Unemployment in the US

[jpccusa]

Today the Senate voted down a bill that would have helped millions of unemployed workers.

Senate GOP again blocks bill extending jobless benefits, tax breaks

For the third time, Senate Republicans have blocked legislation to extend unemployment benefits through November and renew dozens of individual and business tax breaks.

The vote was 57-41, with 60 votes needed to end debate and advance the bill. All 40 Republicans and one Democrat, Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska, objected because the bill would have added $33 billion to the deficit.

The legislation cost of about $100 billion did not offset the additional unemployment insurance with other tax increases or spending cuts.

"We just can't keep kicking the can down the street and say, 'Oh, we'll take care of it later on. It'll be offset later,'" Sen. George Voinovich, a centrist Republican from Ohio who is retiring, told The Hill. "That's all we've been doing these last couple of years, and I'm fed up with it."

Sen. Bryon Dorgan, D-N.D., sees it differently: "Now, they're going to make their last stand on deficits by trying to take money away from the unemployed, in terms of extending benefits. That's sort of a bizarre priority as far as I'm concerned."

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada had scaled back the package, which was initially $140 billion and would have added $80 billion to the deficit.

 

[tsst]

A step in the right direction.

 

[wstphal]

The whole issue of "unemployment benefits" is a double-edged sword for several reasons. I am not sure whether the Senate did the right thing or not, but here are the issues as I see them:
1) The very same regular folks who currently depend on those benefits, and their children & grandchildren, are going to face profoundly higher taxes down the road because of the budget deficit & the ballooning of the total US government debt. No matter what anyone says about "taxing the rich" taxes WILL go up on blue collar & white collar Americans too. Even if the tax on the most wealthy is set at confiscatory levels, like 75% of all of their annual income, that will not bring in enough tax revenue.
2) There is good evidence that unemployment benefits prolong the time people are of work, because they don't have to take ANY job that comes along, so they are more motivated to hold out for what they consider a GOOD job. It's not clear to me if this is a good thing or a bad thing in the current circumstances, but it is a true thing.

I would have preferred to see the Senate Republicans force the Democrats to make offsets in other spending so that unemployment benefits could be extended WITHOUT increasing the budget deficit. I do think the benefits are necessary at the current time, and that they are more beneficial to getting the economy back on track than many so-called "stimulus" actions, which don't seem to be stimulating much AND are inflationary.

 

[tsst]

Good points Betsy.

To be clear I think there are very few places I would rather spend money than to help a hard working fellow American that is out of work because of foolish decisions made in DC. The problem I have is continually going further and further into debt for every whim in Washington. I can't understand the logic. If I were next to bankruptcy I would not continue to borrow to bail out banks and buy auto manufacturers and subsidized entire countries. I don't think the folks in DC are dumb so the only conclusion can be they just simply don't care about the average American. :shrugs:

 

[jpccusa]

Here is a Rachel Maddow Show clip from yesterday.

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

A step in the right direction.

I take it no one in your family has lost their job.

I take it you aren't struggling to figure out how you're going to pay for groceries now.

I take it you aren't having to sell cars that you need to get any jobs outside of biking distance, since your state can't afford to get a decent public transit system going.

Increasing the deficit is unfortunate, but it's either that or millions of people end up on the street. I'm sorry but this is one situation in which the immediate results are more important than the long-term. You never see any homeless people here in Phoenix in the summer, y'know why? Because if you have no reliable water or shelter in 110+*F heat, you DIE.

 

[tricksterpup]

Thats it, moving to England and living with Mike. he has cool snakes and they get to see Doctor Who before the US.

 

[starsevol]

Thats it, moving to England and living with Mike. he has cool snakes and they get to see Doctor Who before the US.

And all the accents over there are very sexy too! I have heard that hot dogs are much better in the US, but I would trade the hot dogs for first runs of Dr Who and those accents any day!

 

[starsevol]

I take it no one in your family has lost their job.

I take it you aren't struggling to figure out how you're going to pay for groceries now.

I take it you aren't having to sell cars that you need to get any jobs outside of biking distance, since your state can't afford to get a decent public transit system going.

Increasing the deficit is unfortunate, but it's either that or millions of people end up on the street. I'm sorry but this is one situation in which the immediate results are more important than the long-term. You never see any homeless people here in Phoenix in the summer, y'know why? Because if you have no reliable water or shelter in 110+*F heat, you DIE.

But if you increase the deficit now, you just might be condemning even more people to poverty. Someone has to pay it, and the bigger it is, the more people will suffer down the line.

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

But if you increase the deficit now, you just might be condemning even more people to poverty. Someone has to pay it, and the bigger it is, the more people will suffer down the line.

Well it sounds like this countries stuck between a rock and a hard place, doesn't it? And neither side in our narrow political ground has any ideas that will work for everyone.

 

[starsevol]

Well it sounds like this countries stuck between a rock and a hard place, doesn't it? And neither side in our narrow political ground has any ideas that will work for everyone.

With the national debt as it is RIGHT NOW, every single man, woman and child in this country owes over $30,000.
Do you have that kind of spare change handy? I sure don't...
and it's only going to get worse.

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

With the national debt as it is RIGHT NOW, every single man, woman and child in this country owes over $30,000.
Do you have that kind of spare change handy? I sure don't...
and it's only going to get worse.

Right, and I'm saying no one has a solution. So what do we do?

 

[ceduke]

Right, and I'm saying no one has a solution. So what do we do?

Clearly, bashing other peoples' opinions of what is and isn't a good move is the most effective solution.

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Clearly, bashing other peoples' opinions of what is and isn't a good move is the most effective solution.

Who's bashing?

 

[Lennycorn]

Right, and I'm saying no one has a solution. So what do we do?

Start learning chinese!!

 

[starsevol]

Right, and I'm saying no one has a solution. So what do we do?

Well, for one thing, we can curb spending. Like say, unemployment.....It is true that if you can be on unemployment for extended periods of time, you tend to be pickier about any position you take. If your needs are being met, why work at a job you don't "love"?
Personally, I think I can come up with better ways to curb spending, but at least this is SOMETHING.

 

[tsst]

I take it no one in your family has lost their job. ...

Yes, my brother has been out of work for a year, so I asked him to get a fair opinion. His response was (paraphrased but mostly his words) he doesn't want more charity he wants a job and driving this economy further down is not the way to improve life for everyone. He would rather take it on the chin now for the betterment of the future and his kids future.

I take it you aren't struggling to figure out how you're going to pay for groceries now.

Not at this moment but I absolutely have at points in my life. I also know many that are right now. Including friends and family. I have given up many things now to help them. My mother is on a fixed income so I bought a house for her which probably set back my retirement by years if not a decade. I have been housing and helping feed my brother for a year which has taken away rental income. Please don't assume that because I am not homeless that I have not shared in the burden of recent bad decisions made by our fed gov.

I take it you aren't having to sell cars that you need to get any jobs outside of biking distance, since your state can't afford to get a decent public transit system going.

Early in life I not only sold a car but remember having a yard sale and selling furniture and clothes and anything that would sell to get by. I was near bankruptcy. The difference is unlike our fed gov I cut costs, lived meager, worked harder, and I recovered and learned from it. I definitely didn't borrow my way into oblivion trying to maintain for the moment.

Increasing the deficit is unfortunate, but it's either that or millions of people end up on the street. I'm sorry but this is one situation in which the immediate results are more important than the long-term. You never see any homeless people here in Phoenix in the summer, y'know why? Because if you have no reliable water or shelter in 110+*F heat, you DIE.

I have seen homeless dead frozen along the street curb in Cleveland. You want to help the homeless tell your elected officials to stop buying banks and auto manufacturers and sending billions overseas and allowing jobs to leave this country so easily when the goods they made are just shipped back here to be sold. There are mountains of things that can be done but continuing down the PROVEN FAILED path of borrow borrow spend spend is NOT one of them. Immediate results at long term costs is almost never the correct answer. So we go billions more into debt to extend unemployment by a few months. At the end of that extension when we have done nothing to correct the problem and even more folks are out of work what would you propose then? Another short sighted bandaid and yet billions more added to the problem?

I have been on this earth for 45 years and have seen very bad times and very good times. That time and experience has also allowed me to lose my short sighted blinders. Something being seemingly good in the instant in noway equates to good in the long run or good for the whole.

If you were told you could prosper for a year but the price would be suffering for decades to follow OR you could suffer for a year but prosper for decades to follow, which would you choose? Now compound that by that decision not affecting just you but millions of people. :shrugs:

 

[ghosthousecorns]

About being picky about which job you take: If a person is a professional in their chosen field of expertise, it is a waste of their skill and talent to take just any old job at a Walmart or McDonalds. I was on unemployment for a long time, and unless you have been there you can't possibly know what it's like. But as someone with 20 years of experience, various certifications and related education I spent that time applying for jobs in my field. I knew I couldn't live on minimum wage and I needed to have the option of going to job interviews without calling in sick to some job that paid me meager wages. If you have a job, you pay taxes. If you lose that job that money is there to help you. In my state last time I heard unemployment is 10% I don't believe one out of every 10 people wants to mooch off the government, life has thrown them a curve ball just like it did to me.
Unemployed people need jobs where they can best contribute to the economy with their particular set of skills, and otherwise they need to be trained for jobs that are currently hiring like nurses, truck drivers etc.
I have worked for years and paid my taxes and I have NO problem with my tax dollars helping someone get back on their feet.

 

[wstphal]

About being picky about which job you take: If a person is a professional in their chosen field of expertise, it is a waste of their skill and talent to take just any old job at a Walmart or McDonalds. I was on unemployment for a long time, and unless you have been there you can't possibly know what it's like. But as someone with 20 years of experience, various certifications and related education I spent that time applying for jobs in my field. I knew I couldn't live on minimum wage and I needed to have the option of going to job interviews without calling in sick to some job that paid me meager wages. If you have a job, you pay taxes. If you lose that job that money is there to help you. In my state last time I heard unemployment is 10% I don't believe one out of every 10 people wants to mooch off the government, life has thrown them a curve ball just like it did to me.
Unemployed people need jobs where they can best contribute to the economy with their particular set of skills, and otherwise they need to be trained for jobs that are currently hiring like nurses, truck drivers etc.
I have worked for years and paid my taxes and I have NO problem with my tax dollars helping someone get back on their feet.

I agree that people with experience & education are not going to want to take a McJob. But if their previous "career" is in an industry that is GONE, they may need to take a McJob while they figure out what training to get or what direction to go. I don't think the unemployed are generally moochers. Some small number probably are, but it's NOT many.

I would have been very happy to see an extension to unemployment that did NOT increase the deficit get passed. The Congresscritters should have CUT SPENDING somewhere else, because unemployment benefits are actually, IMHO, one of the BEST spending things the government does. By definition, it goes to people who were working and who are looking (at least somewhat) for work. They paid taxes before, and they will pay taxes again once they get a job. So cut some of the earmarks and pork and spend that money on extending unemployment.

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Well, for one thing, we can curb spending. Like say, unemployment.....It is true that if you can be on unemployment for extended periods of time, you tend to be pickier about any position you take. If your needs are being met, why work at a job you don't "love"?
Personally, I think I can come up with better ways to curb spending, but at least this is SOMETHING.

Really?? That's true, it's a proven fact? I've been unemployed since January and I've gotten no unemployment due to my age, my mother has been unemployed since October of '08 and her unemployment just ran out. When she lost her job she had to move out of her very modest apartment, empty her 401K, and sell everything she had, and she still didn't have enough to find a place to stay and live. If my father (with whom she is divorced, and who both dislike each other) hadn't given her a home with him, she'd be on the streets or in Bufu, OK with her grandfather, where there's a population smaller than the kids in my high school and five times as old and there absolutely would be no work. Do you think we're sitting on the couch munching on chips and watching Maury? I don't understand people who think unemployed = sucking off the government's teat while doing nothing. Sure there are people like that, I've met them, but I can guarantee you, ESPECIALLY right now, that they are not the majority. She's applied to everywhere that her credentials meet and I'm applying to anywhere that will hire at my age, and now that she's run out of places to apply within her education range, she's starting to apply at the same entry level jobs I'm applying to. So don't sit there and tell me that because she's been on unemployment nearly two years that she's been sitting around enjoying it. She hates my father and she hates living here and she hates having nothing and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it until we both get jobs, ANY JOB. By the way she got about 250 a week on unemployment... that's 500 a month, NOWHERE NEAR enough to meet the needs of a family with five pets. If my dad wasn't bailing her and I out, we'd be on the streets.