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Strange Behavior

Thanks for the reply Outcast, and the friendship invitation, appreciate both :) Would be nice to have you over to see my vivs, especially the ones I co-hab in :) Not that they are pieces of amazing natural set ups but I think they'll do for the 2 or 3 (juvenile) snakes I keep in them :) I have seen some very large vivs with more snakes than that at places I delivered or collected a snake, they usually where show case vivs in the living room, meant to be enjoyed by watching it, like an aquarium.

I do agree that a problem only is a problem when it occurs. With co-habbing a case of cannibalism or contamination of a viv is very obvious, and changing behavior is also a sign a snake might not like to be co-habbed. Of course I separate that snake. I do think that the other approach to be able to have more snakes in the same space, a rack system, has its disadvantages too. Most rack people do not put anything more than a water bowl and if the snake gets lucky, a hide in its tub. I seriouisly think that the lack of stimualtion, causes less movement, less muscle mass and a less than optimal condition in the snake. Since I had a disease in my collection that caused most casualties in the rack I was using at the time (no co-habbing), I decided they were not the way to go for me, despite the U.S. community over here. Who knows if their immune system isn't optimal in a rack because of havign no stimulation, being on news paper (without a hide) withotu anything to pay attention to? Many of my snakes love to hang out at their viv window and watch the world outside. I hope to be able to convince some more U.S.A. people that their might be another way to keep corns than the U.S.A. way, especially the more extreme 'believers' :)
 
I definitely have to say that my biggest problems with Cohabing, is the possibility of illness, cannibalism, and the stress it can cause. That said, I think that having an extremely large area for the snakes to roam is best case for people who want to cohab. And, by extremely large, I mean custom Viv large. Larger than a 75 or 125 gallon tank.
 
SnakeAround said:
I do agree that a problem only is a problem when it occurs. With co-habbing a case of cannibalism or contamination of a viv is very obvious, and changing behavior is also a sign a snake might not like to be co-habbed. Of course I separate that snake. I do think that the other approach to be able to have more snakes in the same space, a rack system, has its disadvantages too. Most rack people do not put anything more than a water bowl and if the snake gets lucky, a hide in its tub. I seriouisly think that the lack of stimualtion, causes less movement, less muscle mass and a less than optimal condition in the snake. Since I had a disease in my collection that caused most casualties in the rack I was using at the time (no co-habbing), I decided they were not the way to go for me, despite the U.S. community over here. Who knows if their immune system isn't optimal in a rack because of havign no stimulation, being on news paper (without a hide) withotu anything to pay attention to? Many of my snakes love to hang out at their viv window and watch the world outside. I hope to be able to convince some more U.S.A. people that their might be another way to keep corns than the U.S.A. way, especially the more extreme 'believers' :)
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I have both display vivs and racks, my corns in the display vivs don't act any different than the ones in the racks :(
(I'm not trying to start an argument with you if this comes off this way, this is my opinion)
I think that it is difficult for us as humans to see that the snakes really don't care if they are kept in a dark rack with a water bowl, or a decked out display viv. As people, we automatically decide that the display vivs must be the best choice, because that is what we like ourselves. I think that as long as the heat is correct, they really could care less. This being said, I think that they should get all the exercise they need during handling, so it doesn't matter if it is a rack or a viv. Snakes are flat brained animals, they don't need stimulation or things to pay attention to. They only have the part of the brain that allows for instincts, not higher thinking like mammals. I know how hard it is to see that a snake would do just as well, if not better, housed in a rack than a display viv. It doesn't matter at all with my corns, I'm pretty sure they'd be just as happy living in a cardboard box as they are in their natural vivs.. but with my ball python.. I had a GORGEOUS viv for him with all the husbandry conditions perfect for balls.. but he stopped eating (not a normal strike), never shed right, his scales were chipping and flaking, and over all was stressed out. So, against my wishes, I got him a rack, and now all his issues have disappeared (except for eating). It's still hard for me to understand how anything would do better in a dark box than in a natural viv. I will say that I have found no differences in my corns no matter where they are housed. I say, if people have the room to do so, they should keep their corns in big display vivs lol. But when people end up with many snakes, racks are the way to go. I actually prefer my rack now..
 
AliCat37 said:
I have both display vivs and racks, my corns in the display vivs don't act any different than the ones in the racks :(
(I'm not trying to start an argument with you if this comes off this way, this is my opinion)
I think that it is difficult for us as humans to see that the snakes really don't care if they are kept in a dark rack with a water bowl, or a decked out display viv. As people, we automatically decide that the display vivs must be the best choice, because that is what we like ourselves. I think that as long as the heat is correct, they really could care less. This being said, I think that they should get all the exercise they need during handling, so it doesn't matter if it is a rack or a viv. Snakes are flat brained animals, they don't need stimulation or things to pay attention to. They only have the part of the brain that allows for instincts, not higher thinking like mammals. I know how hard it is to see that a snake would do just as well, if not better, housed in a rack than a display viv. It doesn't matter at all with my corns, I'm pretty sure they'd be just as happy living in a cardboard box as they are in their natural vivs.. but with my ball python.. I had a GORGEOUS viv for him with all the husbandry conditions perfect for balls.. but he stopped eating (not a normal strike), never shed right, his scales were chipping and flaking, and over all was stressed out. So, against my wishes, I got him a rack, and now all his issues have disappeared (except for eating). It's still hard for me to understand how anything would do better in a dark box than in a natural viv. I will say that I have found no differences in my corns no matter where they are housed. I say, if people have the room to do so, they should keep their corns in big display vivs lol. But when people end up with many snakes, racks are the way to go. I actually prefer my rack now..
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I don't want to start an argument too, but discussing stuff is always interesting :) How do you know the ones in the racks act the same as the ones in the vivs? Do you see the ones in the racks all the time? I had a rack once, I only saw them on check ups and cleaning and stuff. No idea what they were doing in between, except when they would come to the front. The ones in your racks cannot climb, many of my corns do climb in their vivs with climbing stuff, didn't yours?

I do know about balls, they surely show that my little theory does at least not apply to all species :)

I know about the brains of reptiles. Yet many of my corns do hang out near their window to see what is going on. Probably because of their hunting instinct... at the other hand, they are out in the open which is not a good thing when waiting for prey... and they are in resting position, not at all ready to attack. So, some urge makes them want to hang out there and watch outside, it cannot be wrong to enable them to do it. Same goes for the climbing thing. In racks they cannot do that, though they might want to or maybe need it for their well being.
 
SnakeAround said:
I don't want to start an argument too, but discussing stuff is always interesting :) How do you know the ones in the racks act the same as the ones in the vivs? Do you see the ones in the racks all the time? I had a rack once, I only saw them on check ups and cleaning and stuff. No idea what they were doing in between, except when they would come to the front. The ones in your racks cannot climb, many of my corns do climb in their vivs with climbing stuff, didn't yours?

I do know about balls, they surely show that my little theory does at least not apply to all species :)

I know about the brains of reptiles. Yet many of my corns do hang out near their window to see what is going on. Probably because of their hunting instinct... at the other hand, they are out in the open which is not a good thing when waiting for prey... and they are in resting position, not at all ready to attack. So, some urge makes them want to hang out there and watch outside, it cannot be wrong to enable them to do it. Same goes for the climbing thing. In racks they cannot do that, though they might want to or maybe need it for their well being.
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The corns in my display vivs have things to climb and explore, but most of the time they sit under their hides or completely burrow down into the aspen. The ones that are in the rack do the same thing. Once in a while I will see them up at the front poking around, but every time I go to get them out, feed, clean, etc they seem to be in their hides. I have one snake that is in the display viv that will come to the glass when I or the cat walks by, but I think that she thinks she's getting food! If I open the door she won't hesitate to get my fingers haha. But I actually have yet to see the ones in the display vivs out and climbing around other than when I put them back after play time. I don't think mine are much of climbers! Sometimes my motley will go to the lip where the doors are and climb up and right back down, but I haven't seen the other do it. I find lots of tunnels in their aspen, so I know they are active. I'm not sure if they are climbing about when I am asleep.. it would be neat to set up a night vision camera to see what they are up to!

The one corn that is in the rack does have a natural rock hide in there, so even though he's not getting high up off the ground, he can "go up" if he chooses.. the milk snake is in the rack as well, but he doesn't move. At all.. it's a little strange.

But no! It certainly is not wrong to allow them to have the opportunity to climb and watch outside and such. It cannot hurt to allow them to opportunity to climb, but I don't think that it is needed for their well being, I know many people who keep their snakes in tubs with only paper on the bottom and a water dish and they live and breed just like any other snake. The guys in my racks get aspen bedding and at least two hides :) I just think that well decorated vivs are more beneficial for us than the snakes, but, at least in the case of corns, I think that large and well decorated cages can only benefit them as well. (Though keeping them in racks isn't disadvantageous to them either, if that makes sense?)
:)
 
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My vivs :) The ones without greens are boa vvis, they crush greens :p
 
Everybody jaw just drop!!! LOL

You got to give us the link to that site which make them!!
But putting them on wheels is a reall smart ideal too!!

Thanks for sharing.
 
Carinata said:
Before the people here tear you to bit, co-habbing is in general a bad idea. It doesn't allow you to monitor an animals poo/shed cycles, allows the possibility of spreading diseases like crypto and para. Virus easy, and the possibility of females being bred early is one of the greatest risks. I've never heard of male Cornsnakes fighting, but I won't get into that. I would suggest investing in a rack system. They are convienient, and very practical for someone with large numbers of reptiles. I keep everything in either racks or front opening displays. This allows you to manage each individual animal and allows them to feel much more secure than they would in a glass tank. I hope this helps you!
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May I ask what is a rack system? can you get one for 3 snakes or is it for more than that? where do you get them?
 
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