Strawberry, Hypo/Strawberry?

[kse04]

Ok, so I apologize ahead of time, I'm sure this topic has been talked about alot, and I actually did spend quite a bit of time looking for a thread. But anyways, I have been trying to figure out what exactly a "Salmon" Snow is, and what a "Coral Ghost" would be. First with the Salmon. In the corn calc, if you breed a Coral Snow (Amel, Anery , Hypo) x Salmon (Amel, Anery, Strawberry) the results are Hypo/Strawberry Snows . Is a Hypo/Strawberry Snow considered a "Salmon" since it contains the Strawberry gene? And since the Hypo gene and the Strawberry gene are the same gene. And with the Coral Ghost, if Hypo and Strawberry are the same gene, would a Coral Ghost be considered the same as Strawberry Anery? Again, I apologize if this has been brought up before.

 

[Pasodama]

Strawberry and Hypo are not the same genes. They are two separate genes that happen to share the same locus.

 

[Pasodama]

As far as Coral goes, Coral has been used (and still is) for various different Snows that showed pink coloration. Anywhere from non-hypo (but pink), to Hypo, to those that carry the Strawberry gene.
It is a pain that a same name is used for different genetics/phenotypes (not just with Snows).

 

[Pasodama]

Here is a thread that may (or may not ) be helpful:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114934&highlight=strawberry

 

[kse04]

Ahhhhh!!! There's the thread I was looking for. Thank you,clears quite a bit up. There saying strawberry might be dominant, I.e. showing red with strawberry as a het. If that's the case then breeding a proven hypo coral snow to proven strawberry gene salmon snow would produce a " hypo/strawberry" , and since 100% has the strawberry gene (but also hypo gene) can be labeled as a " salmon snow" ?

 

[chris68]

Hypo X Strawberry should (in theory) clutch out hypo's, strawberries and the intermediately colored hypo/strawberries...

There are no set rules on what exactly "is" a salmon or a coral for the simple reason not all the lines have been definitively proven out. Some of the nicest examples of salmons you'll find are from http://jmgreptile.com/snakes.html and to my knowledge their salmons and corals are linebred, and Jeff and his father either aren't sure of the genetics, or aren't saying. Almost all the lines are being "picked apart" to decipher the genetics behind them, and it is looking like it will be a long and frustrating process

quick edit: Jeff Galewood of jmgreptiles.com, Marcia of poppycorns.com, Don Soderberg, John Finsterwald, Kevin Saunders, myself, others whom I'm forgetting are all working with various "pink" lines of corn snakes...

 

[Kevin S.]

There saying strawberry might be dominant, I.e. showing red with strawberry as a het.

I have a female anery with an unusual pink wash to her background coloration and I suspect she's a visual het for strawberry. She was produced by two anery parents that showed a pink/red wash as well, and each of them came from a Don Soderburg coral snow x anery. I'd have to dig through my emails to get the exact wording, but somewhere over the last few months Don told me his coral and salmon snows seem to be the same genotypically. The salmons are supposed to be homozygous for strawberry, so I guess that means Don's line of coral snows should be as well. I'll be breeding my "visual het" from his coral lines to a salmon snow, so hopefully that will help clear things up a little.

 

[kse04]

Ya, my Salmon male is from Don at SMR, but just planned on breeding with my Coral this season, and I guess we'll see what kind of genectics she has behind her. It sounds like now people just use the "Coral" name to describe a pinkish tone, like on a Coral Snow, even if the pinkish tone does not come from a Strawberry or Hypo gene.

From what I was reading on the forums, JMG's Coral Ghost actually does not have the Strawberry gene, its just a selectivly bred line, although I can not confirm that for sure. If thats the case, breeding my Ghost x Salmon Snow would give me (according to corncalc) only "Coral Ghost". Would these be called "Salmon Ghosts", or be considered
Strawberry Anerys or Coral Ghosts? Just kind of sounds like Coral is being used to describe a slight pinkish tones to snakes, regardless of a Hypo or Strawberry gene being used. Just want to make sure I am selling / promoting these as the right morph, since they will 100% have the Strawberry gene.

 

[kse04]

And forgot to add, is that what makes a "Coral" Ghost , the Hypo / Strawberry gene. So, a Anery / Hypo = Ghost , Anery / Strawberry = Strawberry Anery , Anery / Hypo / Strawberry = Coral Ghost ? So, an Anery must be homo for Hypo AND strawberry to be considered a Coral Ghost?

 

[Mitchell Mulks]

This is a great topic to discuss. I think what we can really take from this is the problem with using "morph" labels, as opposed to using genetic names. For me, all of my pink snakes are strawberry anerys. I've chosen to make sure that my pink anerys are pink because of the strawberry gene, and not a mix at the hypo/strawberry locus. I think it's pretty well understood that the strawberry gene makes for the most pink or red anery snakes (or the most classic "coral" ghosts), so therefore I simply advertise my snakes as strawberry anerys, as opposed to using the coral ghost label. For most corn enthusiasts who know how the genetics work, not using a label such as "coral ghost", but instead the genetic assemblage of the snake, shouldn't hamper your sales, and should only strengthen your credibility as a seller because you'd be disclosing the true genetics of your snakes for sale.

Mitch

 

[Susan]

I agree that labeling coral snows/salmon snows/coral ghosts/ etc is confusing and I also often prefer to use the genetic makeup instead. Unfortunately, since my coral ghost is a JMG coral ghost, I really don't know the genetics for sure and will just have to see what hatches out in breeding trials before I can get an answer.

 

[kse04]

Perfect! Thanks alot for your post Mitch, that answers some questions. My mind thought was to, as you said, sell the appropriate corns as Salmon Snows and either Salmon Ghosts or Strawberry Anerys. I feel like I have a very good handle on the genectics and whatnot for corns, but from looking at Corncalc it almost seemed like producing a Strawberry Anery, is a completely different breed then a Coral Ghost because of the fact that you need a "Hypo / Strawberry" mixture to create a Coral Ghost and w/o Hypo it would be an "Anery / Strawberry" . But thanks alot Mitch, that actually answered quite a few questions.

This is a great topic to discuss. I think what we can really take from this is the problem with using "morph" labels, as opposed to using genetic names. For me, all of my pink snakes are strawberry anerys. I've chosen to make sure that my pink anerys are pink because of the strawberry gene, and not a mix at the hypo/strawberry locus. I think it's pretty well understood that the strawberry gene makes for the most pink or red anery snakes (or the most classic "coral" ghosts), so therefore I simply advertise my snakes as strawberry anerys, as opposed to using the coral ghost label. For most corn enthusiasts who know how the genetics work, not using a label such as "coral ghost", but instead the genetic assemblage of the snake, shouldn't hamper your sales, and should only strengthen your credibility as a seller because you'd be disclosing the true genetics of your snakes for sale.

Mitch

 

[kse04]

And Susan, Im sure you won't remember since it is a ways still from breeding time, but definitly let me know how your project goes. All this has me very interested, and quite honestly wondering how many plain snows I'm gonna get from my Salmon x Coral project since there is probably a damn good chance that she doesn't even have Hypo in her genes.

I agree that labeling coral snows/salmon snows/coral ghosts/ etc is confusing and I also often prefer to use the genetic makeup instead. Unfortunately, since my coral ghost is a JMG coral ghost, I really don't know the genetics for sure and will just have to see what hatches out in breeding trials before I can get an answer.

 

[Pasodama]

so therefore I simply advertise my snakes as strawberry anerys, as opposed to using the coral ghost label.

This (genetic labeling) is what I plan on doing with my Strawberry morphs.
There is just too much confusion, especially with people using same names for different genetics, to use Coral, Salmon, etc.

 

[kse04]

I definitely agree and I plan on doing the same. I think Mitch has the right idea. It's just getting so dang confusing, ESP when trying to put together breeding projects.

This (genetic labeling) is what I plan on doing with my Strawberry morphs.
There is just too much confusion, especially with people using same names for different genetics, to use Coral, Salmon, etc.

 

[beautifullywild77]

Piglet is a pink snow, I dont know his background so for all intent and purposes we call him a pink snow but someone on the thread below posted this

"'Course, I suppose you could also call him a Coral Snow (Paradox Coral Snow) if you wish to use the original meaning of "Coral Snow"

Piglet does have a paradox mark.
Here is the thread talking about pink snakes
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119083&highlight=pink

 

[kse04]

Ohhh, I actually read your thread and wanted to talk to you. I actually bought a snow from a local pet store and it was all white, no color, looked like a snow. About 4 months in she started getting bright yellow under her chin, and about a month later she shed and I noticed some faint salmon in her head and a few inches down her body. Its getting a bit more brighter but thatll come with age. Is that pretty similiar to what youv experienced?

Well, as it seems the term "Coral" is being used for pinkish tone and pinkish looks to the snakes, instead of the genectics. So, I guess for now I will be using genetic termonology, as Mitch mentioned. And hoping I dont get all norm snows with my Coral x Salmon project.

Piglet is a pink snow, I dont know his background so for all intent and purposes we call him a pink snow but someone on the thread below posted this

"'Course, I suppose you could also call him a Coral Snow (Paradox Coral Snow) if you wish to use the original meaning of "Coral Snow"

Piglet does have a paradox mark.
Here is the thread talking about pink snakes
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119083&highlight=pink

 

[beautifullywild77]

Piglet was never white like "regular" snows. He always had a pink tint to his coloring. The older he got the brighter he became. Of course I was a novice and figured all snows were pink. Now he is completely pink but the color is darker towards his head and neck and his yellow is just now starting to show through the pink along his neck. I will try to get more recent pictures. The outline of his saddles have a greenish tint to them as well.

Here is the color he was when we got him.

Here are some about 4 months

Here are some about 7 months

Here he is today... crappy pictures I just snapped real fast

 

[beautifullywild77]

Oops hit enter
Here he is tonight

He pooped and made a mess so he had to have a bath

 

[kse04]

Haha love the sink pic. He's really pretty, be interesting to see what he tests out as.