S.O's feelings with animals/pets

[Cattsy]

Lets just say this...in our current society, my view on relationship isn't very popular anymore. But what is popular now is divorce. Ironic

I'm so with you there!! When I tell other women that I WANT a man stronger than me that can lead and protect and CHERISH his family and his home, they think I missed the train :shrugs: LOL

 

[EsotericForest]

I'm so with you there!! When I tell other women that I WANT a man stronger than me that can lead and protect and CHERISH his family and his home, they think I missed the train :shrugs: LOL

Clever way to put it. My wife says the exact same thing, and we date for 3 years before we got married...never had any serious problems or even threatened to break up. I have liked women in the past who wanted the leadership role in the relationship, and what I find is that it just increases the conflict. One role isn't more important than the other, they're just different. The problem is that our society has a warped view of what leadership is. It's something to be craved, and sought after. Nobody takes into mind that it also has extreme responsibility to go along with it.

I know you aren't a Christian, but just go along with me on this. I can respect that we have a difference of opinion, but I think we can still hear eachother out maturely . I went to a marriage conference in March, and it was a Christian based conference. One of the things that was brought up was the topic of "headship" or "leadership" if you will. In the Bible, God designates the man to lovingly, and sacrificially lead his family, and to be the "head" of the household. The key word there is sacrificially. He's supposed to give a lot away in order to lead his wife and children...it's not exactly and easy job if done properly. As a Christian, I believe that I will answer to God on how well I led my wife, and my children. The analogy that was used at the conference was this...

A man is the head of the household, and when it is all said and done, and they stand before God...if the relationship was not taken care of, and the relationship ultimately failed...then "heads" will roll.

I felt this was an interesting way to put it, and I find it to be somewhat inspiring to treat my wife the way she should be treated, and to lead our relationship in the correct direction...with her counsel of course . My wife really has a good understanding of this, and I appreciate that. She really helps to build me up every day to do my best, and to step into the role that I feel God created me to fill. It's very easy for men to want to just step back and let the woman run the show...and it's fairly common for a woman to crave that position. Unfortunately when that happens I feel the relationship gets flipped on its head. Many of you have encountered the couple where the woman makes all the decisions, and the man just sits back and takes them. Those kind of couples never seem very happy. Not to say the man is to make all the decisions when he's the head of the relationship...but it seems when that role is taken by the woman, it gets a bit abused. No man wants to marry an overbearing, controlling wife. Sorry ladies

 

[Dinah]

Mostly because he thinks that all relationships should be like his parents. Mom stays home, dad brings home the bacon, makes the rules, mom and kids obey. Which is all fine and dandy, except I have a job, make money, bought a house, and don't have to rely on anyone.

As a stay at home mom I would like to reject the notion that it is fine and dandy to consider people who do not earn a visible wage as second class citizens (this does not excuse bums who mooch off their boy/girlfriend I am talking about when it is decided as a family to have a stay at home spouse). Whether you make a wage or not you are still an adult who gets to make choices for yourself, and if in your family it is arranged that you are the stay at home parent, then you should have the same type of access and budget constraints as the working spouse . The work I do is important to my family and my husband would never use it against me to try and control my spending or hobbies or anything else likes that, at least not if he values being married to me.

The women I know who are sufficiently emotionally competent to be married don't need leaders; they need equal partners.
In my opinion, the women I know who need leaders aren't ready to be getting married.

There is one (but only one that I can thing of) occasion where as a married women I need a leader. When we are waking through some of the more swampy and wooded areas of the property I need my husband to lead so he can make sure the way is clear of spider webs. Otherwise when walking into spider webs is not involved, I need a partner, companion, friend, lover, confidant, and cheerleader but not a leader. I am not a horse or a sheep I am able to navigate and propel myself.

What is wrong with saying it the other way "The only reason a man would need to have his hands on the proverbial steering wheel is because of pride." Why is it a mans job to lovingly lead his family? What makes a man more qualified for that than a women? In our family we divide responsibilities based on who is good at what. So what makes a man more qualified?

 

[Cattsy]

I know you aren't a Christian, but just go along with me on this. I can respect that we have a difference of opinion, but I think we can still hear eachother out maturely . I went to a marriage conference in March, and it was a Christian based conference. One of the things that was brought up was the topic of "headship" or "leadership" if you will. In the Bible, God designates the man to lovingly, and sacrificially lead his family, and to be the "head" of the household. The key word there is sacrificially. He's supposed to give a lot away in order to lead his wife and children...it's not exactly and easy job if done properly. As a Christian, I believe that I will answer to God on how well I led my wife, and my children.

I may not be christian but when it comes to marriage, and relationships, I think that the bible has some good things to say Actually was browsing around today looking for something else entirely and came across a christian site that had an interestng "list" of things to keep in mind with a relationship and I thought that no matter what your beliefs they were some interesting things to think about so I'll repost them here.

~ Never both be angry at once.
~ Never talk *at* one another.
~ Never yell at one another, unless the house is on fire.
~ Let each one strive to yield more often to do the wishes of the other.
~ Let self-denial be the daily aim and practice of each.
~ Never taunt with a past mistake.
~ Neglect the whole world rather than one another.
~ Never make a remark at the expense of one another.
~ Never part for a day without kind words to think of during absence.
~ Never meet without a loving welcome.
~ Never let the sun go down on your wrath.

 

[desertanimal]

Lets just say this...in our current society, my view on relationship isn't very popular anymore. But what is popular now is divorce. Ironic

I think this is oversimplication. Divorce is more common now, certainly. What is also more common is for women to be able to get out of relationships that aren't working for them without having to prove that their husband is cheating on them or holding their heads in the toilet. Back when divorce wasn't common, women didn't have that option to leave marriages very readily. Perhaps you see the current state of affairs as a bad thing. I think the fact that women have the choice to stay in good relationships and to leave bad ones as a good thing. Divorce is certainly no worse a fate than being stuck in a relationship that is not functioning well for one partner.

Divorce vanishingly rare in conservative Islamic cultures, but I don't know too many American women who would choose to be in that kind of marriage.

The only reason a woman would NEED to have her proverbial hands on the steering wheel, would be due to pride.

The only reason a man would NEED to have his proverbial hands on the steering wheel all of the time would be due to pride.

On the other hand, it is entirely conceivable and, in fact, quite likely, that a particular woman with a particular husband will be a better driver than he in certain situations.

I believe Dinah has raised the same point in different words when she asked, "What makes a man better at leading all of the time?"

 

[danielle]

Man did this go off topic,lol. On topic my hubby hates animals....and we have a zoo I care for financially, cleaning, training, walking, feeding..... At first he didn't want a dog and then I found out as a child he loved labs. So I compromised and we got a chocolate lab- that was nine years ago. Then I wanted a gecko- mind you just one and he tried to put his foot down, but he said fine to just 1. 50+ geckos, another dog, and 11 snakes later he has given up. He doesn't understand why I love animals so much, but he does understand they are part of my happiness as a person, and my happiness is important to him as is his to me. He loves sports, beer, fishing, and golf and I love animals- so I ignore his obsessions accepting them and he in turn respects me in the same way.

A relationship isn't about one person directing the things that makes the other happy- it's about accepting what makes that person happy and within reason allowing it I have one room in our home that is all mine and I can fill it with as many animals I can afford and care for. In turn he has a den with a movie screen TV and booming surround sound that makes me want to scream. At the end of the day we are both happy because we don't harp on the small stuff. 1 snake or 5 you deserve a wall that is yours filled with the things that make you happy and P.S no man can make you return anything- that in the end is your choice. Mine tried that, through a tantrum and went to mommies for a weekend, and finally figured out if one stinking room can make me happy it was way better than living on his mothers couch. Call his bluff you'll win

 

[kathylove]

The problem (IMO) is generalities...

IN GENERAL, MOST men TEND to be better at some things, and MOST women TEND to be better at other things. But assigning them roles based on those generalities can very often lead to illogical situations (remember the scene in Jurassic Park when the older guy thought he should run out to turn on the electricity instead of the younger, fitter woman "just because he was a man"?). Some women are better drivers (and leaders) than some men, and vice versa. Why not allow each one their natural strengths, and whatever works for them?

If a particular couple finds it helpful to follow Biblical rules, and both are happy, then I am very happy for them. But I sure wouldn't recommend it to every couple, no matter whether it suited them or not.

We celebrated our 30th wedding anniversary last year. From what I have seen with other couple I have known, we seem to have a better than average relationship (actually, IMHO, the best one I know, but I don't want to brag, lol!). And I believe it is because we care about each other enough to know when something is more important to the other person than to oneself, and to concede the point once that is realized. And the reason we are willing to do that is because we each know that it will be reciprocated when the "shoe is on the other foot". Negotiation is what it is all about, along with caring and appreciating each other. At least that has been true for us, and I think it would work for most people. Not every man is mature enough to be the unselfish and sacrificing model that the Bible requires. And not every woman is good at the traditional female roles, either.

I don't think I can call either of us the clear "leader" in every aspect of our lives. In areas that I know Bill has expertise or are of great importance to him, I step back and let him lead. And he does the same for me when I let him know it is very important. Neither one of us has "the last word" as the captain of a sports team probably does (I know nothing about sports, but I am guessing that to be true).

I say that each person and each couple is different, and that they should do whatever it takes to make them BOTH happy, whether that is a traditional relationship, or something really unusual, or somewhere in between.

 

[sweet~nichole~marie]

The best analogy I've seen for this is that in a relationship, you're both driving a train down the tracks. The woman is helping to make decisions on where they're going, as well as helping to keep the train running. The man as the leader has the job of keeping his hands on the steering wheel in order to steer them where they mutually agree they need to go.

And what if one day your wife says "Honey, I would like to take a more active role with the train. Why don't you scoot over and let me drive for awhile. I have the skills and want to use them?" Will you tell her to sit down and stay in her place?

Anyway . . . back to the OP's problem . . . . I would be very uncomfortable with someone who is not willing to listen to me and shuts me down like that. In my eyes, that is not showing love and respect. It is also not treating someone as their partner.

As it has been suggested by others, it sounds like you both really need to sit down and talk about what is going on. Both of you need to agree with some ground rules first. For example - letting each other have their say, even if it is something that you don't want to hear or makes you uncomfortable. Both of you need to be willing to speak honestly. He needs to be willing to let you discuss your wants, and he needs to explain what he is feeling, not just telling you "No"

I am very fortunate to have a SO that loves and accepts my animal addiction. I have a serious need to be surrounded by animals of various kinds. They help keep me sane and centered and I spend a lot of time with caring for them because it brings me joy. He may not share my fascination for snakes, but he knows how happy them make me and so doesn't mind that I have taken over one room in our house and turned it into the snake room. He actually loves to see me go in there and putter around with my snakes, cleaning and weighing them, because he knows it makes me happy. That is what it means to have a partner that accepts you and supports you, even if they don't share your passion for a particular hobby.

The only time Alastair cautions me against buying a new snake is if it might not be in our budget at the moment, which I feel is perfectly valid. But he usually says "why don't we wait until we have more money", not "No, you can have another one." Though, when I did call him 2 months ago and said I had found a dog I fell in love with, all he said was "Do you really want it?" even though we had agreed we would not get a fourth dog after our lab died.

I honestly don't know if I could stay with him if he tried to tell me what to do all the time. We have been together for 9 years, but that does not give him the right to dictate what I do . . . just like it does not give me the right to do the same to him. We don't even have the desire to do that with each other, because it is not the kind of relationship either one of us wants.

Don't get me wrong, we still have our problems, just like anyone. Thankfully, it is just not about the pets. We have 4 dogs, 3 cats, a turtle, 25 snakes, 3 pet rats, rat/mice feeder colonies, hissing cockroaches, and 2 fish tanks. He only had an outdoor cat growing up while I grew up on a cattle ranch with horses and a mom who bred labs and discus. He has learned to love all the animals and now takes great joy in the dogs. His mom thinks we are crazy

I don't really know if this helps at all. But I do caution you to not just let it go. You are obviously very upset about it based on you comments here and feel that he is not listening to you. I can't imagine that is how you want your relationship to continue. Ask yourself: Is this how you want to spend the next 10 years of your life? Being treated like a child by the man who is supposed to be your partner? If you are not ok with that, then you need to do something about it now . . . .because it will not go away on its own, and it will only get worse. There must be mutual respect in a relationship, and I am sorry, but right now it does not sound like there is. He may have valid reasons for not wanting you to get a snake, but he is not telling you those reasons. He is just telling you "No". That is not acceptable. You are not a child and he is not your father. . . . or your leader.

 

[wretchedprocess]

Wow, Taz, I feel bad about complaining about Noah's resistance to my snakey leanings now. I have it nowhere near as bad as you do, apparently. And I imagine that my purple hair and spiderweb tattoo probably didn't help his impression of snake owners, now that I know he has a problem with that kind of thing. You might not think I'm weird, but I'm gonna bet he does! Eek.

While I am willing to respect the opinions of Esotericforest and Cattsy, however much of a bad taste some of the ideas expressed may leave in my own mouth, I'm not sure that they will be of benefit to the OP. Since she's already having difficulty making her voice heard in her marriage, using terms like "leader" may not be the best idea here. While it's fairly clear that the two of you mean something else by it, most of us DO tend to think of a "leader" as someone whose opinions are to be taken as law and followed no matter what. Someone who is feeling that she's not being listened to may take your comments as a sort of justification for her husband's behaviour, and walk away feeling that she's being told she doesn't have the right to be listened to. Again, I know that's not what you're trying to say, but sometimes when one is in a difficult situation it's harder to tease out the shades of meaning in someone's language and get at what they're actually going for rather than what it sounds like initially.

In addition, it sounds as though the two of you intentionally signed up for relationships in which the man was meant to be the "leader". Many of us do not. If that's not what the OP planned for, then it doesn't matter what you think is Right. What matters is what's right for her, and the fact that her agency is being taken away suggests that this relationship is not it. Even if she wants a "leader", I submit that this may not be the correct one.

 

[oneirogenesis]

Well I might not be making myself clear on one thing, and that is that my wife can tell me where I need to steer the train. She can make a decision, and I can follow through with it. The only reason a woman would NEED to have her proverbial hands on the steering wheel, would be due to pride. In marriage the woman has her responsibilities, and the man has his responsibilities. They compliment eachother. One of the jobs the man has is to responsibly, and lovingly lead his family. What's wrong with that?

What is wrong with it is entering other peoples' relationships and imposing your views on how they should work. It isn't right to suggest that incompatible personalities should stay together and be unhappy with each other because you personally think that their relationship roles should be predefined for them. I completely respect that in your marriage, you consider it your responsibility to act as leader in the sense that you have described. It sounds like things are working well for you and your wife, and I can see that there is a lot of deeply serious thought behind the roles you play. However, such a framework would bode horribly in my own relationship and I would certainly be happier alone were my boyfriend to try and "lead" me, sacrificially or not.

I consider no one responsible for me outside of myself and I would never ask my boyfriend to accept responsibility for me. Neither of us would be happy playing the roles you have described. I lead myself, he leads himself, and we are as individuals accountable for our own actions. To use your train metaphor, my ideal relationship would actually be two separate trains running in the same direction. As I respect the framework of your relationship and the religious beliefs that help to define it, I would ask that you respect the more untraditional relationships and spiritual beliefs of others.

Back onto the original topic, this whole thing had me thinking of a story my father once shared with me. He told me of a woman who took up yoga and had her life completely turn around for the better. She became so passionate about her yoga teaching and practice that she realized she would never be happy in a relationship with someone who did not participate in it with her. Fortunately for her, she met the right man and as far as I know they have been happy together and sharing their passion for many years. For those of you struggling with your SO's, you may have to ask yourself the same difficult question: Will I ever be totally happy with someone who does not share, or at least appreciate my passion? Don't forget that your passions, interests and hobbies are all a fundamental part of who you are.

 

[kathylove]

Actually, I think this somewhat meandering discussion is GREAT for the OP...

I think a discussion like this shows exactly how widely SUCCESSFUL partnerships (that is, relationships in which both partners are happy with the situation) can vary. If she is trying to decide what she really wants out of life and relationships, I think this discussion can help her think "outside the box" to properly evaluate her own position. And her own position, and what will make her happy (and finding the partner who will be made happy with the same philosophy of life and relationships) is really her only concern.

Hope this has been helpful in sorting out your own thoughts!

 

[wretchedprocess]

You know, you make a very good point. I hadn't thought of it that way.

 

[EsotericForest]

I'm just going to drop out of this debate, because I feel like I'm climbing an imaginary hill and making no progress. I have my opinions on this, while most of you don't agree. Not much I can say or do to change your mind.

 

[kathylove]

It is true that I don't agree with you (for my OWN relationship), BUT...

I think it was a great idea to present your views in such a well written way. The relationship that has worked for you could be EXACTLY what some current or future reader of this thread may need and want. Or it could serve to jell their ideas on what they DON'T want. But either way, presenting divergent views in a well thought out, non-antagonistic way is very valuable to the discussion, IMHO.

Thanks for your participation!

 

[desertanimal]

I'm just going to drop out of this debate, because I feel like I'm climbing an imaginary hill and making no progress. I have my opinions on this, while most of you don't agree. Not much I can say or do to change your mind.

Well, you haven't deigned to answer the question fundamental to the discussion of your relationship framework, even though it has been asked of you, which is: do you think a man always better at leading than his wife is, and if so, what makes it so?

 

[vetusvates]

I'm so with you there!! When I tell other women that I WANT a man stronger than me that can lead and protect and CHERISH his family and his home, they think I missed the train :shrugs: LOL

Cattsy, I want a man just like you described. But only stronger than me when I get tired of being stronger than him. I'll even freely let him lead to his heart's desire, on every day of the week that begins with "Z". Protect and cherish = Good. Oh yeah, and he will be doing most of the driving,...and all stuff involving the kitchen.

 

[desertanimal]

LOL! I want a man like that too, Eric. Every time I move. I just want him to be someone else's husband!

And for the record, protecting IS one thing I think men are almost always better at, so they should definitely do it!

 

[sweet~nichole~marie]

Alastair is very protective of me and likes to take care of me, but he does that without telling me what to do or having to be in control <3 <3 <3

 

[Taz Monkey]

Well, I see like 4 pages have appeared since I last checked this thread. To the person that is the stay at home mom, i definitely was not putting down stay at home moms. Hell, if I wanted kids, I'd love to be a SAHM. But i don't. And I like working. I think SAHM have the hardest job on earth, not one that I want.
And since i started all this yesterday I mentioned that I wanted some kind of pretty shelf, in the same corner than I have Fluffy's viv, but one that would house like four 20 gal long vivs. And luke offered to build me one. So who knows.

 

[Cattsy]

Cattsy, I want a man just like you described. But only stronger than me when I get tired of being stronger than him. I'll even freely let him lead to his heart's desire, on every day of the week that begins with "Z". Protect and cherish = Good. Oh yeah, and he will be doing most of the driving,...and all stuff involving the kitchen.

You made me giggle!