Snake with kidney problems - experience?

[SnakeAround]

My almost 9 year old miami phase male Perseus was diagnosed with partial kidney failure a week ago He just seemed to get weaker, his muscle tension decreased and he got way less alert and active. It progressed very slowly, thinking back over the last few months but at one point I just knew it was not my imagination or him just getting older/calmer/more lazy. I bought him in 2005 so I do know his 'personality' you know.

After talking with the vet I decided to see how he reacts to medication, to see if he can have a couple of months or of we are very lucky a couple of years more to live a worthy life (if one can say that about snakes). It's impossible to predict what it will be, he might as well just perish.

I started medication right after we got home van the vet, he seems to be a tad bit more active and alert but the muscle tension, especially in his lower half seems to get less...

So today was the 8th day I administered it. It's just 0.23 ml so it's easy to do but yesterday I though I might have made him choke a bit, he gasped a bit, breathed a couple of times heavily (I could hear the air being pushed out) and then he seemed ok. I was a bit mad at myself for troubling him more then necessary by choking him a bit somehow but hey I'm only human you know.. but then today it happened again and he reacted way worse. While he was breathing heavily I put him in his viv, where he threw his head/neck around a couple of times quite violently with open mouth, he hit the glass door a bit and scooped a bit of bedding with his mouth. It screamed seizure to me but how would the administering of the medication cause that immediately and why only after a week?

Does anybody have any experience with snakes with kidney problems and allopurinol as a medication for it?

He is one of my favs, it's gonna be hard watching him, hoping to see some progress, it can takes week before it does get better Not to mention having to think when it's more humane to let him go all the time.. it's the bad side of keeping animals :awcrap:

I'm also ok with people giving their opinion on if I should be trying to prolong his life, since snakes are not known to be conscious in a way they can actually feel happy and enjoy life. But please don't expect me to discuss it actively, I will mostly just read what people have to say and consider useful insights if I see them. For me this is not an ethics discussion, I'm merely trying to line up my conscience and my emotions though they are still changing with the day, so I can decide what to do when I need to.

 

[Johan13]

My almost 9 year old miami phase male Perseus was diagnosed with partial kidney failure a week ago He just seemed to get weaker, his muscle tension decreased and he got way less alert and active. It progressed very slowly, thinking back over the last few months but at one point I just knew it was not my imagination or him just getting older/calmer/more lazy. I bought him in 2005 so I do know his 'personality' you know.

After talking with the vet I decided to see how he reacts to medication, to see if he can have a couple of months or of we are very lucky a couple of years more to live a worthy life (if one can say that about snakes). It's impossible to predict what it will be, he might as well just perish.

I started medication right after we got home van the vet, he seems to be a tad bit more active and alert but the muscle tension, especially in his lower half seems to get less...

So today was the 8th day I administered it. It's just 0.23 ml so it's easy to do but yesterday I though I might have made him choke a bit, he gasped a bit, breathed a couple of times heavily (I could hear the air being pushed out) and then he seemed ok. I was a bit mad at myself for troubling him more then necessary by choking him a bit somehow but hey I'm only human you know.. but then today it happened again and he reacted way worse. While he was breathing heavily I put him in his viv, where he threw his head/neck around a couple of times quite violently with open mouth, he hit the glass door a bit and scooped a bit of bedding with his mouth. It screamed seizure to me but how would the administering of the medication cause that immediately and why only after a week?

Does anybody have any experience with snakes with kidney problems and allopurinol as a medication for it?

He is one of my favs, it's gonna be hard watching him, hoping to see some progress, it can takes week before it does get better Not to mention having to think when it's more humane to let him go all the time.. it's the bad side of keeping animals :awcrap:

I'm also ok with people giving their opinion on if I should be trying to prolong his life, since snakes are not known to be conscious in a way they can actually feel happy and enjoy life. But please don't expect me to discuss it actively, I will mostly just read what people have to say and consider useful insights if I see them. For me this is not an ethics discussion, I'm merely trying to line up my conscience and my emotions though they are still changing with the day, so I can decide what to do when I need to.

I can see you love your snake very much. You have to ask yourself, do you do this for him, or do you do this for yourself. If you can answer that, then you know what you need to do.

 

[bitsy]

The airway is a smal tube that opens in the floor of the mouth, whereas you'll be squirting the liquid suspension into the back of his throat (presumably?) - the actual act of giving him the meds shouldn't have obstructed his breathing or caused him to choke.

However, it definitely sounds like it's distressing him in some way. I can't think how unless actual contact with the liquid is painful in some way. Getting them to open their mouths can be awkward but it doesn't take much effort usully. Is he fighting you off vigorously before you get the blunt syrunge(?) in his mouth?

I'd be inclined to report the reaction to the vet before giving any more, and see if they've some across this before. I guess reptiles can be allergic to chemicals and meds in the same way that other animals and humans are.

 

[SnakeAround]

I wanted to contact the vet today but last night he died Probably he was to far gone or he had a rare reaction to it. A rare side effect can be epileptic seizures or neurological problems. It's better for him; he was too far gone or could not handle the medication. Without the medication he would have perished slowly anyway.

It was not difficult to give the fluid, he was pretty docile and opening his mouth was not too hard, I used a wooden thing that's used on people to see in their troath. The 2nd time he acted strange I knew it was not him choking on the fluid, I am pretty handy in giving the fluid orally and hardly any snake ever choked from me giving oral meds.

 

[bitsy]

I'm so sorry for your loss. You're right - it sounds like the kindest thing that could have happened. With kidney failure you were always fighting the odds.

He had six good years with you and was cared for deeply.

 

[SnakeAround]

Thanks bitsy, I'm happy to have two of his daughters developing eggs of him now He was the father of my weird tiny scales, maybe you remember the thread about them. I'm very gald that I have a good change of seeing tiny scaled snakelets again this year, otherwise I would have to wait another 1 or 2 years to pair up the ones born in 2010.

 

[Dorgrim]

I had a rat snake that had organ failure that i had posted about on here. The snake was so small and so hard to do anything because of that, the poor baby just couldnt make it.
I had to go through the lethargy, the stop eating, and seizures then eventually paralysis. it was heart breaking.
its really hard to go through and i know exactly how you feel.
im so sorry for the little baby ;-;

 

[Johan13]

I wanted to contact the vet today but last night he died Probably he was to far gone or he had a rare reaction to it. A rare side effect can be epileptic seizures or neurological problems. It's better for him; he was too far gone or could not handle the medication. Without the medication he would have perished slowly anyway.

It was not difficult to give the fluid, he was pretty docile and opening his mouth was not too hard, I used a wooden thing that's used on people to see in their troath. The 2nd time he acted strange I knew it was not him choking on the fluid, I am pretty handy in giving the fluid orally and hardly any snake ever choked from me giving oral meds.

Sorry for the loss of your snake .

 

[SnakeAround]

Thanks people!

 

[Nanci]

I'm sorry for your loss, Barbara.

 

[lost_221]

I know How you feel

Hi there, My name is Tracy and I am new to the Forum.
I have a 10 year old male bubble gum corn snake and the other day I took him into the vet for a check up of his abscess and after three surgerys and a year of antibiotics, the abscess is showing no signs of healing, On top of that my vet said that he has kidney failure. He is showing all the signs your snake did. I totally know what you are going through, I found this site through yahoo and when I read your post, I started to cry because I know how you are feeling. All my prayers and support are with you, I have no way of knowing when he will pass and each day it gets harder to see him slowly perish. He has been the greatest friend I have ever known. If you would like to talk, please e-mail me at [email protected]..... It would be nice to have someone who is going through the same thing to talk to..I look forward to hearing from you..

sincerely

Tracy

 

[SnakeAround]

Hi Tracy, it's sad what happened to your snake! Your perseverance to try to cure it is great!

The dead of my snake happened at the beginning of this year so I'm over it but I feel with you!

 

[lost_221]

Hey there, thank you for replying to my post..Thank you, I have tried everything to make him better, but The vet told me that something may have happened to him when he was younger and that's why he has had so much health issues. Before the abscess, he struggled with a respiratory infection a lot, he was sick 5 different times. and then 2 years later the abscess showed up, He was on meds for a year and three surgery's, and it just doesn't want to heal. I feel as though I let him down because I couldn't get him better. But I know that sometimes things just happen. I am so sorry to hear about your snake...The vet took him off of medication and now I just clean his abscess site with a disinfectant. He is more sleepy then he used to be, and I can tell his muscles are weak. Did your snake have a lump about 2 inches or so from his poop shoot but on the inside of his body? My vet told me that is his kidneys and when they are failing they swell, I was just wondering if your snake had the same thing....Thank you so much for taking the time to read and answer my posts, it truly means alot..