sure the bunnies weren't just injured and left to die a slow painful death due to a broken femur, internal bleeding, or infected laceration from their falls.

What about the kid that fed the live rats to...well...take your pick, as there were several different live rat feeding videos shared here,that were subsequently ridiculed, and the makers accused of everything from animal cruelty to sociopathy.

I'm not judging what anyone does in their own yard with their own pests OR pets, and I'm not judging what anyone considers "entertainment" in the comfort of their own home. That's for y'all to decide for yourselves. I'm just saying that there really isn't a whole lot of difference as far as I can see...

I guess it's not really about what gets taped and posted, but who decides to post it that determines what is acceptable and what isn't? :shrugs:
 
Chris, thank you for your well thought out response. I'm glad that you are so open minded and not judgmental. I wasn't clear on what it was really about.
 
Candy_Cane1 said:
Sorry for jumpin' to conclusions :)
I agree, im just bad about..well, being the morality police. :fullauto: again, my apologies :) I actually dont see how they got away with doing this without repercussions of course there are states where it's OK to hunt feral cats as game animals.
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I dont know of any state that considers feral cats as game animals, but I know there are several that consider them as pests/vermin. Hopefully more states will see feral cats as the plague that they are and consider them as such. Feral cats, IMO, should not be launched for enjoyment, but should be killed on site. :fullauto:
 
As for squirrels falling from great heights and being uninjured, one has to remember that they are subject to gravity and thus fall at a constant rate of speed. Their bodies have naturally been designed to withstand a fall like that for the most part because its a risk of their enivronment. There are proven reasons why animals falling from heights can walk away with few or no injuries. In this case, its being shot horizontally through the air at an uncontrolled rate of speed so its body has no chance to adjust to the momentum. Its potential for injury is far greater, possibly leading to a slow, painful death. That's just cruel to any animal. Funny at first, sure, but cruel.

Oh, and the music sucked. :p
 
mike17l said:
I dont know of any state that considers feral cats as game animals, but I know there are several that consider them as pests/vermin. Hopefully more states will see feral cats as the plague that they are and consider them as such. Feral cats, IMO, should not be launched for enjoyment, but should be killed on site. :fullauto:
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And who's fault is that they're feral in the first place? Just sayin'.
 
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dionythicus said:
As for squirrels falling from great heights and being uninjured, one has to remember that they are subject to gravity and thus fall at a constant rate of speed.
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You are referencing the idea of terminal velocity. Once they reach terminal velocity (based on the force of gravity and air resistance), they do maintain a constant velocity. However, squirrels have different terminal velocities depending on shap, mass, etc. If you force them to move faster than their terminal velocity, then air resistance will slow them down. However, they do fall faster and faster until terminal velocity is obtained.


On cats, it's funny. A medium-sized fall is more dangerous than a LONG fall. A medium sized fall has them twisting and turning in panic and often hitting the ground other than feet first. At those speeds, it's dangerous. A longer fall (like 10 stories) has them falling slow enough to usually live (some broken bones) because they've stopped panicking and manage to land feet first at a slow enough velocity to not splatter them. ;)
 
Curiosity flung the squirrel.

You can see in quite a few of the clips that the squirrel runs away after the landing.

I also thought that a few times it was the same squirrel because they were more cautious trying to get whatever was in the slingshot.
 
KJUN said:
You are referencing the idea of terminal velocity. Once they reach terminal velocity (based on the force of gravity and air resistance), they do maintain a constant velocity. However, squirrels have different terminal velocities depending on shap, mass, etc. If you force them to move faster than their terminal velocity, then air resistance will slow them down. However, they do fall faster and faster until terminal velocity is obtained.
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All of this science is hurting my head, lol.

To clarify my point... I do find it cruel to catapult squirrels to a possible slow and suffering death. I just see a lot of ways for the squirrels to break their bones and suffer. However, I don't find the posting of this video to be anything like some of the other said videos that have been posted and labeled cruel. The video of the snapping turtle feeding was just sick. Don't ask for why I find it different, I just do, and the intent of the person taking the video had far more disturbing intentions that the creator of this video. Whoever came up with this idea was probably just innocently inventing a humorous squirrel repellent, and I'd be lying to myself if I didn't chuckle a little bit once the squirrel catapult was set in motion (in a cartoony "look at that squirrel fly" sort of way). But the thought after was that the squirrel really could have gotten hurt, suffer, and die a slow death. For that, I think that the invention was a bit cruel to the squirrels. Like I said, maybe test the catapult out on a non-living squirrel sized object, then setup a net (volleyball?) to safely soften the impact.

Bottom line____ I saw the video. I laughed. I immediately felt bad for the squirrel. I think they should have some sort of safety net to not cause injury and suffering to it. Then I'd laugh again.

By NO means do I find the creators of this video as sick individuals. I believe it was a harmless creation, that unfortunately wasn't thought out enough to not cause suffering to the animals. Are they twisted tortures like some of the other videos that showcase animals suffering? No, not in my opinion at least. The intention appeared to be WAY different.
 
luckycharm318 said:
Curiosity flung the squirrel.

You can see in quite a few of the clips that the squirrel runs away after the landing.

I also thought that a few times it was the same squirrel because they were more cautious trying to get whatever was in the slingshot.
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Running away after the "landing" has less to do with the health of the squirrel than it does the with the incredible adrenaline dump that animal takes as it flies through the air. I've seen human get hit by cars and walk off on a broken femur due to shock and adrenaline. Deer get shot in the heart and run off as if nothing happened...until they die 250 yards down canyon.

Just because the squirrel doesn't flatten like a pancake and die instantaneoously does NOT mean it is uninjured. Internal injuries, broken bones, internal bleeding, head trauma...Plenty of reasons why an animal might have the ability to flee the scene and still die later as a direct result of this torture and abuse.
 
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