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The US flag is offensive ...

He should be able to protest, but there's other ways he could do it. He could appeal the decision, for one.
In my opinion, he was only doing it for the publicity. As the saying goes, there's no such thing as bad publicity.
 
RobbiesCornField said:
He should be able to protest, but there's other ways he could do it. He could appeal the decision, for one.
In my opinion, he was only doing it for the publicity. As the saying goes, there's no such thing as bad publicity.
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Agree!. Clearly he's barking up the wrong tree, and there's no reason to do this to your neighbors or your own town. He could just appeal, like you said, and take action from there. Still, the police were stupid to take it down by force, and now they'll become the antagonists and could very well get sued, too. Like the old saying goes; "Two wrongs don't make a right". Maybe he should have checked state laws before he decided to invest so much into an Italian restaurant. Just my opinion!.
 
My problem is that flying a flag upside down is a signal for "DISTRESS" as in, "I need help immediately". While I do understand his "distress" at not receiving his restaurant's liquor license, it isn't they type of "distress" that requires an immediate response. I agree with the people in the article that think he should have found a different way to deal with the issue.

The police had every right to take it down as its display wasn't appropriate signal for "distress". If I'm in danger and the only way I can signal my "distress" is to place a flag upside down, I don't want the police delaying because they don't know if I'm in immediate "distress" or not.
 
The_Thunderer said:
My problem is that flying a flag upside down is a signal for "DISTRESS" as in, "I need help immediately". While I do understand his "distress" at not receiving his restaurant's liquor license, it isn't they type of "distress" that requires an immediate response. I agree with the people in the article that think he should have found a different way to deal with the issue.

The police had every right to take it down as its display wasn't appropriate signal for "distress". If I'm in danger and the only way I can signal my "distress" is to place a flag upside down, I don't want the police delaying because they don't know if I'm in immediate "distress" or not.
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Is it a sign of "distress" as in Army code?. If so I had no idea, and it would be very immature for that guy to make that comparison; especially on Independance day.

Though I still think the police were a bit out of line taking it down, I would be upset if someone raised a Confederate flag, and I would want it taken down as well. The only problem with that is the police don't take Confederate flags down, even though their offensive, so what justifies them taking this flag down. Either all flag-based offenses are judged equally, or all are allowed. That's just my take on it!.
 
If anyone has an american flag upsidedown it is concidered a sign that they need help. I.E in the wilderness getting stuck and flying one. The only time I find the confederate flag offensive is when they are doing it the same height or higher than the american flag. Otherwise what is offensive about it? and no, I dont mean to spark a huge debate again even if it does happen :shrugs:
 
Ricky87 said:
Is it a sign of "distress" as in Army code?. If so I had no idea, and it would be very immature for that guy to make that comparison; especially on Independance day.

Though I still think the police were a bit out of line taking it down, I would be upset if someone raised a Confederate flag, and I would want it taken down as well. The only problem with that is the police don't take Confederate flags down, even though their offensive, so what justifies them taking this flag down. Either all flag-based offenses are judged equally, or all are allowed. That's just my take on it!.
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LOL... kinda funny that you mentioned "army code". When my dad was in the military, I used to read some of the "books" in his office. One of them mentioned flag upside down = distress.

As for the Confederate Flag... not the same thing... I find pornography offensive, but people still have the right to view it. I find using foul language offensive, but people still have the right to use it. I find stupidity offensive, but people have the right to make stupid decisions.

They probably could have got the guy for basically yelling "FIRE" when there wasn't one. It might be a stretch, but c'mon, there were other ways of dealing with this.

All that being said... this is NOT the "hill to die on" for the police department and I completely understand the need to "back off" if that is what they did.
 
Cornsnake124 said:
The only time I find the confederate flag offensive is when they are doing it the same height or higher than the american flag. Otherwise what is offensive about it? and no, I dont mean to spark a huge debate again even if it does happen :shrugs:
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No great debate here!. If people want to adorn themselves, or their property, with Confederate symbols than I guess it's their choice. My only point is that if a rule states flags particularly must follow a strict law based on offensiveness than the Confederate flag should be included. It is found offensive by many, as is the upside down flag, so if one is prohibited than so should be the other. Otherwise I don't see the right for law enforcement to choose, or get involved, and it makes this case unconstitutional. Therefore the flag-raiser in this case should be allowed to pursue legal action. That's all!.
 
Ricky87 said:
No great debate here!. If people want to adorn themselves, or their property, with Confederate symbols than I guess it's their choice. My only point is that if a rule states flags particularly must follow a strict law based on offensiveness than the Confederate flag should be included. It is found offensive by many, as is the upside down flag, so if one is prohibited than so should be the other. Otherwise I don't see the right for law enforcement to choose, or get involved, and it makes this case unconstitutional. Therefore the flag-raiser in this case should be allowed to pursue legal action. That's all!.
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Not sure about the laws, but the biggest difference I see in an American flag and a Confederate BATTLE Flag is that one is a recognized National sysmbol. To me there is a big difference in the two.

dc
 
The_Thunderer said:
LOL... kinda funny that you mentioned "army code". When my dad was in the military, I used to read some of the "books" in his office. One of them mentioned flag upside down = distress.
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I didn't realize it was symbolic for an actual code. I just thought the guy was just being mello-dramatic.

The_Thunderer said:
As for the Confederate Flag... not the same thing... I find pornography offensive, but people still have the right to view it. I find using foul language offensive, but people still have the right to use it. I find stupidity offensive, but people have the right to make stupid decisions.
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Agree, but all the same on principle it's similar. Two flags that have offensive connotations along with them, that should share equal by-laws for their public exposure, if any!.

The_Thunderer said:
They probably could have got the guy for basically yelling "FIRE" when there wasn't one. It might be a stretch, but c'mon, there were other ways of dealing with this.

All that being said... this is NOT the "hill to die on" for the police department and I completely understand the need to "back off" if that is what they did.
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Ya, the guy is petty in this, and the publicity he's getting for it is wrong, too. It's like in Soccer or Tennis when the crazy drunk people streak and then run onto the pitch to get attention. If ESPN didn't air those people then they would have no reason to do it, but because of the exposure it comes with, it's seen as an opportunity to be famous. This guy knew he could get pub for it, and the police fell for his trap by playing the role of the antagonists. If they just ignored him it wouldn't be an issue, but it became a statement, and each person wanted to out patriotize the next!.
 
Ricky87 said:
Agree, but all the same on principle it's similar. Two flags that have offensive connotations along with them, that should share equal by-laws for their public exposure, if any!
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Have to disagree with you here... The US Flag is a symbol of our country... HIS country. Flying it upside down is a signal requesting IMMEDIATE assistance... and anyone knowing so should/would rush to assist. His flying it as such was "unjustified"... although some were offended.

Flying a Confederate Flag, while offensive to some, can be someone's RIGHT. Lest we forget that the South was fighting for "State's Rights" amongst other things (and the North was fighting for other things and not necessarily "against" slavery). So, someone flying the Confederate flag may not necessarily be saying, "I believe in slavery". They may be saying, "I believe that States should have the right to determine their own destiny within the Union"... or they may simply be flying it because they're proud to be from the South.

Sometimes people read into things MUCH more than they should... As someone else said (can't look it up right now), if people would just EMPATHIZE with each other, and not take offense where none was given, then none of this would really matter... UNLESS someone just wants to get a "rise" out of someone else - and there's always that idiot in every crowd.

BTW, I will be going to an emergency room now (one of my girls has a "hurt" foot), so I won't be able to respond right away. LOL.
 
I was thinking pretty much the same as you guys.
It was somewhat a strange protest, probably futile and hopeless, and the biggest outcome of it would be to lose his neighbors' respect for making the scene on independence day..
But the forced removal wasn't right either, and actually gave it 'voice' now. Ah well..

Fred hope your daughter is OK..
 
tom e said:
I was thinking pretty much the same as you guys.
It was somewhat a strange protest, probably futile and hopeless, and the biggest outcome of it would be to lose his neighbors' respect for making the scene on independence day..
But the forced removal wasn't right either, and actually gave it 'voice' now. Ah well..

Fred hope your daughter is OK..
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Thanks, Tom! She's fine. Hurt her foot while horse-back riding the other day... and complained (crying - of course) TONIGHT at 10:00 pm about it. LOL. Sometimes kids are such joys... and other times, they just don't make any sense! LOL.

I guess all of us agree...
 
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Camby said:
Not sure about the laws, but the biggest difference I see in an American flag and a Confederate BATTLE Flag is that one is a recognized National sysmbol. To me there is a big difference in the two.

dc
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Well, technically, the Confederate battle flag was recognized by a certain section of the US as a symbol of their unity. It's just another piece of American history.
 
RobbiesCornField said:
Well, technically, the Confederate battle flag was recognized by a certain section of the US as a symbol of their unity. It's just another piece of American history.
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What section recognized it during that time (War of Northern Aggression/Civil War)? I woud be interested if you can point me somewhere to read, I always like researching this in more depth. There were three recogniized CSA flags and none were the "battle flag" design. The later two flags did incorporate the naval flag (that is actually what the "battle flag" truly is) into their design but they were not the square design most recognizeable today.

Thanks in advance

dc
 
tom e said:
I was thinking pretty much the same as you guys.
It was somewhat a strange protest, probably futile and hopeless, and the biggest outcome of it would be to lose his neighbors' respect for making the scene on independence day..
But the forced removal wasn't right either, and actually gave it 'voice' now. Ah well..

Fred hope your daughter is OK..
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I agree. It's terrible that anyone can turn this guy into a sympathetic figure, but that's just what law enforcement did in this case. Instead, the local neighborhood should have just made up big "I'm with stupid", give them to all his neighbors, and then have the arrow pointed at this guy. Would have dilluted his message, and wouldn't have violated his "civil" liberties. Still, regardless of what the Confederate flag means to some, I think we can safely all agree this guy's a complete Jacka$$.
 
Camby said:
What section recognized it during that time (War of Northern Aggression/Civil War)? I woud be interested if you can point me somewhere to read, I always like researching this in more depth. There were three recogniized CSA flags and none were the "battle flag" design. The later two flags did incorporate the naval flag (that is actually what the "battle flag" truly is) into their design but they were not the square design most recognizeable today.

Thanks in advance

dc
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The southern states recognized it as a battle flag, did they not? Even after 1863, the 2nd and 3rd national flags used that same original design (both the "Stainless Banner" and the "Blood Stained Banner"). Even though it was originally just the naval flag (battle flag, whatever you want to call it), it was still used in a time of war. I believe that's part of the reason people that still fly a confederate flag fly that specific one today. It's a war flag, for all intents and purposes, and America, as a nation, is at war. The south is just... shall we say... a bit more outspoken about it than most.
 
Ricky87 said:
Still, regardless of what the Confederate flag means to some, I think we can safely all agree this guy's a complete Jacka$$.
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It's clear he did this to get attention, but isn't that the point of a protest? What's the big deal, anyway? Am I seriously to believe that the concern in this thread is that in the middle of American suburbia there is worry that this will dilute being able to use a flag to signal distress? The notion that raising a flag upside down is an effective way to get help in an emergency situation in a city or town is laughable.

Also, why shouldn't we sympathize with him? The man's business venture is going under simply because of a licensing issue. Whether or not the group responsible for issuing liquor licenses is in the right, this really sucks for him.
 
I would really like to know what is offensive about the rebel flag. I only have a problem with it when the people are insulting the USA with all of there "kill them **** yankees." or "the south will rise again". if they are respectful to the US, I really dont have a problem. Here is a link to a site with all of the types of confederate flags: http://arebelflag.net/
 
Nova_C said:
It's clear he did this to get attention, but isn't that the point of a protest? What's the big deal, anyway? Am I seriously to believe that the concern in this thread is that in the middle of American suburbia there is worry that this will dilute being able to use a flag to signal distress? The notion that raising a flag upside down is an effective way to get help in an emergency situation in a city or town is laughable.

Also, why shouldn't we sympathize with him? The man's business venture is going under simply because of a licensing issue. Whether or not the group responsible for issuing liquor licenses is in the right, this really sucks for him.
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The problem is that he was dis-honoring our flag. Its not about the distress thing, its that he dis-honored the US. There. That answers your question. Oh, and I really don't give a crap if he goes under. I don't want people who dishonor MY country to succeed. Don't like that you can't get a liquor license? THAN GET OUT!!!
 
Cornsnake124 said:
I would really like to know what is offensive about the rebel flag. I only have a problem with it when the people are insulting the USA with all of there "kill them **** yankees." or "the south will rise again". if they are respectful to the US, I really dont have a problem. Here is a link to a site with all of the types of confederate flags: http://arebelflag.net/
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The Confederate flag is a symbol of southern slavery.

The problem is that he was dis-honoring our flag. Its not about the distress thing, its that he dis-honored the US. There. That answers your question. Oh, and I really don't give a crap if he goes under. I don't want people who dishonor MY country to succeed. Don't like that you can't get a liquor license? THAN GET OUT!!!
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Alrighty. I won't pretend to understand that kind of extremism, so I don't really have a rebuttal for you.
 
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