...sigh! Fat Boy? or Gravid Gal?

[sierraherps]

We have been back and forth on whether Whytsnake is male or female. We don't have any local vets who I would take him to to be probed so we figured we could do it by "Breeding Trials". So he/she has spent time with both our Proven Upper Keys male (They touch and both twitch) And... our recently sheded female stripe (they touch, Whytsnake twitches)

Now... he has refused food for nearly 3 weeks, (he has NEVER refused food in the 4 yrs we have had him) he has been active like most snakes are during "this" season & yet he/she has gotten HUGE in the bottom half of his/her body. He/She actually spent nearly a week sharing a viv with the Keys male about a month ago...Back when we still believed hewas a male. So I am just going to post a pic here I took just now, and ask YOUR opinions on whether I am nuts... Or does this snake look WAY GRAVID?!?! (oh yeah, I tried the Jeff Corwin "Palpating" thing while holding Whytsnake three days ago & keeping in mind I have neved held a gravid snake before, It truly felt like SOMETHING was there, approx every inch or so, my finger would "dip" into him/her just a hair, then another little bump then dip...ect... But as my hubby says.. That doesn't make ANYTHING conclusive... Sooo... I know this is impossible to be for sure... But I welcome ANY opinions and/or comments you could offer...

Thankx in Advance...Mixed Up Mary Ann

 

[Sharon]

A better picture would help. If she is gravid, her bottom 1/2-1/3 would be swollen, you'd be able to see space between the scales. Feeling bumps sounds like eggs, personally. Now I'll step away and allow the more experienced breeders to have their say lol

Edit: Here is a pic of a gravid corn taken from Bill Love's website

 

[sierraherps]

How about this one? I just took it... Sorry about the glare... I tried 4 times and this was the best of the bunch.

 

[sierraherps]

And YEAH!! Big time swollen.. If that snake you just posted is "Really Gravid" Then Whytsnake is as GRAVID as two or three snakes at the same time! LOL

 

[Eli173]

I'd suggest putting a lid on the next box (with a hole in the lid) so she will feel more hidden and secure in there. Just a suggestion.

 

[Nanci]

I just read something Kathy Love wrote about feeling for eggs. Let her crawl, in a relaxed manner, over your hand and into her viv. She says the snake needs to be relaxed for your fingers to dip into her belly- if you just hold her and run her through your hands and try to feel, she could be too tense for you to feel anything.

 

[sierraherps]

I'd suggest putting a lid on the next box (with a hole in the lid) so she will feel more hidden and secure in there. Just a suggestion.

That "next box" I just put in there with warm damp shredded coconut shell, under the heat... JUST IN CASE... she might be looking for somewhere to lay eggs... She has 2 hiding holes in there also... Her fav is a terra cota under the plant dish upside down... (It is also the ONLY thing we have at the moment BIG enough to fit the whole body in! LOL

But thank you...

 

[sierraherps]

I just read something Kathy Love wrote about feeling for eggs. Let her crawl, in a relaxed manner, over your hand and into her viv. She says the snake needs to be relaxed for your fingers to dip into her belly- if you just hold her and run her through your hands and try to feel, she could be too tense for you to feel anything.

Well THATS awesome! Because that is basically exactly what I did! I just held my hand under her belly and she slippered over it at her own pace... Then she turned around and went the other way over my hand! LOL Up until this last X-mas... Whytsnake was our ONLY, and VERY pampered and loved snake! So we have a special relationship that I have done my best not to let falter just because we have more snakes to care for.

So THANK YOU!! Always good to hear I did something right when I am basically just guessing! LOL

 

[sierraherps]

Hey Eli?? Are you suggesting that she would feel better about "Laying her eggs" if she had more privacy? I'm sorry, It just dawned on me that might have been what you meant... and not that you were telling me she needed a hide... You know when I first put that in there... She went RIGHT to it and DUG tunnels through it for about 45 minutes! It was cute as hell to watch, as she plowed the warm wet sustrate from one side to the other and then dug down into it with her nose... Is that behavior indicitive to Gravid females by the way?? I know in the wild they look for "Natural compost" kind of places... Under rotting leaves and such as they generate warmth... OMG!! So that behavior actualy could be another clue to her sex!!! right?? MAN! I wish either "SHE" would lay eggs... or "HE" would show interest in one of our "PROVEN" females!
AAAHHHHRRRRGGG!
LOL

 

[bitsy]

approx every inch or so, my finger would "dip" into him/her just a hair, then another little bump then dip...ect...

Yep, agree with above. I'd stake good money that those are eggs.

And yes, privacy when laying is usually appreciated. Digging about in a potential laying place is also a classic symptom. She might pop in and out for a few days, but if she's about to lay, she'll eventually settle in it.

 

[crackerhead]

If she is no longer shaped like a loaf of bread; round on top and flat on the bottom she is probably gravid. When she runs over your hand her underside will be far squishier than usual. Has she shed yet? Once she does then the laying count down begins. Of course, not all snakes read the manual. I've had females that lay before the shed. Good Luck and keep us posted.
Terri

 

[dizeedoo]

I'm so addicted to these stories. It was really cool reading now all in one go because you started off calling him a he and ended up with calling her a she. I can't think of a lovelier way to find out he is a girl and about to be a mommy. I can't wait to see how this ends up. Please keep us all posted.

BTW you people are awesome. I never read without learning something cool. The value of shared experience can't be underestimated. very cool.

 

[Maize411]

Congrats on the surprise pregnant female! :0)

 

[chia44]

i saw a video of sexing on youtube once... is that not an option? they sexed in two ways, one of probing, but the other was rolling back from the tail till the "penes" popped out if it was a male, or somethign else in a female. Is that not an option?

 

[rolandslf]

Congrats, from everything I've read you have a gravid female on your hands.
As for sexing, not advisable at this stage of proceedings.

Ciao

 

[sierraherps]

i saw a video of sexing on youtube once... is that not an option? they sexed in two ways, one of probing, but the other was rolling back from the tail till the "penes" popped out if it was a male, or somethign else in a female. Is that not an option?

Thankx for your comment Chia, but no... as I said earlier, the 1 Vet we have here that "LISTS" reptile health in their ad, I have past experience with and I would not trust them to trim my dogs nails! LOL kinda, but seriously..IDIOTS!

And from all I have read... "Popping" is ONLY recomended for jouveniles...But even if it wasn't, I don't think I would take the chance on my first try at it on what could be a "Female" with her first clutch developing... Just doesn't sound like a good idea...

But I still THANK YOU for responding... As someone above you in this thread mentioned... It is truly amazing how MANY people there is here that are willing to help and share opinions and ideas and experience with those of us who need it most! Believe me when I say how MUCH I both treasure and appriciate each of you!!!!

 

[sierraherps]

And now... The "Latest Update"...
Hubby came home last night & decided since our female stripe has shed and is also refusing food and going NUTS in her tank... We should try one last time joining her and "Whytsnake". His logic being, we KNOW the female stripe has just come into season, so if Whytsnake goes for her... Then HE is a HE... And if not... It is one step closer to proving HE is a SHE! lmao! So we did... For about 2 hours... Katchy (female) rubbed on, dug under & slipped over Whytsnake... Whytsnakes reaction? MAJOR TWITCHING while hiding "HER" nose in the corner, running away from Katchy & attempting to TUNNEL beneath the tank! LMAO!!! Eventually, Katchy gave up and they EACH went their seperate corners!
SUMATION: Katchy is horny!!! Whytsnake is.... well, I SAY FEMALE... Sean shrugged and said... "Maybe it is a She, guess we will know if "She/He" lays eggs huh."

I know he is the old pro, but it has been OVER 15 yrs since he was actively breeding snakes, and to this day, when he talks about those days, he talks all about "Big Momma" the Albino Python, birthing 50 babies.. And his Kingsnakes... And very little about the joint effort he was apart of in the "Sunglow Corn" thing...Other than his female laying eggs late one night... Him figuring he would wait for them to harden up before removing them, going to bed and waking up to NO EGGS...She had ATE THEM! lmao And even he admits... As far as his Corns went... They came to him sexed, so there was never any doubt who was who... Me, however, having little to no "snake" breeding experience, and having come here to people I consider "EXPERTS"... Am agreeing with the concensus!! No doubts left in my mind!!!

So... to me the only question left is... Did those eggs get fertilized!!! I would like to believe that since our only MALE at this point "OBEE1" (aka OH-BAMA) has shared Whytsnakes tank off and on for the last 2 months... That it HAS happened, you know like at night when we are sleeping?
Sean tells me that if fertilation does NOT take place...The female will eventually "absorb" the eggs back into her system... And logic tells me, that because of the SIZE of Whytsnakes lower half...(HUGE) fertilization most likely happened, as THAT is A LOT for a female to re=absorb!!
Your thoughts?

 

[Silvergrin]

Snakes will lay infertile clutches - I know I've gotten a few trying to give my ladies a break
But I don't think they'll lay their FIRST clutch unless bred?
Anyway, if Whitey has been with a male in the last 2 months, yeah, good chance her eggs are fertilized.

 

[crackerhead]

Snakes will lay infertile clutches - I know I've gotten a few trying to give my ladies a break
But I don't think they'll lay their FIRST clutch unless bred?
Anyway, if Whitey has been with a male in the last 2 months, yeah, good chance her eggs are fertilized.

I have a Charcoal that was given to me as a "male" that would not eat. I got it home, thawed a pink, tossed it in the little guy's cup and presto he ate. I offered to bring the animal back to the owner because obviously it ate just fine but he didn't want it. So 3 years later having never bother to sex it because I wasn't using it in any breeding projects she lays eggs. Eleven large infertile eggs. Man I was bent! All that wasted effort on her part. Given her determination to reproduce I'll breed her this year. I've also had females produce fertile eggs having not been bred since a fall hook-up. That's easily 8 month old sperm! Like I said before, they don't all follow the rules.
Terri

 

[Eli173]

Hey Eli?? Are you suggesting that she would feel better about "Laying her eggs" if she had more privacy? I'm sorry, It just dawned on me that might have been what you meant... and not that you were telling me she needed a hide... You know when I first put that in there... She went RIGHT to it and DUG tunnels through it for about 45 minutes! It was cute as hell to watch, as she plowed the warm wet sustrate from one side to the other and then dug down into it with her nose... Is that behavior indicitive to Gravid females by the way?? I know in the wild they look for "Natural compost" kind of places... Under rotting leaves and such as they generate warmth... OMG!! So that behavior actualy could be another clue to her sex!!! right?? MAN! I wish either "SHE" would lay eggs... or "HE" would show interest in one of our "PROVEN" females!
AAAHHHHRRRRGGG!
LOL

Yeah, I was meaning to lay eggs in. Unfortunately the tunneling is done by both boys and girls.