Something that has happened (not hypothetical)

[KJUN]

My feelings don't matter. Neither do yours. That was my point.

I for one have a lot of respect for the feelings of our fighting me. They do matter to me. As long as they are putting their lives on the line for me and my fellow Americans, their feelings DO matter. My family and I thank your brother, outcast, and everyone else. Many of us DO still care.

I don't disagree with Roy's intent (as I interpret it), however. He's the president whether we like it or not. The feelings of our troops don't matter - as long as he doesn't order the troops to violate the constitution or human rights - in that regard. ....at least not until the next election when we can let our feelings effect our choice on who's tag to punch! I do believe working for a president that at least appears to not respect the troops makes a job harder than it already is. Bad feelings make for a bad work place. Most of the soldiers I speak to share the "bad feeling vibes." Whether it is true or not about Obama's dislike of military people, it is sad that many feel like the "rumors" are true.

Hey, we finally agree on something !.

Ricky, you'd poke a rabid mongrel when it was sleeping and wonder why it turns around and bites you, wouldn't you? LOL.

 

[Roy Munson]

Odd.....most serious supporters of the second amendment have a lot dislike for Bush #1 than Bush #2. In fact, Bush #1 killed his chance for re-election when he screwed the 2A and those that supported him for his first election. I say its odd just because I haven't seen that particular view among my normal peers - I don't say its odd because I want to disagree with the statement. It just struck me as odd.

Maybe it's odd. It was just a meaningless feeling-- just an IMPRESSION-- as meaningless as any other feeling or impression that's been presented without evidence. That's all...

 

[Outcast]

Hey, we finally agree on something !.

LOL, yeah, that's odd.

Negative Roy, I'm not implying that you are lying. Its just you can tell different peoples opinion by what service they are in and what they normally did. You saying that your brother is an MP, clarifies a lot about his opinion. Most MP's I know hate their jobs. If he was stationed at Bagram, he was most likely air force security forces, am I correct? If so, about 70% of those guys hate it over there because they have to patrol around base and watch the flight line.

I was EOD, most of the guys in my career field love doing what we do and since deployments are our only "do the real job" time, we tend to enjoy our time in the sandbox blowing up stuff and shooting back when necessary. My first deployment I was stationed at Bagram but pushed out for a while. That was an interesting experience when my truck got blown up. Then my second deployment I was in Kandahar, that is where I got in my first and second firefight, the first lasting about 20 min, the second lasting 10 1/2 hours.

 

[KJUN]

I really didn't mean odd as in "wrong" or "bad," Roy. I just meant it as in "different" or "unusual"...TO ME. Interesting more that unsettling. ...and, for that, I thank you for pointing out your feelings.

 

[Roy Munson]

I don't worship gods, soldiers, preachers, leaders, or any other entities. Maybe that negates my opinions to some. I can live with that.

 

[Outcast]

I think I will go back and read this thread from the first post just to see how it evolves. It's interesting how things do that.

 

[Roy Munson]

No, my brother was Army. They operated the base, as far as I know. He's sort of an independent-thinker, so that may account for a few things too.

 

[Michael823]

I can't honestly say that I'd re-elect Obama again, and of course I hope that there's a better candidate in the next election, but I am still content with my decision to have voted for him in this past election. He may not be following the "right" path, but it's hard to plant your feet on thin ice.

I just know that a Palin/McCain lead country looked scary, and Obama seemed like someone who I could trust more. He's personable, charming, intelligent, and all of those things, which made him a more endearing choice for me. I still feel this way about Obama as a person (which shouldn't be all lost), but my hopes for true positive change have yet to appear under his administration.
Nobody could have predicted the current state of America, and it's hard to say that Obama wouldn't have been an excellent president in less turbulent times. Not that it's any excuse, as he's here now, and it IS his job to succeed as our president, but it would be hard to imagine any of the other candidates doing much better, given the current circumstances.

I haven't read much, if any, of this thread. I really could do without some of the arguing, name calling, etc... and that's why I've refrained (for the most part) from posting, so I skimmed, and figured it's coming around to a more generic topic of discussion.
I feel like the things that get lost all too often in these threads, is that we're all human. No one is more important than another, or should be held or regarded as more than human. Of course there are exceptions, but regardless of what anyone thinks, I'd say that we're all intelligent in our own right, work hard to succeed, and want everyone to prosper.

I feel like Tyflier, KJUN, Wade, etc... all have established views on this discussion. I don't have those yet, so in ways I maybe be more open to change, and in other ways more naive to believe that change is coming. There are times where I agree with all of you, and other times where I feel like some of you go very far off course, and the insults make it hard to gather what knowledge is there.

 

[Roy Munson]

McCain/Palin was a joke. The conservatives can't blame the public for choosing the lesser of evils in that last presidential election. If they don't like the current political climate, they can blame themselves for not presenting a reasonable challenge to it. C'mon now. Heyzeus Kristey! Let's be real. WHO f'd up?

 

[Roy Munson]

And now they have Michael Steele to set things right? And Romney and Palin are the future? I'm no conservative, but I think opposing views can yield better results than partisan bs. Out of concern for the future of our country, I hope conservatives can do better. I recently saw a poster refer to Obama as infinitely mediocre. Palin is infinitely inadequate. Get her out of the equation. See Rush as the retard he is. Take back your party from these embarrassing oafs!

 

[wilomn]

Didn't bush start this war without congressional permission?

 

[wade]

I don't think anyone is seriously looking a Palin other than herself. Romney isn't a joke, he could be a serious contender.

 

[Roy Munson]

I don't think anyone is seriously looking a Palin other than herself. Romney isn't a joke, he could be a serious contender.

I was referring (loosely) to polls. Romney IS no joke. He's done real time in the business sector. I'll admit bias against him. I unapologetically have big problems with Mormonism (even Reid's flavor). But I DON'T hate Romney (so long as his faith's cult crapola is kept in reasonable check). And his faith isn't really any sillier than any other (ok... Maybe a LITTLE sillier).

 

[TandJ]

I just want a roof, some land, and a rifle or two.. Did I mention I would not mind it being remote.. Did I mention, I have not really watched TV for most of my time in the US? *LOL*



tag4800

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[KJUN]

personable, charming, intelligent[/B], and all of those things, which made him a more endearing choice for me.

Look back over history. None of those characteristics necessarily means they are a good leader - or even one that won't feed their own people into the meat grinder.

Nobody could have predicted the current state of America, and it's hard to say that Obama wouldn't have been an excellent president in less turbulent times.

I disagree. Obama's policies are doing JUST what they did under FDR and Jimmy Carter. Haven't you heard Obama refereed to as "the black Carter?" The insult there is by calling him another CARTER - it has nothing to do with race. That's because his policies are pretty similar, and we are seeing the same results. HISTORY teaches us what to expect. It isn't good for America.

I'm not attacking you, but I do suspect you have a weak grasp of the REAL policies of the past that have failed. They are Obama's policies. Reagan pulled us out of Carter's mess. I'm scared there won't be another Reagan this time. I don't want to live through what it took us to get us out of FDR's mess.....especially not with Obama up there!

McCain/Palin was a joke. The conservatives can't blame the public for choosing the lesser of evils in that last presidential election.

The worst thing we can do is let the media pick which candidates run for the republican office. "We" need the ones the media does NOT like to run for office. I'm serious with this statement.

See Rush as the retard he is. Take back your party from these embarrassing oafs!

Using the "R-word" to be intentionally offensive to some? :roflmao:

I'll admit bias against him. I unapologetically have big problems with Mormonism (even Reid's flavor). But I DON'T hate Romney (so long as his faith's cult crapola is kept in reasonable check). And his faith isn't really any sillier than any other (ok... Maybe a LITTLE sillier).

I can't personally be prejudice against a candidate based on his religion. I don't even hate Obama because he is a Muslim. His lying about it to get elected IS part of the reason I despise him, but I would have hated him just as much if he was a Christian claiming to be a Muslim. The lie is bad - the religion isn't what bothers me.

Didn't bush start this war without congressional permission?

Impossible. Congress declares war, right? The president decides where to send troops. It's limited, though. It has been limited since before Bush got in office. Plus, go back and check and see who supported going into the sandlot in the beginning. Pretty much both parties did. It's just one party (not Bush's - there is your hint) that voted against giving them the supplies they needed to maximize their chance of success and minimize the potential loss of American lives.

.....or did you mean who started the warR?

 

[Roy Munson]

I can't personally be prejudice against a candidate based on his religion. I don't even hate Obama because he is a Muslim. His lying about it to get elected IS part of the reason I despise him, but I would have hated him just as much if he was a Christian claiming to be a Muslim. The lie is bad - the religion isn't what bothers me.

I can. I'm not convinced that BO is a Muslim. Most evidence seems to contradict that. Not that I care. Christianity, Islam, Purple-unicornism-- it's all the same to me. Dub-yah affected a cowboy accent to obscure his true CT origins. I didn't care about that either. A non-liar CAN NOT acheive that office.

 

[KJUN]

I did NOT believe he was, but I am fairly convinced that he is now. He's a traitor to the US because of his actions - not his religion. I don't care THAT much about it EXCEPT that he lied. Democrats seem to think it is OK to lie to get elected. Republicans might lie as much, but they at least recognize it ain't right.....lol. I guess that's marginally better. Or more hypocritical and therefor worse. I haven't decided yet.....

Anyway, whether you or I think he is a Muslim isn't relevant. The Muslim extremists act exactly like THEY believe he is a Muslim. That's bad enough in a time or war - the truth (whatever it is) may be less important than what they believe. I'm sure you already understand how I say their actions imply they believe him to be a Muslim, so I'll resist typing out the obvious and go to bed now. It's late, I'm still half dead with a cold, and I have to leave before daylight to make it to work in time for my morning lecture.

G'Night, everybody.
KJ

 

[wade]

It boggles my mind that Muslim is OK but Mormon isn’t. That doesn’t make any sense to me. Don’t misunderstand, I am not a Mormon and have no ties to them. You do remember that the Mormons were not involved in 9-11?

 

[Roy Munson]

It boggles my mind that Muslim is OK but Mormon isn’t. That doesn’t make any sense to me. Don’t misunderstand, I am not a Mormon and have no ties to them. You do remember that the Mormons were not involved in 9-11?

Who cares? Both worldviews are irrational. They're both symptoms of the same disease, and extremists from both groups have committed significant massacres against other American groups based on brainwashed dogma. (Read up.)

Extremists are extremists. Nothing like an exclusive deity to fire them up. I kinda like Jesus. I'm not convinced that he ever existed, but he's one of my favorite literary figures. Good guy, that one (or One, if you prefer).

 

[Michael823]

Look back over history. None of those characteristics necessarily means they are a good leader - or even one that won't feed their own people into the meat grinder.

True! I'm not saying that his charisma made him an inevitable successful president, but it was one selling point in my decision over McCain. And on that same note, I don't really equate leadership and politics in the first place.

I'm not attacking you, but I do suspect you have a weak grasp of the REAL policies of the past that have failed. They are Obama's policies. Reagan pulled us out of Carter's mess. I'm scared there won't be another Reagan this time. I don't want to live through what it took us to get us out of FDR's mess.....especially not with Obama up there!

Fair enough. I've never been highly interested in politics, and with the Obama/McCain candidacy being my first vote for president, I went with what little experience I had. The strongest (and only, up until the 08' election) political influence in my adulthood was the Bush administration, so my vote was mostly formatted against the "Change" (as I saw it) from that.