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The religion thread of misery and changing no minds

wade said:
Danny,
I come from a very religious family and I am not. I know where you are coming from on that score. How would you like some food for thought? My parents are in their 80’s. Their health is failing and I would imagine they will die sometime in the not too distant future. My parents know that I don’t believe in the same things they do. But how much of a sacrifice is it to spend a few hours in church with your mother if it gives her comfort and makes her happy. I don’t mean every week, but every once in a while isn’t asking much.
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I can sort of see that side but it will inevitably cause an argument, as they try to not just convert me but say terrible things will happen to me if I dont believe what they do and I become beligerant. I have a difficult time being fake, if I don't like someone they know it I can't bite my tongue if i see bs.

A few years back I was in a barfight, I got stabbed 5 times , hitting my liver, pancreas, severing my common bile duct and nicked a major artery. I was literally on my deathbed (mom had the priest give my last rights for some reason) it was touch and go with all the blood I lost. I was in icu for a few weeks but even when I got to a step down unit I was so hevily medicated I slept most of the time and every time I woke there was a stranger sitting next to me, it turns out my cousin mentioned it at her church (born again) and they took it upon themselves to sit with me and as soom as I awoke every time IMMEDIATLY tell my I owe jesus, i need to turn my life over to him because he saved me. I was confused because I thought the surgon, surgical team, an exploratory laperotamy and several more surgeries did it. I was so angry I told the hospital they were harassing me and made a short list of who i wanted to see. After relentless calls from my cousin I told her if they left me alone for a few weeks till I got out I promised I would go to her church one time.

I managed to dodge the church thing but agreed to go to a party at her house and meet some of her church friends. Upon arriving they immediatly wanted to convert me, saying repeat after me bla bla bla I give my life to christ. It turned bad because when you ask for proof or anything at all that would substantiate their claims they get defensive and ignorant. I explained that I dont go around trying to make everyone think like me, why cant ya just live and let live. It has been almost 8 years since and I saw my cousin once, instead of small talk she handed me a religous pamplet and asked my to go to church, I handed it back and shook my head in disgust.
 
Wow, Danny. There is a lot to be said about approach and delivery, hunh?
I wonder what the average level of education was at the "party" you went to. Or even, on average, the mean number of books read by the party attendees.

Karl Marx said "Religion is the opiate of the masses". (In german, of course.) Actually paraphrasing from an older quote by the Marquis de Sade.
 
Eric you are absolutly right about the approach. If someone said " I found something that has enriched my life, made me a better person and I would like you to check it out" I would be very respectfull and depending on the situation even go just out of respect. When I give my answer of "I have gone to church, I have read the bible and I just don't believe it is a life I want to lead but i am glad it has helped you so much" The nicities usually stop there. I try to change the subject but I get dragged into a long discussion that ends up being uncomfortable for me and the other person.

I will admit that I live a pretty unusual lifestyle. I train in muay thai where fights are decided by how much damage you inflict on your opponent, its very common to pee blood for a few days after a fight , I street race my cars, stunt ride motorcycles, I party and drink to excess more than most guys my age, I am notoriously promiscious and when I need to relax and unwind I curl up on the couch with a 10' reticulated python and watch a ball game.
I think this is what draws people to try and "save" me by telling me I have to be more like them and live the way they do.
 
I saw that clip not long ago and bookmarked it- its great, but yes religion is the one thing that has been used to strip human rights away for centuries. As a matter of fact if one people did not take offense to a group or groups of other people religion may have never existed. From its traceable start it was used to judge, conform, and manipulate the acts of man. Before civil law religion guided and gave substance to judicial decisions based on what was deemed right and wrong in gods eyes aka the eyes of whoever was ruler at the time. Some of the most horrific travesties commited against society have been in the name of god ie. wars, take overs of land, cruelty against women, murder, rape, an incest just to name a few.

Even today our laws though supposidly made with separation of church and state in mind are really just springboards for the religious beliefs of those that stand behind them and inact them. Examples- no abortions its killing one of gods creations, no gay marriage its not what god intended, and so on. I don't believe in "god". I believe I am a spiritual person, I believe the ten commandments have a valuable place in society....or at least 8 of them,lol. However, I rarely come across deeply religious people who are not narrow minded, judgemental, or pompus. Believing in god or not does not make you a better person, more intelligent, or of more value.

I have always wondered with all the religions out there it seems a lot of people are going to hell since they all individually think they are right and superior- if there was a god how could (s)he be this intolerent and cruel? I believe heaven and hell are nothing more than metaphors for our lives here and now and not actual places we go to, but these are my opinions. I haven't died yet so what do I know? I just hate that all the people who "know" there is a god can't admit all they really know is how they feel:)
 
danielle said:
yes religion is the one thing that has been used to strip human rights away for centuries. As a matter of fact if one people did not take offense to a group or groups of other people religion may have never existed. From its traceable start it was used to judge, conform, and manipulate the acts of man. Before civil law religion guided and gave substance to judicial decisions based on what was deemed right and wrong in gods eyes aka the eyes of whoever was ruler at the time. Some of the most horrific travesties commited against society have been in the name of god ie. wars, take overs of land, cruelty against women, murder, rape, an incest just to name a few.

Even today our laws though supposidly made with separation of church and state in mind are really just springboards for the religious beliefs of those that stand behind them and inact them. Examples- no abortions its killing one of gods creations, no gay marriage its not what god intended, and so on. I don't believe in "god". I believe I am a spiritual person, I believe the ten commandments have a valuable place in society....or at least 8 of them,lol. However, I rarely come across deeply religious people who are not narrow minded, judgemental, or pompus. Believing in god or not does not make you a better person, more intelligent, or of more value.

I have always wondered with all the religions out there it seems a lot of people are going to hell since they all individually think they are right and superior- if there was a god how could (s)he be this intolerent and cruel? I believe heaven and hell are nothing more than metaphors for our lives here and now and not actual places we go to, but these are my opinions. I haven't died yet so what do I know? I just hate that all the people who "know" there is a god can't admit all they really know is how they feel:)
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I 2nd that!!

Having ben raised as a Christian I feel I have more question than answers.



Url, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RV46fsmx6E
 
My parents tried to force me into Catholicism as a child. I never 'got' the whole guilt thing...and when I discovered the pagan religions by accident at around...age nine or so, I felt immediately at home.

What is it with religious family members not being able to leave well enough alone? My mom's brother used to be the worst about trying to convert those around him, and I avoided him for years. Now he has mellowed dramatically and we get along great, and it seems other family members have taken up the duty of harassing people.

My grandma used to be the person I could go to with anything. She was the only person I had told for years that I never intend to have children (This is a REALLY BIG DEAL to a lot of people for some reason, the state of my uterus has caused many arguments with my mother) and she was the person I went to when I accidentally got pregnant. I was always safe with her. Until I got engaged.

Suddenly, EVERY TIME I SAW HER, she was ALL OVER ME trying to get me to carry her bible down the aisle, wear her cross during the ceremony, etc. When I gently told her "But Grandma, I'm still pagan", she said "No you're not. I know you think you are, but you're not." That hurt, and after that I excluded her from all of the wedding planning. It sucked, I had wanted her to be a major part of the plans, but I was not going to listen to that.

I don't understand why some folks who follow organized religions can't leave others alone. I've never seen a pagan on a street corner thumping a book of shadows, and I don't think I ever will.
 
It’s Sunday morning in Utah. I am sitting here in my underwear, drinking my last cup of coffee, having a cigarette. All of these activities are mortal sins in Utah. Ooooops.

I have been reading about sexual fidelity, gender preference, religion and politics this morning. More to the point, I have been reading the opinions of several people from around the world, all on a cornsnake site. I agree with some, not others. Many have made me reexamine what I believe or at least to think about it.

I would like to take this opportunity to say that I am impressed with the range of opinions and beliefs expressed. I am impressed the intelligence of some of you, very much. And I am grateful for CS.com.

Thanks
 
Organized religion is the most frightening thing on the planet. Truly.
They interpert a book of mostly well-meaning fairy tails however they wish to create an environment that gives them the most power.

Religion should be a personal one on one experience. If you are christian for example...note that in the Jesus stories, he went out alone into the desert to pray. He did not go into a giant multi-million dollar arena or marble and gold covered building with 500 other people and repeat himself over and over. He prayed alone. quietly. To his god of choice.

I think that any deity would appreciate someone who could think for themselves and make the good choices in life...not nitpick over how you eat your pig meat or who you choose to marry.

I am a non-practicing pagan. I believe that no book or ritual written by man (or woman) can possibly be accurate. That no one can know what the Goddess wants. One should just live their life by the golden rule and trudge through the best you can. It is not our place to know. It is definatly NOT our place to tell everyone else How to worship propery.

I personally don't think any deity cares what you call him or her...only that you are the best person you can be.
And on that note.... here is a funny.
WjMLtz3Sbej9r76t5bZnixEIo1_500.jpg
 
I'm doing the same thing, Wade! Except I'm not in Utah. It's one O'clock now, so I can buy beer, grill meat and watch football. You can't buy alcohol on Sunday here until church lets out, no joke.
 
wade said:
Utah
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If you're in Utah, I can guess which religion you speak of. I hung with them a while, but then walked away from them, a few years back.

Politics. Religion. Sexual mores. There's a LOT of peer pressure in all of those subjects. People will spend time and money to persuade you to think the way they do.
I think for the important stuff in life, one has to make up one's own mind. I think for the sake of peace and sanity, at least for me, I can go along with the crowd for unimportant stuff, like fashion rules, and that sort of thing. But really meaningful choices require thought and choice, one's own choice.

I think Shakespeare said it best:

"This above all, to thine own self be true."
 
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