Taken a turn for the worst. I need help/advice..

[Pruddock]

I promise this comment means no disrespect and is supposed to be funny but...

Did anybody else just read Susan's post and get the image of a mother holding the arms of her two sons splitting them up from fighting in the grocery store or something like that lol. I don't know why...just reminded me of my mom kickin my lil bro and I in the tousch for fighting instead of being patient lol. Well said Susan!

 

[klootie]

thank-you susan for bringing this back to what REALLY matters.. sorry for defending my position...

My posts will now be kept factual and informative, I appologise for becoming heated and realise it is now paramount it is dealt with wisely .

 

[diamondlil]

There has already been one warning issued about the inflammatory posts in this thread and I'm issuing another just for the posts I've read since the previous warning! As I have not read the previous infractions yet, I'm not issuing any suspensions at this time, but any further outbursts like the ones I HAVE read will result in immediate suspension!

I don't care about the "hows" and the "whys" and if ANYONE is to blame! Snakes are ill and at least one is dead. The possibility of a contagious incurable and fatal illness being the cause was the reason I suggested this thread be stickied. It is definitely something that snake owners should at least be made aware of, whether there is a potential outbreak now or not. The UK has a history of being able to fully deal with real or imagined outbreaks of nasty diseases. All I need to do is mention anthrax and mad cow disease to get my point across. Now everybody will just have to have the patience to wait for the lab results. I know it's difficult, but I'm sure you can all handle it in a civil manner from now on.

Sadly Susan, it seems that a civil manner is alien to that forum.

 

[brittone05]

Sorry Lil (and please understand I am not being nasty by this )

"That" forum is 99% of the time civil. People fall out as they do anywhere at any givent ime but things are generally good. Lots of people receive lots of good advice, right now lots of people are learning about the new legislation in the UK, newcomers arrive every day.

Just because you have a few bad apples, you don't write off the tree ya know

I know how heart wrenching this is for Lynn - she is having to see her daughter totally devastated that her little snake is sick. As a mum, I really feel for her having to hold up the strain if all this wile all she wants to do is comfort her child who is upset.

I genuinely feel that no more cna be done until the results form PM's come in - facts will come from that instead of speculation. Lynn has ha the bottle to hold up her hands and sy she made a mistake - she is human and that is a perfectly normal thing. I thikn she has a lot of guts to have taken the grief she has so far in and she knows (I hope) that I have my fingers and toes crossd for a good outcome

 

[holly tayls]

Just a quick question. I ahve 2 corns, females from the same breeder and of the same basic age. When I feed I have a separate tupperware container for each and they are labled. I Pull out my mice, thaw them in my thawing cup and place them in the cups Then I put the girls into their feeding cupes and they go at it. I never re-use refused food (although I only had some with our second who refused to eat more than one at a time until recently - shes now as big a pig as the other)
From what Im reading here snakes were fed in the same containers and fed the same mouse that was refused by another?
Just want clarification.

 

[diamondlil]

I'm sure Elle and Klootie(?) are suffering on so many levels right now. If they have made mistakes and admitted them, at least they have made those admissions, instead of just walking away from the vitriol. The repeated attacks on them do not paint a pretty picture of the hobby in this country at all.
At the end of the day they both have snakes that are dead or ill from as yet unidentified disease. Maybe because I'm a keeper rather than a business, the thought of someone losing a snake upsets me more than any claimed damage to sales (although I'm fully aware if my livelihood was affected I might feel differently)
If the worst-case scenario is borne out and other collections are affected, wouldn't keeping quiet have been worse than raising the alarm?

 

[snake5007]

To tell you the truth, it's a "he said, she said" situation. The main thing people want now is the test result. It's difficult to tell truth from lie in this case and, TBH, i for one decided to concentrate on keeping an eye out for the results rather than question Elle after she posted her answer. At the end of the day, it was a mistake. Everyone makes 'em.

 

[snake5007]

You type too fast Janine!

 

[Tula_Montage]

No results from Windsors autopsy are back yet. Please direct all questions regarding Windsor to ME and not Lynn as it's my snake. I cannot answer any questions about Shug or Elysium (lyns sick pythons) However I am at Lynns now and can say that neither snake is worse, but neither is getting better.

I took two snakes into the vet today. One was Riviere my anery stripe who is perfectly fine thank god. However Noir, my black milk is a wee bit mucasy. The vet is was nothing to worry about by I asked for a 2 week course of baytril anyways. He is now in strict quarantine.

I also had a fecal sample done on him (just to rule out parasites etc) as he was not too pleased at the vet poking around him - aren't milks pleasantly reliable in situations like that LOL

He also took a swab from Noir at my request to be sent for tests. The one thing he did say was that they probably would not be able to identify the bacteria in any of the other snakes on baytril as it could have killed off the bacteria. Therefore if Noir is infected its quite good (I know that sounds terrible) but they can perhaps find out what the bacteria is on a snake that had not been treated yet.

We do not know when Windsors autopsy results will be back, or when Lynns bacteria culture and lung wash results will be back.

 

[Jrgh17]

As a complete outsider looking in, I've been observing:

First of all, people have been ALL OVER the board on how they feel about this. Feelings range from "this is a complete overreaction" to "how could you have let this come to be?!"

If someone told me that their quarantine and sanitation procedures were perfect 100% of the time... well, personally, I wouldn't believe them. I have two "clusters" of snake areas at my place, and both have bottles of hand sanitizer. Does that mean I sanitize every time I move from one snake to another? I try to. In all honesty though, I'm sure I've forgotten. And I'm sure that everyone here has made the same mistake at one point or another. I also know that I may have gone to a petstore, checked out someone else's snake, or whatever, then made a mental note to wash my hands... and forgot.

I'm human.

By some accounts, the reptile trade in the UK is going you-know-where very fast. Whether this is true or not is irrelevant at this point. Elle may have sold an infected snake (without knowing - even before Windsor showed any signs), the buyer may not have quarantined, and sold another snake. Point is, if this IS something that will be a problem, trying to track it and then point fingers is a completely useless waste of time. The only thing that can be done now is to wait. And while waiting, the best thing for EVERYONE to do is to look at their own procedures and methods for hygiene. Ask yourself: Am I washing my hands all the time? Am I quarantining? Could any of my hygiene practices be better than they are? Protecting your collection and your stock should be high on priorities... so why not spend time doing that instead of pointing fingers and arguing about how it should've been done?

 

[snake5007]

I hope you don't have to wait too long for the results Elle. I salute you and Lynn for being honest in the face of a seriously high amount of pressure. I certainly wouldn't think twice about buying from you.

 

[Tula_Montage]

As a complete outsider looking in, I've been observing:

First of all, people have been ALL OVER the board on how they feel about this. Feelings range from "this is a complete overreaction" to "how could you have let this come to be?!"

If someone told me that their quarantine and sanitation procedures were perfect 100% of the time... well, personally, I wouldn't believe them. I have two "clusters" of snake areas at my place, and both have bottles of hand sanitizer. Does that mean I sanitize every time I move from one snake to another? I try to. In all honesty though, I'm sure I've forgotten. And I'm sure that everyone here has made the same mistake at one point or another. I also know that I may have gone to a petstore, checked out someone else's snake, or whatever, then made a mental note to wash my hands... and forgot.

I'm human.

By some accounts, the reptile trade in the UK is going you-know-where very fast. Whether this is true or not is irrelevant at this point. Elle may have sold an infected snake (without knowing - even before Windsor showed any signs), the buyer may not have quarantined, and sold another snake. Point is, if this IS something that will be a problem, trying to track it and then point fingers is a completely useless waste of time. The only thing that can be done now is to wait. And while waiting, the best thing for EVERYONE to do is to look at their own procedures and methods for hygiene. Ask yourself: Am I washing my hands all the time? Am I quarantining? Could any of my hygiene practices be better than they are? Protecting your collection and your stock should be high on priorities... so why not spend time doing that instead of pointing fingers and arguing about how it should've been done?

Bravo!

What I have realised is just how disposable pet snakes are! And it actually sickens me to think I have been buying and selling snakes on without a second thought. For one, this whole incident has deffinatley taught me to appreciate what I have. I have never been so distraught about losing an animal before. Perhaps because I gave him so much TLC. Perhaps because I was SOOOO SURE he was going to be ok.

If nothing else comes of this fiasco, I think people have seen just how easy it is to spread bacteria from one snake to another. And just how important hygiene and quarantine procedures are. Never again will I trust any source I buy from... any new snake that comes near my house will be under strict quarantine for 3 - 6 months. Theres no such thing as a 100% safe source IMO as theres so many nasties out there harbouring that never show signs.

Thank goodness all my other boids and weirdo snakes are at my partners house(hes stole them and won't let me take some home LOL). I have been extremely fortunate this time in regard to how many of my snakes it passed to. I know I have made so many mistakes, I have infected my friends snakes!! :angry01: You live and learn, and no matter what happpens me and Lynn will be there for each other irrespective of the snakes.

Lets just say I have developed hygiene OCD throught this whole ordeal...

 

[Tula_Montage]

I hope you don't have to wait too long for the results Elle. I salute you and Lynn for being honest in the face of a seriously high amount of pressure. I certainly wouldn't think twice about buying from you.

Thank you, that means a lot considering you jumped on the band waggon a few posts back

I do not blame anyone for being angry at myself on Lynn, we fully understand. But the harrassment and bullying was 100% unnecessary. I guess cabin fever really has set in.

 

[snake5007]

Hey, i wasn't on any bandwagon. I asked questions and made a statement about how the situation *might* affect your reputation. When i made the reputation statement, i was looking at it from a different perspective, not my own. I've always known that you're as honest as they come. In fact, you've gotten into trouble a few times for being TOO honest.

 

[mele2511]

Tula, because of my rescue BP's i might have a spare to replace yours. Not sure yet but if you are interested gimmi a hoot.

 

[Tula_Montage]

Tula, because of my rescue BP's i might have a spare to replace yours. Not sure yet but if you are interested gimmi a hoot.

Thank you so much. I have been offered 3 royals now as a replacement for Windsor. But it's simply too heartbreaking to consider another royal at the moment. And with no results back I cannot risk bringing anything else into my collection.

You could offer me an albino pastel pied for £5 and would I would HAVE to say no

 

[tanya uk]

the problem is, how it has been handled..

like it or not, this is having a HUGE knock on effect in england

N

damn!! typed a reply to tanya, lost it all

*sigh*

tanya - you are talking out of your behind..

please forgive me for disagreeing with you yet again

i do not stand to loose money from this, as i do not make money from reptiles in the first place... lol, i wish i did! Gremlins operates sundays only right now, and is more mammal based.. ditta and reptile taxi are not competition no, we cover different areas at the moment lol.. nice try tho..

i will let others be the judge on that.

Lyn and elle were the ones that mentioned RT by name in the UK thread, which you seem to have not fully read!!!!

2 wrongs make for a right then in your book nerys. it was not mentioned here though until you said it. i wonder why.

me? lapse? watch it sweetheart.. i'll have you for character deformation if you are not blooming careful..

before threatening me better read back through your own posts which by your own word admit you are lapse so r u saying you lie as well as broadcast private messages slagging off people from third hand people instead of making sure of facts first with a 1 to 1 with the person concerned. glad your not my friend as you lie and spout confidences all over the net as well as hounding to the death people that r already down. think id rather be dead than be your sweetheart.

what i meant was ALL couriers are going to have to be careful that we do not allow animals to be held with a third party like lyn who "kept them in her bedroom" if we do, maybe we need a get disclaimers signed.. who knows. not sure what that has to do with you, unless you have a vested interest in one of them maybe?

pays 2 say what you mean if you dont wish people to get you wrong.

other virus's.. what about them? any decent keeper would know about them to begin with.. i am not the one creating a mass panic by saying i have got one!! my animals dying.. yeah sure the odd non feeding hatchling pops its clogs, but i've not had any RI's this year no.. have you? i loose more rats and mice tbh, but thats deliberatly done!

u may not b the 1 saying anything nerys but u admit u know about the viruses but yet you also admit to taking chances. does not sound good. i would not trust u will my animals. i have not had any animal ri's either. i did not wish 2 hear about your killing sprees with your rodents either ta so no need to brag or do you feel big for saying it.

tbh tanya, you make me chuckle.. you so clearly have an agenda its not true...

talking of agendas. whats yours. with working 75 hours per week, and so many different animals to see to and fighting for the hobby and a partner to look after, its amazing that you can be a mod in so many places and post so very much. why have you made this sad situation your affair. why r u leading the witch hunt. it smells fishy to me.

have you spoken to the RCVS and DEFRA about all this? no have you hell.. have we? yes, of course..

my my. now your speading the word that i have not not been in touch with RCVS and DEFRA. from that without even knowing me, can any of us further believe what u r spouting over the internet

we speak from fact, not from speculative fiction.

REALLY. now that is taking the pee.read above


Elle and Lyn have done more damage to the UK reptile trade on a political basis than they will ever realise by posting in such an emoitve and inaccurate mannor.. regardless of what they were trying to do, they should have thought a little more about how they did it.

look to yourself there 2 because you have 2 with your sily chanting about RSPCA and Animal Aid having a field day with it all etc, you have drawn even more attention to something that might not have been noticed if u had not stressed just how much they would love this info, so u have made sure that any of their members reading it will now take hold of the info because u have told them how important it is to their cause. well done nerys. u do their job for them. they will luv u. blame is at your door therefore and not elle's.


and yes, of course i feel sorry for them losing pets, but i'm sorry, it happens.. you need to deal with it calmly and without resorting to mass media alerts before you know what is going on.

please dont go there as your hounding of elle and her friend disprove what you r saying and it comes over as a pee take instead.

i am quite happy to be in my shoes right now, and blooming glad i am not in theirs.

u get high from kicking people whist they r down then nerys. things turn round given time nerys so lets hope u will remain happy and that fate does not change things.
Nerys

I don't think i will bother again, but i am thinking of u elle and your friend and the snakes. i hope the others all make it. u did what u thought was right and in this life there are always people who will disagree but to be honest it makes me sick that the uk breeders are only bothered about their blasted income. it makes u wonder if u can trust them now. thats no doubt why they are only contacting u in private. they dont have the guts to come out in the open. they get nerys to do it for them, which makes one wonder why again. vested interest perhaps, but there again maybe not, as nerys does not do reptile business does she. anyone know if nerys is at the show today trying to sell her hobby snakes.

tanya.

ps nerys following the links u have provided can i rightly assume that your partner is a business trading in all exotics then, and do you not then associate and assist him thus your concern for the trade? his pocket, yours whatever.

 

[klootie]

You know what nerys.. I didnt think anyone was being more of a drama poster than me at the moment regarding this situation.. ( and at least I had an emotional reason when I posted the way i did on the UK thread...)

But you beat me hands down every time...


your innacuracy regarding facts... your political mumblings and general hysterical attutude has given even me a run for my money.. and i at least admit when i am wrong...

I thought I was the only one who had posted in a very panicked and worried manner thus not conveying factual and simple information..

But you take the absolute biscuit...

YOU WIN

 

[klootie]

I don't think i will bother again, but i am thinking of u elle and your friend and the snakes. i hope the others all make it. u did what u thought was right and in this life there are always people who will disagree but to be honest it makes me sick that the uk breeders are only bothered about their blasted income. it makes u wonder if u can trust them now. thats no doubt why they are only contacting u in private. they dont have the guts to come out in the open. they get nerys to do it for them, which makes one wonder why again. vested interest perhaps, but there again maybe not, as nerys does not do reptile business does she. anyone know if nerys is at the show today trying to sell her hobby snakes.

tanya.

ps nerys following the links u have provided can i rightly assume that your partner is a business trading in all exotics then, and do you not then associate and assist him thus your concern for the trade? his pocket, yours whatever.

tanya.. i do not think it is difficult for the majority ( including other Uk breeders etc that have contacted me about this) to see what nerys is doing..


I posted during a trauma in an emotional state..

I have since appologised...

Whereas the style of posting that Nerys and some others made.. which was agreed to be bullying by the Uk moderators and the thread was closed... is FAR FAR more damaging to her political crusade ...

if you wish to get the reptile community on your side... then perhaps it is best not to be so horrifically nasty to new keepers ( and yes i am new.. only months regarding snakes) whereas with lizards i have more experience but still not much..

I have tried my best in a difficult situation to both admit my mistakes regarding husbandry and also regading emotive posting...

its sad others simply cannot do the same

 

[klootie]

Just to reiterate for the above post,,,

it was directed at nerys and not tanya.. in no way has tanya been bullying or nasty at any stage of this...

But yes I have been contacted from breeders over the UK saying I did the right thing...

so why are they not worried about their losses or business...

Nerys it may do you good if you want to be seen as a level headed fair political campaigner not to be so blatantly over emotive and reactionary when you post.

I do not need anyone to see me or know me as anything but what i am..

an animal lover that got it wrong....